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Forgetmenot07
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Default May 17, 2019 at 06:11 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Nik87 View Post
I get what you’re saying, I really do. I didn’t know before going into therapy that these feelings would occur. It was something I learned in the process and learned how therapy works. I went into it blind. But it’s something to accept or reject. I find that the people who reject the way therapy is designed and keep the thinking/wishing for something different, stay stuck dwelling about the client/therapist relationship. Those who accept the way it’s designed can move on and work on goals to bring out in real life. You have a neediness in therapy because something in your real life is lacking. Is it nurture, love, deep connection or being understood and really seen? If you have those things in real life, you aren’t going to be so needy in therapy because you can get them from real from people outside of therapy. You will have fulfillment. Therapy can help you achieve those things in your real life through the “practice” run that therapy offers.
Yes, I know that neediness is related to lack of deep connections, or not feeling understood but I believe that a lot of people go to therapy in similar position. Maybe this post will help me accept the limitations of the therapeutic design and see why they are helpful and neccesary. This is definately something I will ask my T. about. I think it would mean a lot to me if she explained the bounderies herself. Maybe because the bounderies are so unclear in my head and there is so much space for missinterpratation I create this 'fantasy world'
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Default May 17, 2019 at 06:23 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by speckofdust View Post
Upfront disclaimer: I'm sharing this from a place of kindness, gentleness, and calm.

It's great that we have this forum on PC where we can express our feelings. I "joined" PC almost 3 years ago (this month is my anniversary), and I frankly had to disconnect from it for a long while because I wasn't in a place of mental and physical strength to filter out what I did and didn't read and engage in. I came back a couple of weeks ago because I finally feel like I can keep myself in check.

That being said, I'm writing this as my last comment on this thread, and I'm going to stop following it because it's taking me back to place where I'm feeling overwhelmed and sorrowful.

I don't believe it is appropriate or fair for anyone to make a provocative and seemingly fact-based statement about therapy - positive or negative. It is no more helpful to state, "Therapy is the one and only cure for all emotional and "mental health" issues," than it is to state, "Therapy is 100% harmful and reprehensible for all humans."

It is clearly represented within this thread and in many others on PC that therapy is helpful to some people, detrimental to others, and just mediocre to others. Therapists are human beings in the literal sense, therefore, there are many, many different shades of therapists. I pose to this "group" that we keep the reality that our opinions and personal experiences are our own. It's terrific that we are able to share them and discuss them, but...

I personally don't find it helpful in any way to make statements that come across like facts, on a forum that is comprised of some of the most vulnerable and susceptible people corralled in one place, when those statements are opinions and/or an outlet for personal experience. I will not state that therapy helps 100% of humans 100% of the time, just because I've had a great experience with it. I gently implore that in the same spirit, we watch the language around statements that are equivalent to "Therapy is 100% horrible to 100% of humans in all circumstances."

I wish only good things for each of you, and maybe I'll see ya round on other threads!
I don't know if you refer to me but I really wasn't trying to be provocative and none of it are fact-based statements. Maybe its an unskillful way of phrasing things (english is my 2nd language) and the unfortunate eye-cathing title that makes you feel that way.
Thanks for your contribution and sorry if the upsets you.
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Default May 17, 2019 at 06:30 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by speckofdust View Post

I don't believe it is appropriate or fair for anyone to make a provocative and seemingly fact-based statement about therapy - positive or negative. It is no more helpful to state, "Therapy is the one and only cure for all emotional and "mental health" issues," than it is to state, "Therapy is 100% harmful and reprehensible for all humans."
I think someone once said

"Psychotherapy is the condition for which it purports to be the treatment"

Can someone confirm or correct this quote ?
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Default May 17, 2019 at 07:27 PM
  #84
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You see a doctor when something is off physically with your body. They treat you. A therapist is the same thing, they treat you when something is off with you mentally. One client after another. Just like a doctor has one patient after another.
I don't consider what therapists do to be treatment. Not by any stretch. The fact that therapists use medical language like "diagnosis" indicates collective delusion. It's much more of a faith-based practice, like religion. I don't see doctor-patient relationships as healthy either. They are similarly infantilizing and most doctors are nut-jobs with god complex. And most medical care is poisonous and insane.

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Because so many people are starved for connection and to be understood, they crave it and want more from their therapist.
Yes seems so, which brings us back to the prostitution analogy.
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Default May 17, 2019 at 07:43 PM
  #85
Am I the only person who finds the prostitution analogy ofensive? I am by far not easily offended but as somebody who has suffered significant sexual abuse comparing therapy to something often routed in sexual abuse. Therapy like anything can be abusive but it us not the norm.

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Default May 17, 2019 at 08:01 PM
  #86
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Am I the only person who finds the prostitution analogy ofensive? I am by far not easily offended but as somebody who has suffered significant sexual abuse comparing therapy to is often routed in sexual abuse. Therapy like anything can be abusive but it us not the norm.
No, you are not alone. Not thrilled with it being compared to rape either. Both are insensitive metaphors.
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Default May 17, 2019 at 08:10 PM
  #87
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Everything the therapist does is for their own benefit. Their job is not that hard. They just sit there.
If a client wants a therapist to do nothing more than that then that is what they do. Other clients need more than that and often receive it.

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Default May 17, 2019 at 08:24 PM
  #88
My therapy was bunkum toward my goals, but not because one of them love-bombed in eye-dropper doses.

Rather my therapists either promised, implied or allowed me to believe their methods would be transformative. (One even snarled "don't you want to stay in therapy to find out why you don't have any friends," when I indeed had friends.) I was a nerdy younger woman who was deferential, childlike and needy long after my childhood expiration date.

Therapy took me in exactly the wrong direction. It habituated subordination to false authority. It reinforced my fears that others had an it-factor, a life wisdom to which I couldn't possibly achieve. It encouraged my emotional striptease before those who exploited it. And it rewarded me for sorrows and victimhood.

It did NOT teach me more social ease or a sense of competence or equality, in fact, just the opposite. Relating to others like I did therapists--expecting comfort for all my suffering and sorrows--did not make me a friend magnet. For a while I lived in a therapy pseudo-world and lost important friends during that period.

Eventually I left, only set back by therapy. I was capable of change, and over years I did change internally and externally, thanks to accomplishments and feedback. But sniffling in a room for therapists was the wrong direction.

My worst experience was at the hands of bullying co-therapists. But in all cases, therapy was regressive, destructive and absolutely wrong for me. I reviewed this years later in my blog below. I can't speak for anyone else, but I do think it important to monitor reactions and be aware therapy consumers.
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Default May 17, 2019 at 08:29 PM
  #89
It's a common analogy (prostitution). Google shows many hits.

I think the transaction is similar. Both involve purchased intimacy. One is emotional, the other physical.

I do think therapy has inherently abusive elements. I had one therapist ask if she abused me (emotionally) when the s**t hit the fan. Many therapy relationships i've read about seem abusive.

I used the emotional rape metaphor in reference to my therapy.
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Default May 18, 2019 at 05:38 AM
  #90
Yes, this:

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Originally Posted by missbella View Post
. . .
Therapy took me in exactly the wrong direction. It habituated subordination to false authority. . . it rewarded me for sorrows and victimhood.

It did NOT teach me more social ease or a sense of competence or equality, in fact, just the opposite. Relating to others like I did therapists--expecting comfort for all my suffering and sorrows--did not make me a friend magnet. . .
Maybe it's not everybody's experience but it seems clear from this forum that it is the experience of quite a few people.
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Default May 18, 2019 at 06:07 AM
  #91
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If a client wants a therapist to do nothing more than that then that is what they do. Other clients need more than that and often receive it.
Yup this was my session yesterday. He sat there with nothing to really say or help me. My week was about taking care of my husband who had surgery to remove cancerous tumors in his bladder. It was a rough scary week for me and this session was suppose to be a reprieve and self care for me but turned out to be awkward to sit there in mostly silence. It made me feel I was very alone. I should not have relied so heavily on this appointment to help me deal with my husbands cancer treatment.

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When a child’s emotional needs are not met and a child is repeatedly hurt and abused, this deeply and profoundly affects the child’s development. Wanting those unmet childhood needs in adulthood. Looking for safety, protection, being cherished and loved can often be normal unmet needs in childhood, and the survivor searches for these in other adults. This can be where survivors search for mother and father figures. Transference issues in counseling can occur and this is normal for childhood abuse survivors.
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Question May 18, 2019 at 06:08 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by BudFox View Post
It's a common analogy (prostitution). Google shows many hits.

I think the transaction is similar. Both involve purchased intimacy. One is emotional, the other physical.

I do think therapy has inherently abusive elements. I had one therapist ask if she abused me (emotionally) when the s**t hit the fan. Many therapy relationships i've read about seem abusive.

I used the emotional rape metaphor in reference to my therapy.
Your therapy may have been abusive and the analogies may describe your therapy , to say the industry as s whole is like prostitution is where I have issues.

It may be all over the internet but this forum has many people who are using therapy with good results to heal from abuse not yo be told their therapy equated to abuse.

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Default May 18, 2019 at 06:19 AM
  #93
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Am I the only person who finds the prostitution analogy ofensive? I am by far not easily offended but as somebody who has suffered significant sexual abuse comparing therapy to something often routed in sexual abuse. Therapy like anything can be abusive but it us not the norm.
Yes, I find the analogy offensive as well as untrue in my experience. But if it feels that way to people, that's the way they feel. Some people describe heterosexual marriage as analogous to prostitution as well, especially in a more traditional relationship of stay at home mother and working father. So understanding that prostitution to some people means anything related to intimacy and an economic arrangement makes my offense more about me.

But, if I understand what you are saying, I also relate to the idea that therapy abuse that is not in fact sexual is like rape, is also painful to hear. As a survivor of CSA by the people who were supposed to nurture me, I know that sexual abuse is a particular kind of humiliation unlike anything else. I feel no need to say X is worse than Y or Z or diminish the painful experience of the other, but CSA is not the same thing as abuse by a therapist (assuming no sexual exploitation). Otherwise I think there are many parallels in t The experience of therapist sexual exploitation and CSA, but that's not what most people talk about when they speak of experiences of therapy abuse. I have found reading the accounts of therapist sexual abuse really helpful to me, because understanding that an adult could be exploited by someone they trusted, then I knew in a deeper way that my resources as a child victim were not enough to stop it. It helped me let myself off the hook.
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Default May 18, 2019 at 06:22 AM
  #94
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Yup this was my session yesterday. He sat there with nothing to really say or help me. My week was about taking care of my husband who had surgery to remove cancerous tumors in his bladder. It was a rough scary week for me and this session was suppose to be a reprieve and self care for me but turned out to be awkward to sit there in mostly silence. It made me feel I was very alone. I should not have relied so heavily on this appointment to help me deal with my husbands cancer treatment.
I can relate to this. I also have relied so much on an appointment when things were not ok only to feel really alone with what I brought there. Would it be different if it was a family member or friend? I don't think so but I have this false hope of therapy that leaves me dissapointed. I think they key to good therapy is to understand the nature of the relationship and have a very honest rapport with the T.
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Default May 18, 2019 at 07:31 AM
  #95
I never developed dependency on my therapists but I am not prone to that in everyday life either, just my personality. I did get hooked on the concepts and mental analyses though, it became excessive mentally, and not much more than a mostly useless (and expensive) distraction. That's why I stopped therapy after ~2 years of experimenting with it, with two Ts. People often claim that therapy is a great place to explore the self and patterns of behavior but, for me, I can easily get the same and much better from everyday life, situations, relationships. Just live, observe, think about it - it is pretty easy for me to do on my own and I have a couple friends who are similarly interested, introspective, unbiased/tolerant enough, and happy to discuss these things seemingly endlessly... plus are empathetic and supportive on top. For free. It is also way more interesting and informative for me to do it in a mutual way. Especially one of my friends is like that and we have been doing it for years now, interacting quite frequently, without any painful emotional dependency. Therapy was extremely limited and distorted compared to that. I even find the discussions on message boards like this much more illuminating than getting feedback from only one person, a Ts feedback is usually much more limited and manipulated, the way I see it. I do not discount the positive experiences of many people with therapy but, for me, it had minuscule benefit.
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Default May 18, 2019 at 08:04 AM
  #96
I personally don't find the prostitution analogy very accurate, more that therapy is a professional service that is very hit-and-miss. I think the sum of experiences reported on this forum shows just that even though I do believe it is more loaded with negative experiences here than the larger picture. But most people I have ever asked in everyday life about their experiences with therapy tend to say either that it helped just a little, or that it never revealed anything they did not know already. I think the "evidence" published is also usually quite biased because there is no way of really telling how much therapy actually contributed to someone's improvement - people usually do a few things and already ruminate on the nature of the issues when they decide something is not working right and they seek help. Of course talking to someone regularly about our issues can be helpful, we are a social species. But whether a therapist does more than decent, reliable people can provide... that is the very hit-and-miss part. Definitely more chance that it will provide something in cases where the client is very isolated and/or struggles with establishing and maintaining meaningful relationships in everyday life, because the only effort they need to invest to have it is paying and going to appointments. But, as many stories shared here also demonstrate, it can also create excessive and harmful dependency in those cases especially.

As to the dynamic of increasing and then dissipating dependency many people seem to experience in therapy, I am not sure it is specific to therapy at all. Normal close relationships tend to have similar dynamic: much more intense and emotionally engaging in the beginning, then become more routine and habitual and less emotionally clouded. If this is useful to experience in therapy, great. But claiming that it is due to some "magic" training and ability Ts have... blah.
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Default May 18, 2019 at 08:07 AM
  #97
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. . .
But, if I understand what you are saying, I also relate to the idea that therapy abuse that is not in fact sexual is like rape, is also painful to hear. As a survivor of CSA by the people who were supposed to nurture me, I know that sexual abuse is a particular kind of humiliation unlike anything else. I feel no need to say X is worse than Y or Z or diminish the painful experience of the other, but CSA is not the same thing as abuse by a therapist (assuming no sexual exploitation). Otherwise I think there are many parallels in t The experience of therapist sexual exploitation and CSA, but that's not what most people talk about when they speak of experiences of therapy abuse. I have found reading the accounts of therapist sexual abuse really helpful to me, because understanding that an adult could be exploited by someone they trusted, then I knew in a deeper way that my resources as a child victim were not enough to stop it. It helped me let myself off the hook.
For me, as best I understand it currently, therapy exploited deficiencies in my sense of self that I did not know or understand and that I went into therapy with. If therapy had just helped those things come out so that I could learn and understand, and help build and grow a competent sense of self, or something -- that's what I understood therapy is "designed" to do.

But, far more often, therapists (unconsciously?, due to their own issues?) exploited my compliant, authority-respecting, people-pleasing, co-dependent ways, to advantage their own egos. A form of narcissistic abuse, in today's psychology language. Or at least exploitation. Which I did not understand, because of the deficiencies I went into therapy with.

Yes, I participated. Unconsciously, I built up the therapists' egos, so they would build up mine. And not reject me. Like clients who participate in sexual exploitation for their own, perhaps unknown, unconscious reasons.. Both are violations of the sense of self by people who "should" know better. I didn't know what was going on, couldn't know what was going on because of the deficiencies I went into therapy with. Until, finally, my intellect got some clues from reading about other people's experiences on here.
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Default May 18, 2019 at 08:29 AM
  #98
These references skirt far too close to the recent "consensual rape" reference, and are inaccurate, offensive, and misplaced on a mental health forum full of members who have experienced actual rape and sexual exploitation in their lives. The lack of forethought and respect for those experiences in perverting those references hyperbolically for effect in making a point about therapy is disappointing. These issues can be discussed frankly and honestly without resorting to minimizing others' trauma, however unintended. Sometimes being aware of how one's own language can unintentionally be painful to others and then consciously changing that language is an act of respect and kindness toward others.
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Default May 18, 2019 at 09:35 AM
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These references skirt far too close to the recent "consensual rape" reference, and are inaccurate, offensive, and misplaced on a mental health forum full of members who have experienced actual rape and sexual exploitation in their lives. The lack of forethought and respect for those experiences in perverting those references hyperbolically for effect in making a point about therapy is disappointing. These issues can be discussed frankly and honestly without resorting to minimizing others' trauma, however unintended. Sometimes being aware of how one's own language can unintentionally be painful to others and then consciously changing that language is an act of respect and kindness toward others.
I don't know if it is possible to foresee those reactions by everyone, especially people who have never experienced similar things. It likely would just never occur in the mind of many people that merely making analogies for the sake of expressing an opinion could be offensive and thus expecting everyone to walk on eggshells is not very likely to happen, especially on a public anonymous forum. I could relate it to something like comparing therapy to addiction. I experienced a very serious addiction in the past and it was, hands down, the most difficult thing in my life to resolve it. And many people without direct experience do not understand addiction at all, that's in part why there is still so much stigma associated with it. But I do find the analogies (therapy-addiction) quite accurate and useful even if I am not that comfortable with the notion that I am prone to it on a larger scale. I think it can be helpful to remember this is an online forum, not therapy session or a community of friends/family.
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Default May 18, 2019 at 09:51 AM
  #100
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Yup this was my session yesterday. He sat there with nothing to really say or help me. My week was about taking care of my husband who had surgery to remove cancerous tumors in his bladder. It was a rough scary week for me and this session was suppose to be a reprieve and self care for me but turned out to be awkward to sit there in mostly silence. It made me feel I was very alone. I should not have relied so heavily on this appointment to help me deal with my husbands cancer treatment.
I am sorry to hear it was not as useful as it could have been.
For me, my person's cancer and all that surrounded it was the one area where the therapist was not a complete disaster. All I required was a place where I did not have to deal with/take care of anyone else or their response to her cancer/treatments/surgeries or anyone else's response to my responses about it etc. I did not have to check myself to be nice or take care of or help anyone else deal with it for that one period of time. I really don't recall the therapist doing anything except sit there - but that whole period of time is still so blurry in a lot of ways.

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