protecting myself

it always surprises me how fast life can go from good to bad and how slowly it takes to move back again. i'm not so dumb as to think it is never good, it has its moments.. but why moments and not hours or days?

i got some bad news tonight and i'm climbing the walls again. My stomach is hurting so bad. i swear stress is going to kill me someday. i dont know what to do. i really dont. Badchoices and more bad choices.

it's gotten so bad that i dont even cry when this stuff happens... i just go kind of numb. i start to panic and i just want it to be over, any way possible.

i left a message for T... explained it all in a long rambling message. Then i feel bad for being so all over the place in the message, like why didn't i just spit it out and stop wasting his time? i asked him to call but i feel guilty because he will have spent all that time listening to my long message.

it really counts that i trust him now.. it really truly does.. i have choices to make that require it. It's a leap of faith and that faith is in him and myself... but it's the two of us, i need him to be able to do this and in order for it to help or work at all now is the time i need to trust him.

somebody tell me how to fast track trust? i feel like i am standing at the open door of an airplane and i have to decide whether to jump or not... T is standing with me and tells me it's ok to jump, the parachute will open and he will be there too... but in all honesty.. how many of you could let go and jump?

i need to be able to trust him if i am really going to jump.. i have to believe he is right about that parachute. There isn't anyway to know.

what am i supposed to do?

I'm not sure how long you've been seeing your t for, so I'm not sure if this will help or not. But I know that it was only after I'd been seeing my t for like 2 years and he pointed out to me that he'd remained committed to me all this time and was consistent the whole time and cared that whole time and was pleased to see me every time and whatnot, that I was finally able to think about trusting him. He needed to make the implicit explicit because the implicit message was totally foreign to me and I needed it pointed out.

I also tend to only feel like the most recent time I saw him is the sum of all our experiences, when it's not. I really needed to be shown that I should be taking the sum of all our visits into consideration.

These weren't the sole builders of trust, but they did help me a lot. I hope there's something there you can use.

MzJello, I looked at how long I was on my own and able to "survive" because of all my symptoms and defenses I'd chosen. I could shut up tighter than an oyster in no time flat. So, when I wanted to trust my T, I first realized that if what my T was saying didn't work or wasn't true or something, then my own defenses would work like they've always worked. So, I started to get a bit braver and try some things out and always noted that the T's ideas worked too and made me feel better than even my own.

Hi Jello, it sounds so hard for you right now and that you really want to trust but are not able to quite yet.

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MzJelloFluff said:
somebody tell me how to fast track trust?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">I have two specific suggestions, but am not sure if either will fit your situation.

1) Examine the question, what would it look like if you trusted T and he was not trustworthy? What things would he do or say that would make you think you were wrong to have trusted him? For example:
--would he cut back on your sessions?
--would he drop you as a client?
--would he laugh when you told him your most painful information?
--would he not understand when you told him your most painful and traumatic experiences?
--would he betray your confidence and talk about your problems to his colleagues, family, friends?
--would he recommend you go onto meds if you reveal the depth of your pain?

I'm just throwing out random questions here because I don't know what would be evidence of betrayal of trust to you. You need to make your own list. Then go to your T and say, I would like to trust you but I am afraid these things might happen if I do. Then go through them one by one and see if T can reassure you on each point. For example, he might say, "I will not terminate our relationship if you trust me," or "I will try to understand what you are saying, and if I don't, it doesn't mean you can't trust me, it just means you have to try explaining again until I get it," or "I would never laugh at you," or "I would never discuss your case with a colleague unless you signed a release form." Then once he has allayed all of your fears, it will be easier to trust.

2) Share one of your most traumatic and painful experiences with your T and see how he does. If he does well with it, you will know you can trust him, and you will be able to proceed with the even bigger stuff. When I first began therapy, I recovered the memory of a very traumatic childhood experience. I could not talk about this with T at first, but when I finally did (and I spent lots of time trying to figure out how to do this as well as sessions where I would just sit there and not be able to get this thing out) and we did EMDR on it, my T came through with flying colors. He accepted my memories, didn't laugh, held them for me, experienced the pain and trauma along with me, was understanding about why this was traumatic for me, etc. He did great!!! After this, I was able to trust him a lot more, with important things in my present life, such as disentangling myself from my husband and getting divorced. That early experience in therapy helped allow me to trust T so many times later (for example, with bringing my husband for couples therapy with me--that has required huge trust, and I couldn't have done this without our earlier trustbuilding together, in our work on the childhood trauma).

So anyway, instead of waiting a year or two until I slowly built trust with T, I feel I did take the fast track, and "test" him with something really major and traumatic early on. That way we had the trust sooner rather than later. It has really helped.

Take care.

MzJello as you are aware I am struggling with the same issue with trust so I'm watching this post with interest.

Perna's oyster comment cracked me up--that is exactly what I do.
The little progress I've made has come from me doing what Sunrise suggested. When I feel like my T is likely to have a negative response to something, I go back and ask myself.. What supporting evidence do I have that she will ...criticize,..judge..reject..belittle.. etc? Often when I do this exercise I realize I HAVE NONE! She has never responded in this way so I shouldn't I assume that she would on this particular issue.

I think Sunrise's suggestion is good- write down your most feared response. Then ask yourself has at any time my T responded in this way? Also ask yourself, if you were trying to help someone and they told you whatever, would you be inclined to respond in the way you fear?

Good Luck

Fluffy,
Take a flying leap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't believe that there is a fast track. And I also no longer believe it's necessary to jump.

There are times in life when we are faced with challenges that, for some reason, we believe will yield results that are "good" for us. I used to believe that I had take on these challenges whether or not I felt (emotionally) the goodness--sort of like the challenge of jumping into the deep water of the pool for the first time when you were a kid.

However, I have come to believe that's not necessary and I can take these challenges (or not) when I "know" they are right. And I know it, when I trust my feelings.

So....you will know when you feel it. Take your time and trust yourself.

Peace

i dont have time.. the luxury of time. And come to think of it, the better description would be like being on a rock ledge in the fog... you don't know if you can move up or down, it's unlikely, and where you are is misery... misery but "safer" than the jump.

i dont know.. i am doing a bad job here.. i cant explain because i cant put it online openly. i am being forced to make a choice about what to do, just not doing anything isn't a possibility. i have to make some kind of choice in one direction or the other... try to climb a rock wall that i have been sliding and tumbling down over, or leap the rope ladder that is hanging just out there.. cant reach it without jumping.

it's not that i worry about T laughing or betraying my confidence.. not in this case. There are times i worry about some of that stuff, but this time i have to believe in what he is telling me. He is not telling me which choice to make, he tells me what he sees and hears in what i tell him. i believe him... or i try to. i hear what he says, i understand the reasoning, and the "whys" behind it, but to truly believe would mean undoing several years of "stuff" that got me here in the first place.

i *think* i know what i want. T tells me i say it over and over in different ways and that i have been moving consistently in one direction. He shows me the examples of what i have been saying and doing. He validates the painful things i have told him.

He returned my call today to arrange and time and then called when he could be more free to talk to me longer.

i told him i had to believe him, that what he was saying was different than what i have believed for a long time. i said on one side i have one set of information that i have had for several years, and on the other hand i have this one person (T) telling me something different... and he said "..actually, it's several persons..." And he is correct, there have been a number of people over the past few years tell me the same things... but none of them stuck around.. none of them were going to be there, stick around... i think T would.

i just have to believe what he says is true...

do any of you think you're fat? unattractive? not as deserving as others? or any other thing like that? something that permeates who you are, that you wish you didn't think, sometimes think it's not true, but you can't stop believing it anyway?

That is what i have to do. i have to believe T when he tells me that what i have believed isn't true. i have to believe that the stuff that felt bad really was bad.

i hate being so cryptic.

But when T called me back he was wonderful... amazing. He was so supportive and understanding. Very kind and kept his voice gentle. He talked to me for quite a while, reminding me of the reasons i am doing what i am doing... trying help me find ways to stay strong. i told him he was my refernce point, like a spike in the ground i could hold onto.

i need to believe him but i am scared. This is a big life decision... i am afriad of making the wrong choice.. so afraid.

i need to believe him
i need to believe him
i need to believe him
i need to believe him
i need to believe him
i need to believe him
i need to believe him

do any of you think you're fat? unattractive? not as deserving as others? or any other thing like that? something that permeates who you are, that you wish you didn't think, sometimes think it's not true, but you can't stop believing it anyway?

Absolutely! I am my own worst critic. This is likely why and I am currently where I am. Although I demonstrate a lot of confidence at work, when I self evaluate I realize I am doing OK professionally, and even OK in some areas of my personal life. However, I have a real hard time accepting myself. It is like I allow some personal weaknesses to overshadow all my strengths. Even though I know I do this, I can't stop doing it. I'm addicted to self degradation. Unfortunately, my husband has learned my flaws and for whatever reason has choosen to attack me with them too. On the outside I am able to fluff up to look great, but inside I am jello :-)

I can also understand your stress over being indecisive on a major issue and the pressure to commit to act one way or another. I think I am at a point in therapy where I need to decide to I leave or do I stay. The decision seems like it is obvious but for some reason I just can't commit either way. I am stuck like a deer in the headlights-- I simply cannot seem to move one way or the other.

My T like yours has be relaying back what she hears from me. But she is not going to tell me to leave. I would love to have someone step up and say.. LEAVE, you will be much happier alone, your kids will be much happier and healthier. But in all reality this person has got to me! Something is stopping me and I need to figure out what.

Luckily or maybe not so lucky, I do not have a set deadline to decide. The urgency you've mentioned in several posts seems to suggest that this is not the case with you. What I get from your cryptic messages is that you either are in danger or you have some type of deadline that is fast approaching. If this is accurate then I would suggest (based on the posts I've read) that you have thought long and hard on this issue, you are intelligent and not being impulsive, you are not making a rash decision, you internally know what needs to be done. Stop letting your mind continue to create doubt. Go with what you gut is saying and take a leap of faith. Take what ever action necessary, and then TRUST the support system you've created to help you through any fallout.

Feel free to reply to this post with a 'Hey A**hole, mind your own business and try taking your own advice.' I can take it.

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MzJelloFluff said:
i have to believe that the stuff that felt bad really was bad.

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I've been there. It took a lot of my T telling me over and over, emphasizing, before I "saw" it. You'll see and believe it in your own time, MzJello! Just "accept" that it is true and act like it is true and eventually you'll know that it is.

My T kept going over and over the same "point", the same story and I got sick of it and almost wanted to cry out, "enough already!" but then I finally got it. It's horrible what our childhood people made us believe, but think how long you have believed it? Why would it take less time to "unbelieve" it? It's hard work changing our perspective!

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it's not that i worry about T laughing or betraying my confidence.. not in this case. There are times i worry about some of that stuff, but this time i have to believe in what he is telling me. He is not telling me which choice to make, he tells me what he sees and hears in what i tell him. i believe him... or i try to. i hear what he says, i understand the reasoning, and the "whys" behind it, but to truly believe would mean undoing several years of "stuff" that got me here in the first place.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Yes, you need to identify your own fears about trusting T. Do you know them? It is not fear of his laughter or betrayal of confidence. What are they? I'm not sure I understood but are you saying that if you trust your T, it will mean undoing a big part of what makes you who you are? Kind of an existential crisis? Can you talk to T about that? Maybe this is really not so central to your being, or maybe he can give you something to replace it with if you give it up. My T has said before to me that I am losing a lot in giving up the marriage, and we must work to replace the losses with other, positive things, not just leave a vacuum. We haven't done much work in this area, but it is in the queue for the future.

Jello, I'm not sure what your big issue is in therapy and what your decision is all about, but I had a big decision/life transition I have been working on (ending a marriage) and we worked on it a long time in therapy and I had a therapist before that who I worked on with it too, and got stuck. I just could not move forward. With my current T, we did a lot of stuff, it took us ages before I could even talk about the marriage. Early on, if conversation veered toward the marriage, I might say a few sentences and then say abruptedly, "I don't want to talk about this anymore," and change the subject. Baby steps. He was very patient. Eventually, I could talk an entire session about the marriage. He never pushed me to get divorced and I really appreciate that. He let the decision be mine as it should be. Once I made a list of reasons to end the marriage and reasons to stay in it. I brought it to him. There were about 25 reasons to leave, and I had dashed them off in a flash. I had about 5 things on the "stay together" list and it took me a lot longer to think of these. T read the list and said "this is great". One by one he went through the "stay together" list and commented on each one, saying he could help with this one, I could do such and such about another one. I guess the evidence was overwhelming, but still I didn't decide. I just had to get there on my own. I think T was greatly puzzled about why I didn't move forward to divorce and one day he said to me point blank at the beginning of a session, "are you staying married for the financial security?" It wasn't my reason at all, but it was really the only thing he could think since all the other reasons to leave were so strong. It's a crazy process. Really, the therapist cannot make your decisions for you and shouldn't. They just have to be patient, work with you, support you, be your confidante and sounding board, and be able to hold your hurt and pain.

Anyway, that is my example of an issue that took me a long time to decide on. I was truly a wimp on it and took forever. I was petrified to tell my husband I wanted a divorce and when I finally did, I did it in T's office so I would have his support. It's a crazy journey. So scary but I am feeling good about it now. T is my divorce buddy, there with me every step of the way.

Good luck, take care, keep moving forward if you can, tell everything to your T, lean on him, trust him, use him, he is there.

Perna's comment is so true! As an educator it is so much easier to teach someone something totally new than to get him/her to unlearn something previously learned inaccurately. I'm thinking about a Harvard study that clearly demonstrated how people tend to hold on to and vigorously defend a misperception they learned even when they are presented repeatedly with overwhelming evidence against it .

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MzJelloFluff said:
do any of you think you're fat? unattractive? not as deserving as others? or any other thing like that? something that permeates who you are, that you wish you didn't think, sometimes think it's not true, but you can't stop believing it anyway?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Yup. I feel I look like a mutant, like I'm deformed or something. I look at other grown ups and wonder how they did it? How did they fit in so well?

My new T said that it sounds like I'm not comfortable in my own skin. I agreed that I don't.

I know I look pretty normal, I guess. But I don't believe it. Make sense?

Cyran0

ok.. sunrise, we have a lot in common then. i made some decisions today that make me feel sick and i am fighting the urge to change my mind, take it back.

i also decided that i can be a little more brave here, i just worry excessively about being found here. If i say anything identifying then i can't also be real about my feelings... it's depth or identity. But... (deep breath in and out) it isn't about my marriage but it is an issue tangled up in it.

i recently seperated. It's exceedingly complicated... in some ways horrific, and in some ways tender and tragic.. The larger life issue surrounds this.. and the bad news issue is meshed into it all, and yes, there is a deadline. Thats all i can say.

My T sunrise.. he knows the reasons i held out but what he can't seem to do is make me see the value of my own feelings and to put them first... ever. We have really just begun. My circumstances were a little more dire and urgent when i started from what you describe.. i had no courage left. T has his work cut out for him to reverse the track my mind has been set on.

with my T... well, the fears are.. some are practical. WHat if he is wrong? What if i am wrong? What if i'm exaggerating? What if he believes me? What if he is on my side? Then what? i dont know what to do. i could end up losing a lot if we are both wrong. i am afraid T will leave me, that he'll walk away. To do what i have to do i need a strong anchor, and i need to trust that he will be that for me. i dont know.. i dont know what i am afraid of.. i think if i were i would ask T about it

Perna, you are so very right. It took a long time to end up with this mess of a mind and i hope it does not take as long to fix it. The recent few years have been very hard. Very hard.

mckell and cyrano.. what i was getting at was what it would take to change that perception... if you believe as you do, and someone told you it was untrue, a lie given to you by someone else.. what would it take for you to let go of the unhealthy but safe lie to embrace a frightening truth?

i am sorry for all the cloak and dagger about this. i really am so skittish and afraid.

i appreciate the answers and help.

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MzJelloFluff said:
mckell and cyrano.. what i was getting at was what it would take to change that perception... if you believe as you do, and someone told you it was untrue, a lie given to you by someone else.. what would it take for you to let go of the unhealthy but safe lie to embrace a frightening truth?

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What is the frightening truth, that I'm not repulsive but am actually dashing and handsome? I somehow doubt it.

I've been told by many people I look fine. That there's nothing "wrong" with me. But thus far I'm incapable of believing them and it's something I will be working on in therapy.

Tell you what, ask me again someday and maybe I'll know how to defeat such a delusion.

Cyran0

it is frightening, dont know about truth yet.. T hasn't proven anything to me yet.... i suppose he would say it's not his job to prove anything to me.

i'm very sad and disappointed today. Thought seeing T would help.

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MzJelloFluff said:
..what it would take to change that perception... if you believe as you do, and someone told you it was untrue, a lie given to you by someone else.. what would it take for you to let go of the unhealthy but safe lie to embrace a frightening truth?

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Hmmm…frightening truth…

1. Evidence (an abundance of evidence if possible) to support the new truth. I would also want evidence that my previous beliefs/perceptions/conclusions/information source was not true, no longer true, or is not also true. Part of what makes the new truth more acceptable is proof that the old truth was wrong/unhealthy/no longer valid.

2. I would need to know that my fears about the new truth are unwarranted or manageable.

3. If the new truth calls into question or conflicts with my previous beliefs or an information source which I highly respect or value, then I would need more than one source supporting the new truth. The credibility of this new source would be highly scrutinized. In other words, I would need an independent 2nd opinion. In my case since I am very bullhead and don’t like to be wrong – make that 3rd and 4th opinions.

4. Since my previous perceptions had been called into question I would need time to personally reassess all of the inaccurate assumptions that might have lead to my judgment error. My confidence would be devastated at this point. I’d feel the need to understand my error in order to regain confidence in my ability to distinguish truth from fiction. This for me personally would be a necessary step otherwise I would find it difficult to trust any new information for fear that I would be gullible yet again.

5. To embrace a new truth that frightened me I would need to know that it would likely yield a significant benefit. This benefit would need to extend to my children as well. I would need to evaluate and feel comfortable with the benefit to harm ratio. The potential harm to my children would have to be low.

6. If embracing this new truth would have a ripple effect in other areas of my life (i.e. career, physical health, spiritual, family, etc) then I would want to know as much as possible about the potential impact. The more unknowns the more evidence and encouragement I would need.

7. I would need to be able to accept and deal with the worst case scenario. I would need to feel like I was as prepared as possible for any foreseeable fallout.

8. I would need to have people around me to support and encourage me to counter act my self doubt and dispel my fear. I’d be experiencing a lot of self doubt and likely be in a redundant cycle of thought related to items 4-7. This encouragement and support would need to come from more than just one person. They would likely need to be very patient with me! It would be like dealing with a head injured patient who keeps asking the same questions over and over again.

9. If accepting the new truth or making changes required a period of adjustment I would need friends and supporters who would remain steadfast and not allow me to reverse course, chicken out, or be seduced or lulled back into my previous misconceptions.

10. Most importantly I would need to hear again and again and AGAIN: the evidence supporting the new truth & dispelling to old belief, the benefits to be gained, and continual encouragement that what I was doing was both RIGHT and achievable.

Wow! I am one needy person who is resistant to change. Now I understand why I haven’t left yet! I’m sure the likelihood of answering these questions and getting this type of support is totally unrealistic.

I can understand how some are compelled to be released this mental anguish and believe in a higher power. The notion of taking problems to God, surrendering to faith, and trusting in the belief that-- Thy will be done-- is very appealing. This is especially appealing when you couple it with the belief in God’s grace. My mother had this faith and sometimes I wish I could find it within me. I should have talked with her more when I had the chance.

Gerber… MzJelloFluff… who ever you really are, I sincerely hope you find the answers and support you need to make the right choice. You deserve to seek happiness! As I stated previously you sound like you have given this issue a lot of thought, you are not acting on random impulse. Deep down inside you likely know the truth as it exists at this moment.

well.. then i see why you question some same things that i do..

proof isn't really possible i dont think... i dunno.. it's experiential.. it's feelings. How do you prove that? can anyone prove to me that i'm wrong about myself?

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The more unknowns the more evidence and encouragement I would need.

I would need to have people around me to support and encourage me to counter act my self doubt and dispel my fear. This encouragement and support would need to come from more than just one person.

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i am alone really.. i dont have anyone that i am really close to. No one knows enough of me to know me enough. T is it. and yeah, he needs to repeat it, yeah i'm afraid of the unknowns.

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MzJelloFluff said:
well.. then i see why you question some same things that i do..

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Jello, I am not questioning or judging anything you post here. I'm just responding to what I read --sometimes maybe too extemporaneously. In my previous post I thought you asked 'what would it take for me to accept a frightening truth. As I re-read what I wrote maybe your question on trigger a little too much introspection. I slid off topic and I am sorry. I should have held my comments until this morning.

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can anyone prove to me that i'm wrong about myself?

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I think that depends on if your willing to receive and consider the evidence they can provide. If you are not willing to even consider that what they are saying is plausible and at least try to see things from this new perspective, then no they cannot prove it to you. However if you can at some point accept that the information may be true then you can look for things in your life that support that truth I think your self concept can be changed. You may end up proving it to yourself.

Acceptance of a new idea about yourself may depend on if your willing to acknowledge that you have a basic or core value regardless of how right or wrong your assumptions were.

Your willingness to accept that things change, that we change may be a personal trait or some genetic hardwiring. It depends on if you have a predisposition to seek the truth. If you truth seeking drive is strong then you will see likely see truth as not some static fact. To me judging what is true, accurate, moral, right, etc is something dynamic that changes as I change and experience new things and interact with new people.

I think our ability to accept new truths also depends on how we personally define truth. I personally don't believe in an absolute truth. I believe that there are times when two completely divergent views can both be true.

Sorry.. your questions are again triggering too much philosophical crap trapped in my head.

If what is being told to you by your T makes you feel valuable, feels good in your gut, is something that you would tell someone you care about to help them, if it is what you want to believe in your heart (despite the fact that it will cause great upheaval)... then it is probably somewhat true.

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MzJelloFluff said:

i am alone really.. i dont have anyone that i am really close to. No one knows enough of me to know me enough. T is it. and yeah, he needs to repeat it, yeah i'm afraid of the unknowns.

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Sorry, this comment hit home too. I feel like this a lot. Are there any little things you are willing to do to improve this situation? I'm not talking about walking up to a complete stranger and laying out your life history. I'm talking about trying to connect in small ways with other people. Like you are doing here in cyberspace.

I'm trying to force myself to re-engage with people in little ways like:
1. Starting a conversation with another parent I don't know at my son's basketball practice.
2. Actually going to some of the events at my work- taking a leap and asking if the empty seat a new table is taken and if not sitting down and introducing myself. Most of the time that I've done this the table welcomes a new face and I make some new casual connections. If the people are boring or not receptive there is no loss, next event sit somewhere else.
3. I've thought about going to church one day--haven't done it yet-- but my childhood experience suggests that if I sit near some elderly women she'll start talking to me :-)

Although these encounters are not the type of deep connections we need, you never know where they might lead. One of my closest friend right now I met when I volunteer to coach a U7 soccer team. (I never played soccer in my life, I just basically ran around and played with 10 kids instead of just my two.) I spoke with her briefly at practices, invited all the kids over to my home for a team party, she came and stayed with her son, and bam we connected and a friendship developed.

Just some ideas.