[MRT6211]

I feel really weird writing this because I feel like it’s a really messed up thought. But I often wish that T would kind of punish me in some way when I do “bad” things. Not physically, and not in an abusive way. I mean I want her to yell at me and tell me how unacceptable my behavior is and lecture me. My last T actually did this to a degree, and it was so helpful. Which is a little messed up...but it worked. This T has done something similar to that once where she was stern with me one session after I acted out a lot that week for attention. I often have those desires to act out, especially with self-harm, because I like negative attention better than positive attention. I’ve told T this, and I’ve gotten a lot better about telling her about the urges, rather than following through on them. But I feel like sometimes I don’t fully get my point across unless I show her my pain or escalate my behavior. T straight up told me at the beginning that acting out was not going to get me much, if any, attention from her. At the time, when I was in a more wise minded place, I thought “wow, that’s awesome, that gives me less incentive to act out!” But when I’m in emotional mind, I find myself thinking “if I escalate this more, T will HAVE to pay attention to it.” I know that’s a messed up thought and something I need to work through.

I think this might be why I got so frustrated by session this week, because she didn’t yell at me or lecture me, instead she met me with a lot of compassion, and told me she doesn’t condone my behavior, but she also didn’t condemn it, and understands that it’s hard to stop it. She said what should have been the right things, but I guess they just weren’t what I felt like I needed to hear.

So...I want to hear from others...have you ever had any desire for T to “punish” you in any way?

[zoiecat]

You are not alone. Although I don't tend to act out I still think these thoughts often. I even wish he would hit me. It is what I know and feel comfortable with. I call it my twisted brain and it's twisted thoughts. I wish I knew how to make it stop.

I also tend to use the constant thought that everything is a punishment to get myself to do things like get up, clean, whatever.

[piggy momma]

Well, I'm not sexually attracted to my T but if he wanted to put me over his lap for a spanking I'd take it .

Seriously though, I also tend to act out between sessions. Rarely in sessions because at that point he's kind of "reigned me in" and things are ok.

Last week he was getting significant drunk test messages from me after taking my evebubg skeeoubg outs`. I toldhin he shod probably take my phone away from me for each tie I try to drunk test gum. It doesn't happen tonight tajfuly.

[DP_2017]

Never had the desire but he did yell at me, quite recently about something I said that upset him

Initially I was in shock and convinced he hated me... after reflecting on it a bit, I realized how happy I was that he did that, how much I felt like he really cared by doing so AND it helped me see that there is no need to worry about him just ghosting me.... he would always discuss things or call me out on it

So I can see how one might want this type of thing

[MRT6211]

Well, I guess I have had the vision in my head of my previous T grabbing me by the collar or hitting me and I guess in a weird way I kinda liked that/if she had done that, I would’ve felt like she cared about me. She was the only T I have ever had any kind of physical touch with, but in the form of hugs, so maybe that’s the only reason why my mind was okay with that. Mostly, though, especially with current T, I just want her to really yell at me. Kinda like how my previous T did a few times.

As for that spanking fantasy/thought, piggy, I’ve had that before, also in a totally non-sexual way, but not with Ts as far as I can remember. I just kinda wish SOMEONE would do that in a disciplinary way...seems like it would be...helpful? Funny enough, I found out that “spanking therapy” is a real thing, although they’re obviously not officially licensed. Interesting concept. There’s actually a “spank clinic” nearby where they do that therapy...I’ve thought about it a few times, not gonna lie...discipline in therapy seems like something that should be a thing for me

[TeaVicar?]

The thing is, all that acting out can be a distraction from experiencing what you are really feeling. The desire to be controlled and reigned in, is also a desire to relinquish responsibility and autonomy. It might also be about wanting to be cared and loved... in the sense that a caring, loving parent might be angry with us if we did something stupid.

Maybe think about why you want to be punished. How does it feel, what feels good about it? Also think about how it feels not to be punished. Maybe you're angry with her because she's forcing you to face up to your own behaviour by not reacting? I would also suggest (because I can relate to your op) that perhaps it's easier to project that role onto your therapists, rather than face the self critical, punishing person that's actually in you?

[MRT6211]

Originally Posted by TeaVicar?

The thing is, all that acting out can be a distraction from experiencing what you are really feeling. The desire to be controlled and reigned in, is also a desire to relinquish responsibility and autonomy. It might also be about wanting to be cared and loved... in the sense that a caring, loving parent might be angry with us if we did something stupid.

Maybe think about why you want to be punished. How does it feel, what feels good about it? Also think about how it feels not to be punished. Maybe you're angry with her because she's forcing you to face up to your own behaviour by not reacting? I would also suggest (because I can relate to your op) that perhaps it's easier to project that role onto your therapists, rather than face the self critical, punishing person that's actually in you?

You make really good points. When I get “punished” aka reprimanded by a T, it feels good because it feels like they care about me enough to do that. My own thoughts on this is that it’s probably because as a kid, I only really got attention when it was me being yelled at, positive things didn’t really get me a whole lot of attention. So when T reprimands me, it tells me that T cares. And my last T would tell me as much, that she only lectured/yelled/reprimanded me because she cared. And it worked for me. My brain understands that. She disciplined me in a loving way. When I discipline myself, which is often, kind of always, I’m not very kind to myself. I’m very harsh and it’s in a non-loving way. I give myself no level of compassion (I’m working on it). So when T doesn’t discipline me and instead ignores my behaviors, I feel like I have to discipline myself. And sometimes that discipline comes in the form of more self-destructive behaviors, like self-harm. Right now, I don’t have a lot of ability to intrinsically motivate myself, I respond primarily to extrinsic motivators to do and not do things. Which, I know is problematic and I’m working on that as well, but right now I need T to give that extrinsic motivation.

[satsuma]

It seems like it's about wanting to know that somebody cares about you? But I think there are better ways for people to show caring other than yelling etc. Hopefully as therapy progresses this would improve as you are able to experience caring in a more healthy way. For me, it's been through therapy that I've been able to experience what it is like to have a basically healthy stable person caring about me. It's sad I suppose that I experienced that through a paid professional, but I'm also hugely grateful to my T for giving me this experience and my whole life is much more positive as a result.

[MRT6211]

Originally Posted by satsuma

It seems like it's about wanting to know that somebody cares about you? But I think there are better ways for people to show caring other than yelling etc. Hopefully as therapy progresses this would improve as you are able to experience caring in a more healthy way. For me, it's been through therapy that I've been able to experience what it is like to have a basically healthy stable person caring about me. It's sad I suppose that I experienced that through a paid professional, but I'm also hugely grateful to my T for giving me this experience and my whole life is much more positive as a result.

Yeah, I’d love to get to that point where I feel like compassion = caring. Unfortunately, I’m not there yet :/

[TeaVicar?]

It can be really hard to shift that pattern of being harshly self critical.

What I've found helpful recently, is to try to parent myself in a gentle way. I can see the child me inside, creating a bit of a stir, sometimes behaving in child like ways and I try to be gentle but guiding. It takes a while to get into the habit and for it to take effect. Sometimes I go back to being harsh but all in all I feel a lot better.

I think it's really normal to want someone else to take over the parenting, especially if you didn't have that when you were small and really needed it.

In the beginning I might have had similar thoughts. But that's because of my toxic early life. In time I realised I got enough caring from T without having to do anything. She cared about things I hadn't even thought existed.
I don't think your T's statement that outing out won't get you anything was a therapeutic response.
I've told T in the past that I've felt that if I harmed myself then T would care, she said you grew up believing that only extremes would get you noticed. That that's all your worth.
She was right and to be honest T's caring felt like it was burning my skin at first. I didn't know how to except it.
Oh and whrn I have acted out. She continued to cared and show concern for that fact alone.

[unaluna]

Good thread. When i was at the dentist a couple of weeks ago, hes like, youre not brushing everyday but you are flossing? (I like flossing.) Im like yeah - theres no grownups at my house right now to tell me what to do. (I am t-less.)

I hadnt really thought about it til this morning. I left t rather suddenly about 4 months ago after seeing him for ten years. It is just starting to become easier to form good habits. Its like he did a bone marrow transplant for ten years before it finally took.

[Stargazergirl94]

I think I mentioned this in my opening but I used to be an aide at a psych hospital in Richardson. I was assigned to work with this girl in her mid 20s because the Charge nurse thought I might be able to form a connection with her and knew I was going to school to be therapist. After each “session”, I’d give her a homework assignment. After the 2nd session, she said to me “You know what I think needs to happen? You need to start disciplining me when I don’t do my homework.” Like a typical 20 year old student I asked her what kind of discipline she thought would be helpful. She responded, “You just need to put me over your knee and spank me.”

Needless to say, none of my undergrad classes had prepared me for that. And of course, I told her that wouldn’t be an option. But it triggered something in me as a former patient who is still in recovery from what happened in my childhood. It was an idea I liked (even though I knew I couldn’t act on it), and it made me confront some of my own lingering issues re control and the power dynamic.

[susannahsays]

The one I see does tell me when my behavior isn't ok. Sometimes it's a little bit lecture-y, but not really, because she doesn't tend to go on for a long time without engaging me in some way. I don't really consider that punishment, though. It's not like she's refusing to work with me or withholding sessions or something. I can always just ignore whatever she says if I want, and that's rarely had any consequences. She might threaten me with hospitalization once in a blue moon, but she's never actually made any moves. She mostly just likes to get all disapproving and/or act all disappointed that I'm acting out or whatever. Well, I actually don't know that she likes it but that's what she does.

I have sometimes had the expectation of punishment. However, if she were to punish me - for example, by withholding sessions or refusing to talk about something I want to talk about - I would consider that a red flag and be outta there. I accept her feedback/opinions on my behavior because I have found it helpful to have a disinterested party give me their perspective. By contrast, I would find it demeaning to have a professional whom I pay discipline me.

That said, I think I kind of get where you're coming from. One thing I like about the one I'm seeing is that she's not overly nice. She's not all mushy gushy and just oozing with (imo, false) empathy and compassion. Yuck. Even though she's not all warm and fuzzy, I've still occasionally found myself trying to provoke her. I'm not sure exactly why. I guess part of it is that I find it reassuring that she can be annoyed, a bit angry, etc. and it's not hidden from me. I would feel really uneasy if a therapist was just some constantly kind unnatural weirdo. I don't want to talk to someone who is going to completely suppress their emotions because to me that does not indicate trustworthiness. It either means they have so little respect for me that nothing I say has any effect on them (which really shouldn't be the case for the clients of any professional imo), they are a master of deceit, or they are a sociopath.

So yeah. I wouldn't like it either if the therapist I see said "all the right things." That crap is unsettling.

Yes. Because as T said "that would be familiar to me"
Her not being like my past feels so unsafe because I'm not use to it. Plus, I'm afraid her niceness could turn at any time like my mother and I want predictability. Even if it was in the form of punishment"

But of course, T isn't ever going to punish me.