[JustExisting]

I have problems with sex. It disgusts me. It's humiliating to me, among other things.

This is not my primary reason for being in therapy. I'm in therapy because I'm severely socially isolated and I have no direction in life. Among other things. I'm just a big old mess really.

Through therapy I have learned that I have attachment trauma, and that I was neglected as a child and that I had a skewed recollection of my entire life because it was kind of horrible and I had like a defense mechanism only cherry-picking mostly the good parts and keeping those in my conscious memory.

Anyway for the most part my therapist has been wonderful. I am extremely attached to him, to the point that I fear he may have too much power over me. I am not sure that I can think clearly about some things that happened between us. I think it may be to a point that my desire to have a good relationship with him might override my judgement and if he isn't serving me well I won't want to admit that to myself.

But something has happened a couple of times most recently in our last session that has left me uneasy and unsure if I am getting good treatment. I do intend to bring this up to him but I'm thinking about it from so many different angles I just don't even know what way I should attack it

So I have never been really truly textbook sexual abused or raped everything that happens to me in those areas have been in like a gray area.

I am telling my therapist my entire narrative so we are covering basically everything so naturally these topics come up. Most of our therapy feels good I usually feel validated and he is empathic which is actually kind of horrifying to me because I have problems accepting empathy. Nonetheless that's not a shortcoming of his that's just me dealing with my emotional issues.

But for instance one of the first things in this topic that I had to bring up was an event that happened when I was 12 and my father who was always like a nudist and liked to be naked around the house, decided to have my sister and me play a prank on our mom. She was out with some friends and when she came home he said it would be funny if we were in the living room completely naked playing strip poker. So we set it up and we did just that. And at the time it was just like a joke. And another time he took us streaking. He just likes to get us naked once in awhile you know. And I don't really know exactly why or if that's the exact reason but I do know that at some point after that not too long after that I did develop a fear of being seen naked and it's always remained with me.

I was also fondled by an elderly neighbor. Around the same time.

And some other things too much to get into here.

When I told him that story his reaction was almost blase. Like he Shrugged It Off. He kind of asked me how I felt about my dad being naked around me all the time, like his tone was like "so did you like it?"

At least that's kind of how I interpreted his tone that may be a skewed perception because I was in such a state when I told him that story. I don't cry in therapy I can't, but what does happen is I get like almost Frozen. Like my whole body seizes up my muscles get tense I can't think straight and I know that my face like probably Quivers. And I get like a lump in my throat and I can't really breathe or think.

This happened to many months ago. A number of sessions after that I confronted him about it. And he did finally tell me that he thought it was messed up what what my father did and that he was trying not to color his reaction with his own feelings but to I guess allow me to explore my own without his input. Something like that. He apologized and it felt resolved.

Then in an effort to try to help him understand my feelings about sex I spent an entire session laying out what I saw as possible roots to my sexual aversion like some of the things that I have mentioned here already as well as some other early experiences. But my conclusion was that I just don't know exactly why I feel the way I do about sex and this was my attempt to connect some dots and this is just the best that I can do for now.

So fast forward to our last session. I relayed a story about when I was a teenager despite living a lifestyle where I was surrounded by men constantly propositioning me for sex for money I always stood my ground, acted tough, acted unfazed. At this point in my life I had only had sex once. And that experience was so humiliating that I never wanted to do it again. But there I was on this particular day, I was completely destitute and I needed $20 to get through the night, and I went ahead and sold myself for $20.

It was so hard for me to get the words out when I told him the story. And I was expecting him to Simply understand that it was a horrifying experience based on all the context from our previous sessions. I feel like by now he should understand how this kind of event would affect me.

But his reaction was pretty blase. He asked how I felt about telling him that and I said it was completely humiliating. I was already in my heightened state of anxiety and then he asked what was humiliating about it? And I was really stunned by that. Like does he really not know? At this point can he not imagine what would be humiliating about that for me? Or is this like a technique perhaps? Like even though it's clearly a terrible experience for me and he knows why for some reason it's therapeutic for me to reiterate the reasons that sex is humiliating and why selling myself for $20 is a terribly negative experience?

I suspect his intention was to make me feel not judged. He said I think you were just a person doing what you had to do to survive but you seem to feel shame about it. Its important for you to let yourself feel your shame. that is a shortened version of what he said of course.

But what it really felt like was that he was shrugging It Off like okay why does that bother you? For one I felt like he should understand why that bothered me. And the way he asked his questions it felt like I had to justify feeling horrified by what happened like my feelings weren't valid. I was surprised that I felt like I had to explain myself in that way. I thought that we had covered this stuff. In the end it felt like being judged even though I think that wasn't his intention.

What's more is that this experience wasn't only humiliating because of the fact that I sold myself and I did the very thing that I felt was like one of the worst things I could do, have sex because I do find it disgusting and humiliating. But the encounter turned a little bit violent and you know this is like another gray area thing. I consented so it wasn't rape, but honestly in my mind it feels like it was as traumatic as a rape. He hurt me on purpose and he was insulting me the whole time and then afterwards he offered me up to his friend like I was a party favor and I was in such a state at that time that I would have done it had his friend wanted to. All of this is utterly and totally gut-wrenchingly humiliating. When I relayed that part of the story to him first of all I kind of felt like I was having to justify my feeling already because of how this exchange was going. So I told him a little bit about how it was actually more traumatic than just my humiliation about selling myself and his response was just a very simple "I'm sorry that happened to you" it felt cold.

That was actually the point in the exchange when he told me it was important for me to let myself feel my shame sorry I know this is a little jumbled.

I was left feeling like I was making a mountain out of a molehill or something. Like all of these intense feelings that I felt about relaying the story to him totally unjustified.

Perhaps if I was a normal person I should consider this like a win-win or something money for sex, two great things. I'm supposed to like sex people like money I got both things two great things that everybody likes. And yet I'm feeling traumatized by it.

I'm wondering if he's maybe just blind to the fact that sex isn't a great thing for everyone. Even though I explained it to him how it is for me he just doesn't seem to understand. Or maybe this is all just my perception I'm so confused.

I don't feel like entitled to feel the way I do about sex. Like I said I was never like textbook sexually abused or raped it's all gray area. So why am I all sensitive about sex? Like am I just so hypersensitive? It makes me feel really pathetic.

There are more stories like this coming up in my narrative and I'm getting more and more anxious about relaying them to him. There's a an event coming up in the story and if he asks me why I find it upsetting I just really don't know if I'll be able to handle it. I'm getting to a point that I don't want to talk about these things with him and that's not good because I have to be able to talk about everything with my therapist.

I'm not sure what I'm looking for here. Just ideas about my perception on the situation?

Does it sound like he's using some proper technique on me and it's just feeling really intense and uncomfortable for me because it is supposed to?

Or maybe does it is possible that he's just totally mishandling me when it comes to this topic?

I just need some thoughts about this not from my own head I've been chewing on this for days writing out tons of notes just trying to sort out where to even begin when I talk to him about it.

Sorry this is long and the grammar sucks I'm using voice to text I'm laying in bed I just wanted to get this out before I went to sleep. Thanks to anyone for your help.

[Lemoncake]

Originally Posted by JustExisting

What's more is that this experience wasn't only humiliating because of the fact that I sold myself and I did the very thing that I felt was like one of the worst things I could do, have sex because I do find it disgusting and humiliating. But the encounter turned a little bit violent and you know this is like another gray area thing. I consented so it wasn't rape, but honestly in my mind it feels like it was as traumatic as a rape. He hurt me on purpose and he was insulting me the whole time and then afterwards he offered me up to his friend like I was a party favor and I was in such a state at that time that I would have done it had his friend wanted to. All of this is utterly and totally gut-wrenchingly humiliating. When I relayed that part of the story to him first of all I kind of felt like I was having to justify my feeling already because of how this exchange was going. So I told him a little bit about how it was actually more traumatic than just my humiliation about selling myself and his response was just a very simple "I'm sorry that happened to you" it felt cold..

You are NOT making mountains out of a molehills and relaying the story to him is NOT unjustified.

Exposing yourself to young children is still abuse. A young child is still a child and doesn't have a real concept of consent.

Personally I don't think he's handling it well. "so did you like it?"

You may have consented to initially having sex with this person, but I don't think this is a grey area at all. What you went through IS a traumatic event and shouldn't be minimized.

[ArtleyWilkins]

Originally Posted by Lemoncake

Personally I don't think he's handling it well. "so did you like it?"

The therapist didn't ask "so did you like it?" The OP said she felt like the therapist's tone was AS IF he was saying "so did you like it?"

OP: I don't think your therapist's approach is inappropriate. It sounds like you were expecting a more emotional response to your retelling of these incidents, but therapists generally are very careful to maintain a very objective reaction to what we tell them so as to not skew our own emotions and thoughts. If they give too much respond, oddly enough, that can have the effect of stopping our communication.

I've told my therapists some pretty horrific incidents and they've largely responded very much as you describe. They do tend to ask questions like "how did you feel"? "What were you thinking in that moment?" "When you remember what happened, how do you feel about it now?" They are trying to get us to verbalize what we are experiencing internally.

It is also not unusual for a child to have actually had positive feelings about what they were experiencing at the time which seems paradoxical, but that's the complexity of sexual trauma and why we are sometimes left with so much shame and guilt about what we experienced. So even if a therapist did ask if we enjoyed it at the time, that isn't a judgment on us; it is important information about our trauma. I understand how jolting it can be to be asked that kind of question (although it doesn't sound like he asked it outright). I was asked those kinds of questions and as hard as they were to hear, it was important to discuss.

You say several times things like "doesn't he already know how I am feeling?" "Why should I even have to tell him; he should already know?" Again, what is obvious in our internal experience may not be obvious to the person we are relaying our experience to, even a therapist. We assume our internal experience is universal, but in actuality, it isn't. It could very well be that your internal experience is quite different than someone else who went through a very similar trauma. A therapist can't assume your feelings; all he can do is inquire. I would go as far as to say it is dangerous for a therapist to assume he knows a clients emotions and thoughts.

Because you are feeling that his objective reaction feels like judgment to you, talk to him about that. It is important fodder for therapy. There is a reason that having a therapist actually be completely nonjudgmental in his response FEELS judgmental. That's worth asking about and exploring with your therapist.

[LonesomeTonight]

I agree with much of what Artley said. I had a similar experience in telling my T about

Possible trigger:

an experience in college that was a gray area of whether I was sexually assaulted. Like I consented to certain things, but not a specific part of the act. And I think I wanted my T to be like, "Yes, obviously it was rape!" But instead he was asking how I perceived it and things like that. It upset me, too. I emailed him about it afterward, and he said he didn't want to affect how I perceived the experience by putting a label on it. That of course he thought it was wrong what had happened to me.

Which made sense to me when I thought about it. I think I had sort of wanted him to protect me in a way, like to be paternal in how he reacted. And there's therapeutic meaning in that, in what I was looking for from him. Or the fact that I wanted someone else to put a label on something, that I didn't trust my own feelings about what happened.

I think your T is doing something similar in asking how you felt about, for example, the getting paid for sex. I imagine someone with a similar experience could say they felt powerful, or sexy, or any number of other things (I'd have reacted how you did). So your T wanted to know what emotions came out for you. The same with your father being naked around you/encouraging you to be naked. It could have, say, made you feel special or like you didn't have to be ashamed of your body. His asking how it made you feel is because he wants to understand the effect it had on you without putting words in your mouth.

It sounds like you've talked to him a bit about why this bothers you. Have you talked about how anxious you feel discussing these topics? You may think it's obvious to him, but it might not be as clear as you think. So I'd share that. And maybe talk about what you're looking for him in terms of reaction and also what could make you feel more comfortable sharing. For example, if it's hard to get the words out, could you type/write them down and hand them to him? I think discussing these feelings with him is important.

In particular, I think it would be good to share with him the following: "I was left feeling like I was making a mountain out of a molehill or something. Like all of these intense feelings that I felt about relaying the story to him totally unjustified.

Perhaps if I was a normal person I should consider this like a win-win or something money for sex, two great things. I'm supposed to like sex people like money I got both things two great things that everybody likes. And yet I'm feeling traumatized by it.

I'm wondering if he's maybe just blind to the fact that sex isn't a great thing for everyone. Even though I explained it to him how it is for me he just doesn't seem to understand. Or maybe this is all just my perception I'm so confused.

I don't feel like entitled to feel the way I do about sex. Like I said I was never like textbook sexually abused or raped it's all gray area. So why am I all sensitive about sex? Like am I just so hypersensitive? It makes me feel really pathetic."

[Lemoncake]

Sorry I misread it.

[Omers]

A lot of what I am hearing is just a certain style of therapy that your T may be trained in. I adore my T and he does very well with me. He is extremely empathetic and nurturing. He is big on clients not feeling shame and especially not feeling shamed by him. I told him about an experience with an employer where there was a huge power imbalance and a lot of lies and manipulation. T immediately asked “but it was consensual RIGHT?” And in the moment it totally felt like blame and my mind was filled with all kinds of hateful thoughts/feelings about myself. In my typical style I looked him square on, not showing what was going on in my head and said “yes, I consented to a relationship with a married man”... then T just dropped it, like he got his confession that I was a bad person and he could go on. In reality T didn’t want to get into details that session (we were running out of time) if he didn’t have to BUT if it hadn’t been consensual then he would have taken time to make sure I was OK.

Sometimes in making space to hear the experience from our perspective T’s come off as insensitive even if they are anything but. So I would talk to T about it and what kind of response might feel more accepting/supportive.

[divine1966]

I am sorry for what you had to endure. As about your t I think he understands the horror of a situation but they don’t really suppose to tell us how to feel snd I think he might not want to come across judgemental. My t often appears unfazed by things I thought were mortifying. Talk to him about his lack of emotional response, he might be able tp explain to you what’s going on with his reaction.

[JaneTennison1]

I talked to T about sui once and I thought it was huge, she reacted like I had said nothing that big. I asked her later why and she said she had to work really hard to keep her emotion out of it and just give me the space to say what I needed. I say talk to him, it can be pretty difficult when you feel so raw to know what his motives are.

[blackocean]

I don’t think this is grey area.

[JustExisting]

Originally Posted by ArtleyWilkins

You say several times things like "doesn't he already know how I am feeling?" "Why should I even have to tell him; he should already know?" Again, what is obvious in our internal experience may not be obvious to the person we are relaying our experience to, even a therapist. We assume our internal experience is universal, but in actuality, it isn't. It could very well be that your internal experience is quite different than someone else who went through a very similar trauma. A therapist can't assume your feelings; all he can do is inquire. I would go as far as to say it is dangerous for a therapist to assume he knows a clients emotions and thoughts.

Because you are feeling that his objective reaction feels like judgment to you, talk to him about that. It is important fodder for therapy. There is a reason that having a therapist actually be completely nonjudgmental in his response FEELS judgmental. That's worth asking about and exploring with your therapist.

I hear what you are saying about expecting him to know how I feel. I didn't mind the initial question about how I felt about the encounter. But then when I told him the (obvious) answer that is was humiliating, i didn't think he would need any more explanation since I had spent lots of time with him before laying out my feelings about sex. It is well established that I find it humiliating, of course this instance when I sold myself, especially after being all prideful in time past about fighting off propositions was going to be humiliating. It was all so well established by that point.

It is almost like if I had agoraphobia or something and spent many sessions explaining why I am afraid to go outside, then I mention a story about how I wanted to go somewhere yesterday but was afraid to go outside. Then if he asked "Why?" at that point, I would be thinking "Have you been paying attention?" That was how this felt. I was confused as to why he would need more explanation, and also embarrassed that he didnt seems to see anything about it that could be humiliating, and yet there I was feeling all affected. Like omg how pathetic am I? I just dont think I should have to feel like this every time I bring up a sexual trauma. It makes me not want to talk about it with him any more.

I also hear you about how his objective response feels like a judgment. I have been thinking about it from this angle too and should probably bring up this aspect of it. I am working on figuring out exactly how I want to approach this. Thanks.

[JustExisting]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

It sounds like you've talked to him a bit about why this bothers you. Have you talked about how anxious you feel discussing these topics? You may think it's obvious to him, but it might not be as clear as you think. So I'd share that. And maybe talk about what you're looking for him in terms of reaction and also what could make you feel more comfortable sharing. For example, if it's hard to get the words out, could you type/write them down and hand them to him? I think discussing these feelings with him is important.

"

Oh yes! During that session when I did me best to give him all reasons I can imagine for my sexual aversion, I described exactly how I feel when I think about these things (which is typically not too bad. Internally these memories are devoid of feeling... part of the problem) But when I relay these things to him... or anyone I am sure... but he is the one I am telling them to, I get all seized up. I told him exactly how it felt physically and emotionally and how my mind gets all foggy. We discussed somatic experiencing and other things in relation to all this. How my traumas are stuck in my body and I have to confront them to be released from them.


I am not sure what reaction I would necessarily prefer. I think I just, more than anything want him to take into account all the work we have already done together. I hope every single trauma we don't have to start from scratch. It just feels like we are getting nowhere if that is the case. Shouldn't I be feeling like he is coming to understand me as a person? I do feel like he is in a lot of ways but for some reason this topic seems different.

We have been working together for a bout a year fyi.

[MobiusPsyche]

I'm sorry you went through what you did. It is incredibly painful to talk about it and you're really brave to do that. I encourage you to talk about this with your therapist. His response seems cold to you, it seems like he's misattuned to you in that moment. That's important information for a therapist to have.

I've had the same experience with my therapist, in terms of her asking what I felt at the time of an event, but at the time it was clear to me that she was genuinely curious to know how I felt and that she didn't want to push me one way or another. She wanted me to say out loud how I was feeling at the time when I thought it had been painful enough just to say what had happened, let alone think about how it had made me feel.

You should also tell him how you feel physically when telling him these experiences. Again, important information for a therapist to have. I also think you're brave for wanting to work this out with him. He should be able to help you learn techniques to calm down that physical reaction before your leave his office, so you're not feeling it the whole rest of the day.