Therapy is bs/wrong!

Just a note on this—you are new to this forum so you may not be aware of similar threads in the past. Personally I am hesitant to join a conversation with a title like yours because, even though I feel very differently about therapy, I don't want to seem like I'm invalidating your experience or saying you're doing something wrong. Some people are very firm in their opinions that "therapy is BS" and attempts to get them to shift their outlook are usually not wanted.

I like feileacan's question above about emotional involvement. What would emotional involvement look like to you? With my T I know that he cares about me, but his care doesn't look like the care I get from a friend or a family member. It is more restrained, and it is more about exploring where my feelings come from, rather than sharing them. Our contact is limited but I prefer it that way, it helps me to avoid the kind of obsessive longing you talk about. In any case we all have different expectations and desires, and I think therapy is a good place to explore what those are but very often we have to get our desires fulfilled elsewhere.

I am very open to having my mind changed and appreciate all answers also those that question or challange my perspective. Maybe 'therapy is bs' sounds like something a grumpy teenager would say after they had a disappointing experience without any attempt at self reflection. I've done a lot of reflecting mostly by myself but also in therapy and have hit a wall.

My point is that even though logically i understand that the care I get from T is different to the one of a friend or family emotionally I have a hard tome acceping it. To me this is a person that i come to seek help from (the way i would with a friend). Our interaction is restricted by time but also mostly by a very consious decision to make it about me. No matter what my story is the therapist will react in a generic empathic manner. So does it even matter what i tell them? Does my story matter? This i think is what I call emotional involvement - for my story to matter beyond the generic techniques, the generic emapathy, understanding, for it to matter on a humanly level.

I think this is what I was trying so say in the previous post. What to a patient feels so authentic and special is a generic learned response even if it is authethic. I am not saying therapist dont care just not in a way thats personal

A different perspective maybe:

I guess I don't want a therapist to react personally, like a friend or family member. I need their ability to stay objective and a bit impersonal because as soon as a person becomes "personal" to me, I start protecting them. I start monitoring what I tell them. I start reading too much into their every reaction.

With a therapist, the safety is in that objectivity and professional distance. That doesn't mean they don't care; I know mine did, very much so. But, I also knew they could handle whatever I needed to tell them without becoming personally affected or involved to a point of not being able to be there for me. They knew how to keep themselves objective enough to be completely there for me so that my therapy was really all about my needs. If they were "personal", they would be no more help to me than a friend who could get tired of me, want me to put my own stuff aside to help them deal with their own, become overwhelmed by my stuff, get angry with me, hurt by my story, etc., etc. That's why I needed a therapist; no one individual in my personal life could offer that kind of emotional safety for me and my stuff.

I think this is where you have to know yourself. We all have things we can live with in relationships and things we can’t, and each person has different needs.

For me, this wasn’t something I could get over. I tried riding with the feelings for many years, hoping the feelings would wane. I tried talking about it to my therapist. I tried expanding my social network. Ultimately, I decided that I couldn’t be around someone who elicited these type of feelings out of me. For me, it was detrimental to my well being, I lost sight of my goals and dreams, and obsessively spun with no end in sight. After a childhood of feeling special to no one, this wasn’t a scenario I was willing to play out again in adulthood.

So many valid points in what you just said.
I like how you say they can handle everything without getting personally affected.
Maybe this is why being uninvolved works.
Still this creates a distance that hurts me as a patient because my guard is down and i do get personally affected on the deepest level. I naturally want this relationship to be mutual.

I see what you mean, but it’s the same process if you go see a doctor. You see a doctor when something is off physically with your body. They treat you. A therapist is the same thing, they treat you when something is off with you mentally. One client after another. Just like a doctor has one patient after another. There is supposed to be some kind of connection/rapport in therapy. Because it’s a working of the minds, it’s more emotional than
other physical body issues. Because so many people are starved for connection and to be understood, they crave it and want more from their therapist. It’s our job as clients to realize that this connection/care is confined to the room only so that we can keep them at sort of a distance and not too close to our heart. And it’s real. Most therapists really do genuinely care about their clients. But it has many strict limitations. Also, just because the tangible care is confined to the room, doesn’t mean they don’t care when they are out of the room. Many therapists spend their drive home thinking about their clients and little pop up thoughts throughout their week. I will agree with you though, some clients are better off without therapy, especially if they aren’t able to keep a therapist at arms length and cope with the strict limitations to the relationship.

'Share your most intimats thoughts with me but keep me at arms length.' This is the paradox to me. This is when it doesn't add up and this unhealthy patterns develop.

Hi Forgetmetnot,

Thank you for posting this thread! It is amazing. You nailed a lot of key topics when it comes the inherent power imbalance found in the therapeutic setting. Your thoughts and feelings are wholly valid and you are NOT alone in feeling the way you do! I can empathize GREATLY with you.

Therapy is supposed to be a safe place, but it is not. Period.

For those who have a positive bias towards therapy, I am NOT saying that therapy CANNOT be safe, I am saying that the entire construct of therapy is in fact unsafe and will remain unsafe so long as there is an inherent power imbalance and lack of accountability. (I am NOT saying that ALL therapist will take advantage of this power imbalance, but that there is opportunity to do so if a therapist chooses to do it. (Scary) What makes therapy inherently unsafe is that a therapist only needs to CHOOSE to be abusive, in which case the system is also designed to protect the professional, not the patient).

The power imbalances found in therapy are multi-faceted: two of which are legal power imbalances and psychological / emotional power imbalances.

You've alluded to the emotional power imbalance, which carries immense risk for further harm and exploitation. As has already been mentioned: the therapeutic alliance is one sided - which creates a perfect environment for POTENTIAL abuse. (Once again, for those who are biased towards therapy, I am not making sweeping generalizations - it is simply a FACT that a therapist CAN abuse if they should choose to do so AND they can get away with it quite easily).

Look at any abusive relationship and usually there are power imbalances and lack of accountability. Any human being is capable of doing bad things provided they are given the right prerequisites. Even ethical therapists can become abusive if their behavior isn't kept in check. That is why the industry baffles me.

Considering the VAST amounts of therapists who sexually abuse clients (10 - 13% of therapists ADMIT to sexual relations with clients), I would argue that changes need to be made and that the industry needs IMMENSE investigation. Policy must change and so does legislation.

As far as your plight goes, I believe there are therapists out there who can offer you what you need, however, those gems are hard to find. It is so incredibly disheartening when things go south in a therapeutic relationship, especially for the client. When a client opens up, they also let down their guard and lower their boundaries - which makes them vulnerable and brings about all kinds of positive emotions towards a therapist; attachment, transferences, etc. What blows my mind is that despite the fact MANY people are harmed by therapy, and that the foundation of knowledge for which psychology is based is young and constantly changing - somehow they deem that what they do is ethical... A lot of what happens in therapy is not ethical. I agree with others on this.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

Then how come people can’t just share their most intimat thoughts with family or friends instead of seeking out a therapist? Probably because fear of rejection, judgement or being misunderstood. Things that a therapist is trained not to do to their clients. If you share a deep thought to a therapist, MOST of them aren’t going to curl their lip at you in disgust, ghost you or say cruel things. So therapists are trained to be empathetic while remaining objective. Paradox, yes. But that’s what makes therapy successful. I love my therapist and care for him a great deal. But I have guarded my heart against him and am consistently reminding myself about the dynamic of therapist/client relationship to keep from feeling to close to him and seek similar connections outside of therapy. One of the goals of therapy is to take the connection and any progress in the therapy room and apply it to real life. For example, I have a lot of issues with attachment. My therapist and I are starting to form one. I can say whatever I want and I know he isn’t going to judge me or ghost me. If he does judge me, we can safely and securely talk it through. Through experiencing this “practice” attachment, I can then feel more confident to apply it to my real life attachments because I got to work out many kinks in the therapy room that were holding me back in real life.

For me it wouldn't be useful to be in therapy to change my perspective on therapy. I'm not in therapy for therapy. I'm in therapy to change myself towards who and what I want for myself. What I think about therapy is irrelevant to me.

Even if you've tried to have a conversation about your therapy with your T, I'm not sure why you can't try again. As another poster said, you can say that you feel your T is indifferent or emotionally uninvolved and a conversation can go from there. But you have to be honest about what you think and feel.

For me, I consider my T my equal. I see him as helpful to whatever I'm doing in therapy but he is not in my real life in the sense that this is a mutual relationship. But if I thought he was indifferent to whatever I brought to therapy I would quit.

For me, I am looking inward at change. Not at my T and what he's supposed to be or not be. I'm focused on myself, not what's wrong with him or therapy. I'm not sure how this inquiry you are on is useful to you. If this is just a thread about how terrible therapy is as an institution, carry on.

I also want to add that if a therapist was able to remain objective while NOT keeping their client at arms length, they would experience major burn out. Imagine seeing several clients, hearing about pain and problems over and over again but also caring about them to the extent that they would a friend or family member. That would be unattainable for them. It’s not humanly possible. The arms length is for your benefit as well as theirs. Even though I’m sure it doesn’t seem like a benefit to you, which I do understand your feelings about it. If boundaries of therapy and the limitations are recognized and accepted, therapy can be incredibly helpful. It is hard work though to keep each other at arms length and takes a lot of monitoring. It’s not easy for the therapist either, by the way. They have to monitor those types of feelings within themselves as well.

Everything the therapist does is for their own benefit. Their job is not that hard. They just sit there.

I’m sorry you feel that way. I have had 2 therapists who have cried over things that have happened to me and have grinned ear to ear when I’ve had breakthroughs. Those moments were definitely not for them, they were for me. Even though there are many things in place to protect themselves, many of them have at least a little bit of emotional investment their clients. I’m sorry you’ve had the opposite experiences with therapists, but not all of them are in it to just sit there and listen. A lot of them actually try to lean in and genuinely help.

I dont necessarily think therapy is a good place to practice relationships because its so counterintuitive.
I am also not saying thats its impossible to keep a healthy distance. I am saying that for someone who struggles with relationships its difficult to keep emotional bounderies and guard. Therapy is created in a way that enocourages dependency and its easier to avoid it for those who are aware of the dynamic and more stable. You say you have guarded your heart because you knew this could potentially happen. What about those who start therapy and have no idea what to expect?
I really value my therapist and think she has been ethical, helpful and objectively empathic but there is something very unfair in it for me. The neediness isn't exposed as much in real life relationships because the exist on equal terms.

I get what you’re saying, I really do. I didn’t know before going into therapy that these feelings would occur. It was something I learned in the process and learned how therapy works. I went into it blind. But it’s something to accept or reject. I find that the people who reject the way therapy is designed and keep the thinking/wishing for something different, stay stuck dwelling about the client/therapist relationship. Those who accept the way it’s designed can move on and work on goals to bring out in real life. You have a neediness in therapy because something in your real life is lacking. Is it nurture, love, deep connection or being understood and really seen? If you have those things in real life, you aren’t going to be so needy in therapy because you can get them from real from people outside of therapy. You will have fulfillment. Therapy can help you achieve those things in your real life through the “practice” run that therapy offers.

Or. . .maybe therapy isn't designed well for those of us for whom it doesn't work. I tried it, and trusted and accepted it on and off for about 45 years. But then I ran into roadblocks and got hurt by the process.

Great, if the way it's designed works for you. But I don't think that it's an act of personal choice or will or what-have-you on the part of the client if it DOESN'T work. I think therapy is a design that hurts and entraps and does not work well for some people. And I think that's on the profession, to learn more about the people for whom therapy doesn't work. But since it's not likely that they are going to do that without some pressure, I'm glad there is PC so people with bad experiences can talk about them, find some commonalities, and support each other. Because I've come to the conclusion nobody else is likely to.

I am not on a quest to prove therapy is wrong nor am I here to dispute every argument that proves otherwise. I am here to learn and share my experience. This is not something that I just woke up feeling, those thoughts and observations have been there for a while and even though I didn't contribute here before I have been reading this forum for a while. Only by coming here did I realise that what I go through isn't unique or unusual. Its also not a norm, its in no way more valid that the experience of those who find therapy helpful. I think those who don't have strong relationship and healthy attachment style will struggle with the type of issues I describe. You might be in a place where looking inwardly doesn't hurt and cause discomfort or where those interpersonal needs are met elsewhere.
My perspective has already been massively broaded by each and every response to this thread and this is very valuable. I am still here to present my understanding or outlook and not convince anyone that what I believe is right. This is the way I experience it, something that leaves me dissatisified and I am just exploring the topic Maybe initially it sounds like a rant but that was not my intention. Sorry if you my post hostile.

Upfront disclaimer: I'm sharing this from a place of kindness, gentleness, and calm.

It's great that we have this forum on PC where we can express our feelings. I "joined" PC almost 3 years ago (this month is my anniversary), and I frankly had to disconnect from it for a long while because I wasn't in a place of mental and physical strength to filter out what I did and didn't read and engage in. I came back a couple of weeks ago because I finally feel like I can keep myself in check.

That being said, I'm writing this as my last comment on this thread, and I'm going to stop following it because it's taking me back to place where I'm feeling overwhelmed and sorrowful.

I don't believe it is appropriate or fair for anyone to make a provocative and seemingly fact-based statement about therapy - positive or negative. It is no more helpful to state, "Therapy is the one and only cure for all emotional and "mental health" issues," than it is to state, "Therapy is 100% harmful and reprehensible for all humans."

It is clearly represented within this thread and in many others on PC that therapy is helpful to some people, detrimental to others, and just mediocre to others. Therapists are human beings in the literal sense, therefore, there are many, many different shades of therapists. I pose to this "group" that we keep the reality that our opinions and personal experiences are our own. It's terrific that we are able to share them and discuss them, but...

I personally don't find it helpful in any way to make statements that come across like facts, on a forum that is comprised of some of the most vulnerable and susceptible people corralled in one place, when those statements are opinions and/or an outlet for personal experience. I will not state that therapy helps 100% of humans 100% of the time, just because I've had a great experience with it. I gently implore that in the same spirit, we watch the language around statements that are equivalent to "Therapy is 100% horrible to 100% of humans in all circumstances."

I wish only good things for each of you, and maybe I'll see ya round on other threads!

I didn't say or find your post hostile, but I'm just not sure I can be helpful if my experience does not match yours. I'm not interested in torturing anyone with my opinion. I was more trying to figure out whether I should just shove off this thread or whether I had anything useful to say to you. I've got no dog in the fight about what you think about therapy and wish you well with whatever you choose to do.