FAQ/Help |
Calendar |
Search |
Veteran Member
Member Since Mar 2019
Location: USA
Posts: 540
5 55 hugs
given |
#21
I personally never sought or accepted any kind of guru, the only way I could see young myself getting enmeshed would be a romantic affair and perhaps mixed with some work collaboration. I did that several times in my youth with teachers/mentors and all of them were decent people and good relationships, no harm whatsoever and quite a bit of mutual gain. We treated each-other as equals. With a narcissistic/guru-like therapist it would never last long though, I disliked those kinds of people even when I was very young, so I can't see myself with someone like Ike... my "weakness" used to be smart, accomplished, creative and often quite enigmatic people. But with decent morals. Usually with quite some similar personality traits and interests to myself, which typically comes with a need for independence and not desiring authorities/followers/dependency, more equal but sufficiently autonomous collaborators, friends, advisors, mentees etc. I can imagine mistaking the enigmatic nature of an introverted, somewhat eccentric creative person with unique charisma who is not averse to risks with a paranoid, secretive, purposefully manipulative and only superficially accomplished person who would take unethical risks but no responsibility, for a while when I was very young though. I definitely had an issue with sometimes confusing/separating my professional and romantic interests when I was younger and needed quite a few rounds of trial and error to learn to identify these different things. I imagine someone who has people-pleasing, serving tendencies and a strong desire to join/belong to some powerful bigger structure can end up in a version of that confusion as well quite easily. We definitely bring these patterns from early life and it usually takes quite some experience to change them, if ever.
|
Reply With Quote |
missbella
|
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
#22
I’m not in a place where I could listen to a podcast like this, but I did read about it and find the concept frightening yet entirely believable.
I over-extended myself to pay my therapist for nearly a decade of services (approaching six figures). The majority of what I paid for was to feed an insatiable emotional addiction to therapy. At certain points during treatment I would have done nearly anything she asked. It was very scary to witness my own vulnerability and am grateful to have gotten out as in tact as I did. |
Reply With Quote |
here today, koru_kiwi, missbella
|
koru_kiwi, missbella
|
Grand Poohbah
Member Since Jun 2010
Location: here
Posts: 1,845
14 814 hugs
given |
#23
Admitting to myself I was not only hoodwinked, but assisted in my own scamming was a major part of the pain.
....On a different topic, I wonder if the biggest victim, Marty, is on the autism spectrum. An Aspergers family member similarly was scammed by a caregiver. (I found him better care and a restraining order stopped the exploitation.) |
Reply With Quote |
here today, koru_kiwi, Quietmind 2, SalingerEsme
|
Veteran Member
Member Since Oct 2011
Location: the sunny side of the street
Posts: 672
12 1,231 hugs
given |
#24
Quote:
|
|
Reply With Quote |
here today, Xynesthesia2
|
here today, missbella, Quietmind 2, Xynesthesia2
|
Grand Magnate
Member Since Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 3,515
12 1,429 hugs
given |
#25
Quote:
Quote:
About 12 years ago I was having terrible difficulty with what seemed then, and still seems, an internal addiction to beating myself up emotionally. Shame, contempt, an almost sadistic haughtiness directed at myself. It served to numb out the shame and contempt I was feeling from other sources in my life at the time, perhaps imaginary, perhaps memories, but still present. I hadn't gotten any help with this from therapy, therapists didn't even seem to see this as the big problem that, to me, it was -- perhaps I didn't emphasize it in my therapy, so perhaps it was hard for them to comprehend. AND perhaps they had never been taught about it? I consciously, therefore, chose to start drinking before I went to sleep, to numb out the incessant self-directed aggression since there was nothing I could do internally to turn it off. I didn't become addicted although I did overuse alcohol for some years. And I have overcome, finally, a lot of my original addiction to self-directed emotional aggression. I got the idea, frankly, from reading something in one of Heinz Kohut's books about the difference between narcissistic behavior disorders, like substance addiction, and narcissistic personality disorders. I was never diagnosed with, and don't think I have/had, a narcissistic personality disorder as currently defined by the DSM. But I do think there are things that got cross-wired or stymied in my personality development, probably due to trauma, one of which occurred in a hospital when I was 3. (That one for sure, not my parents' fault.) As you wrote in another post: Quote:
|
|||
Reply With Quote |
missbella, Xynesthesia2
|
koru_kiwi, missbella, Xynesthesia2
|
Veteran Member
Member Since Oct 2011
Location: the sunny side of the street
Posts: 672
12 1,231 hugs
given |
#26
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
Reply With Quote |
here today, missbella, Quietmind 2, Xynesthesia2
|
Veteran Member
Member Since Oct 2011
Location: the sunny side of the street
Posts: 672
12 1,231 hugs
given |
#27
Quote:
it's been incredibly difficult, shameful and scary to admit how enmeshed and 'in awed' i had become to this one person....unlike anyone else ever before |
|
Reply With Quote |
missbella
|
here today, missbella
|
Grand Poohbah
Member Since Jun 2010
Location: here
Posts: 1,845
14 814 hugs
given |
#28
Some of the strongest people I know become mushy and child-like in the thrall of an “omniscient” personality. They cast logic aside and want to believe.
|
Reply With Quote |
here today, koru_kiwi
|
Veteran Member
Member Since Oct 2011
Location: the sunny side of the street
Posts: 672
12 1,231 hugs
given |
#29
i finally had the opportunity to listen to the 5th installment today. all I can say is 'yay for Marty!' 😊
glad to hear that he finally had enough of Ike and his manipulation and that Marty found the courage to stand up for himself. |
Reply With Quote |
Grand Poohbah
Member Since Jun 2010
Location: here
Posts: 1,845
14 814 hugs
given |
#30
Quote:
I had a bumpy separation though, like Marty’s shrink, mine tried to manipulate me into staying. My self-recrimination was large, realizing how duped I was by therapists. I can’t imagine how Marty feels. I read in an author interview that Marty has an active grievance, and the psychiatrist still practices. I searched the internet for professional discussion of the podcast and found none. |
|
Reply With Quote |
koru_kiwi, Quietmind 2
|
Grand Poohbah
Member Since Jun 2010
Location: here
Posts: 1,845
14 814 hugs
given |
#31
Article in the tabloid New York Post has a bit more information.
How a celebrity shrink allegedly conned himself into patients' wills |
Reply With Quote |
koru_kiwi
|
Veteran Member
Member Since Mar 2019
Location: USA
Posts: 540
5 55 hugs
given |
#32
Quote:
I have yet to hear Parts 4 and 5, will listen on my commute to work when I usually enjoy podcasts. It is still incredible to me how long such a spell and enmeshment can last and what exactly cements it so much that is can be so persistent. One way I have experienced association that ended up being too long and not so profitable for me was working for an organization that made it quite easy for me to get away with my issues and still do pretty well. But, in some ways, in blocked certain kinds of development for me because, in order to get away with those things and not practice better discipline, I had to comply with certain roles and behind-the-scenes maneuvers that were, at the minimum, ambivalent for me. Lots of complicated financial transactions involved. This whole story is very interesting and helpful for me because I live in the same environment and deal with power-hungry individuals and complicated political manipulations all the time. In the mental health field. It is a great reminder to be vigilant. The fact that the shrink is still practicing - these podcasts just came out quite recently. Institutions, licensing parties etc won't just get rid of someone quickly without a lot of investigation, and if the guy is in a powerful position in that kind of climate, it is likely that he will find a way unscathed or with relatively minimal damage. If not, he will probably just retire and continue to enjoy the "benefits" of such a career. |
|
Reply With Quote |
koru_kiwi, missbella, Quietmind 2
|
Grand Poohbah
Member Since Jun 2010
Location: here
Posts: 1,845
14 814 hugs
given |
#33
Xynesthesia2, I think every institution, bond or alliance has its own reality and values, for good or bad. My bad therapy experiences have taught me occasionally to assess if I've compromised myself away in my allegiances. I think this is especially important with authoritarian leadership. (I admire work colleagues who could be cooperative but not cowed. )
It appears the shrink continues unfazed. I'd hope this story would generate professional soul-searching like the Daphne Merkin NYTimes story did. There appears evidence of egregious boundary violations. If this shrink's behavior is deemed acceptable, this gives me less confidence in the profession. |
Reply With Quote |
Quietmind 2, Xynesthesia2
|
Veteran Member
Member Since Oct 2011
Location: the sunny side of the street
Posts: 672
12 1,231 hugs
given |
#34
Quote:
i can't believe that this shrink is still practicing. hopefully that will change as more people hear this story. I'm not too surprised to hear that there is not much of a buzz about this story among the professionals. i suspect they would rather this not get too much press. when the podcast first came out, i saw a reference to it on r/therapists (a reddit sub for therapists) but only a handful of members even commented, which was a bit disappointing. Anybody listening to The Shrink Next Door podcast? : therapists |
|
Reply With Quote |
missbella
|
missbella, Quietmind 2, Xynesthesia2
|
Grand Poohbah
Member Since Jun 2010
Location: here
Posts: 1,845
14 814 hugs
given |
#35
koru_kiwi, I’m sorry your guy was so manipulative, but it seems like you were up for handling it. I experienced something similar, and it felt he was throwing me under the bus. What vanity.I was firm when I finally left, but trembling on the inside.
I’m glad that someone posted a link on the therapist Reddit, but agree the response was pretty underwhelming. I think there should be a lot for them to unpack. |
Reply With Quote |
koru_kiwi
|
koru_kiwi, Quietmind 2
|
Veteran Member
Member Since Mar 2019
Location: USA
Posts: 540
5 55 hugs
given |
#36
Quote:
|
|
Reply With Quote |
missbella
|
koru_kiwi, Quietmind 2
|
Grand Poohbah
Member Since Jun 2010
Location: here
Posts: 1,845
14 814 hugs
given |
#37
The sixth and final episode has been posted, though there is the promise of more in reaction to the series. The psychiatrist's blaming and counter charges sound too familiar. In fact a social worker who committed documented insurance fraud described a plaintiff friend the same way: "She wants to punish me."
Rolling Stone just published a story about the podcast. New Podcast ‘The Shrink Next Door’ Tackles Strange Hamptons Saga – Rolling Stone Last edited by missbella; Jun 11, 2019 at 07:08 PM.. |
Reply With Quote |
BizzyBee, koru_kiwi, unaluna
|
Veteran Member
Member Since Oct 2011
Location: the sunny side of the street
Posts: 672
12 1,231 hugs
given |
#38
haven't had a chance to listen to the last podcast yet, but will do so soon. thanks for including the link to the RS article. glad to see some in the media are starting to take an interest in this crazy story. i even saw a brief mention of this podcast in one of my countries main online news outlets last week.
|
Reply With Quote |
missbella
|
Grand Magnate
Member Since Feb 2015
Location: US
Posts: 3,983
9 752 hugs
given |
#39
I only listened to the intro. I dont need any more evidence that the shrink biz is full of lunatics.
Sounds like something from a Woody Allen movie. |
Reply With Quote |
missbella
|
Grand Poohbah
Member Since Jun 2010
Location: here
Posts: 1,845
14 814 hugs
given |
#40
Quote:
There was coverage in the Financial Times ( first I hit a firewall) and the Guardian as well as the N.Y. Post. Budfox, my situation had a small parallel in that my therapist tried to manipulate me into staying though I’d become very unhappy. I was comforted by reading Ellen Plasil’s Therapist another story about a cult-like therapist. At least she and the others got legal redress. The Shrink Next Door isn’t your average true crime podcast A sinister tale from the minds behind Dirty John – podcasts of the week | Television & radio | The Guardian |
|
Reply With Quote |
koru_kiwi, Quietmind 2
|