Having a bit of a hard time here. Originally T had told me that we would have two sessions per week. He told me that it would have to be set thing so that it wouldn't become painful for me-- that meant that even if seeing him twice during the week didn't work into the schedule, then we would do a phone session. He has moved to the new office and assured me of more flexibility. Now, I'm not completely blaming him for the flexibility part that I will tell you about because this week I do start school and my flexibility becomes extremely limited as well.

I see him on Saturdays. I told him that the only day I would be available for session #2 would be on Tuesdays. T informed that for the next two Tuesdays he definitely cannot do a session. He said nothing about a phone session.

In addition to this we discussed the amount of times I have called him lately. He didn't say there was a problem with it, but he did say we needed to talk about what the purpose of the calls were to be when I feel ungrounded, unsafe, and sometimes not completely in control. He stated that in those times there is nothing he can do over the phone to help me if I feel as though I am going to do something impulsive and I need to tell my husband or go to the ER, blah, blah, blah. He asked me if I felt as though he was being punitive and I said 'yes.' At the end of the session he said, "I would never tell you not to call me." I said, "Promise?" And he said "Yes."

Of course at this point I have decided I am never calling him again. In my mind, I have ruined his life by making these phone calls. The little girl has been deeply hurt by all of the above and needs to show him that she is 'grown up' and 'doesn't need him.'

I know what you will all say-- Just call him and ask for a phone session. But the little girl wants to just stomp her feet and yell at him and say, "BUT YOU SAID!!!! YOU PROMISED!!" She doesn't want to call him ever again.

She has also decided that he is a mother %#@&#! piece of %#@&#! therapist who is a *******ed liar.

[MissCharlotte]

OOOOOOOHHHHHH YOUR AVATAR LMAO!!!!!!

So, then in stead of calling for a phone appointment, call and scream at him.

Yeah, that's it. Call and scream.

In all seriousness I think I share this frequent phone call issue with you. I have called T many times and recently called and didn't hear from him for 2 days. during that time I convinced my self of numerous falsehoods including that he hated me, didn't want to do therapy with me, was dead, in a car accident, etc., etc., etc. When we talked, he was fine and explained he had been very busy and I didn't say the call was an emergency. So, I ask myself, why then was I flipping out? I do this without punishing myself because that would be counter-productive. I just think it was a growth moment for me.

So, this morning I was panicked. All of a sudden I had huge anxiety and wanted to do all sorts of things to myself. I was losing it. I felt out of control no matter how hard I tried. I thought of calling him, and almost picked up the phone. I had a gazillion mental conversations with him. I wanted to hear his voice.

But then I remembered something Echoes said about tolerance and I tried to breathe through it. I just sat with the feeling and breathed deep and loud so I could hear myself. The most amazing thing happened. The moment passed and the anxiety dimished ever so slightly. Of course, it is still hovering, ready to pounce and I have the rest of the day to get through but I made it through that moment without calling.

OOOOOOhhhhhh all right I admit I called. But just to leave a message that I needed an invoice for insurance purposes. (Sneaky, huh?)

I hope you manage to feel better somehow and let the 19 year old make the phone call for a session. Hey, maybe the four year old Pink just doesn't know how to dial the number?

Peace
xoxoxoxox

[krazibean]

Pink, i understand. And, i relate. So the insight i'm about to give you is not just directed to you, its to me as well. To remind myself what T has told me countless times...

Not calling him will not "show" him anything. trust me, i know it feels like you need to "punish" him or push him away, because you felt hurt by what he said. But doing that will not hurt him in the least, it will ONLY hurt you. You will have to sit with the feelings of wanting to call and wanting that phone session, but you won't be able to have it because the stubborn tough girl side of you doesn't want to need anyone. But the child is screaming for you to call him. You need to do it for her. I bet you anything, if you asked, he probably totally forgot about saying that if you could not do a session you could have a phone session. And, if he didn't forget, maybe he was thinking that since you didn't bring it up you don't want it, or you don't need it. OR...he is trying to get the child to use her little voice...and ask for what she needs.

About the comment he said that made you back off.... maybe you need to really look at why you call him so much (again, i'm not trying to lecture you, because i'm in the EXACT same boat). Maybe you need to TELL him what you want from the phone calls, and the reason you call so much is because your not getting exactly what you want?

I know its hard, but can you look back and read your post and understand where you are self-sabatoging yourself? Again, i'm speaking for both of us. I am in this situation now as well.

[krazibean]

sorry more to add LOL

Extreme. Think about that word. Extreme love for him, then he says one comment about phone calls (which he's not even banning you from, and you go to the other extreme of "piece of ***** therapist who is a liar."

Extreme is also a word that describes me very well.

[sunrise]

I think the phone session issue is getting mixed up with the issue of your "high need" calls when you are highly anxious, feel you may SI, etc. To me, a "phone session" sounds like a scheduled therapy session on the phone, to take the place of a regular session because you and your T's schedules don't mesh. Can you remind your T that he told you before that when you only had the Saturday session, you would schedule a phone session for sometime during the week? And see what his availability is for the phone session?

As for the issue of the other phone calls, I can understand why you would be hurt. It sounds like in the past your T has accepted your high need unscheduled calls and this has been very helpful to you, and now he is not going to be quite as accommodating. It sounds like he is trying to separate "emergency" calls out from the other calls and wants to make sure you are safe when there is high need. It sounds like you may feel abandoned by this, as it is not as "generous" as the way he previously reacted to your high need calls. It is always hard to take when the one in power changes the "rules" like that. It's also a reminder that the T holds more power in the relationship, and that is never a fun concept to butt up against. But this seems unrelated to scheduling an official phone session with him, so can you go ahead with that?

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
In my mind, I have ruined his life by making these phone calls.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Although I think you know you're not ruining his life with your calls, I do imagine it would be very stressful to be a T and field calls from clients who say they are going to hurt themselves. What pressure to have to try to find the right thing to say so the client will remain safe and abandon the destructive impulse. I can understand why a T would want such a call to go to a facility with more resources.

[Perna]

Hmmm, tough one. You could remind the little girl how hurt she is and kind of ask her if standing on "principle" is best for her interests?

I'd just bring in a voodoo doll representation of him, with pins already in it and sweetly ask to discuss the whole phone thing again, especially the part about the promise of phone sessions if you couldn't meet and which were not covered in the last discussion.

[MissCharlotte]

I know that we all have different "contracts" regarding contact with T between sessions. This is my take on it.

Contact with our therapists between sessions rests on a continuum. That continuum is fluid and dynamic. It changes over time. It has to because we change over time. The relationship changes and T changes. Therapy is not static. Because of this it would be unproductive to make a hard and fast rule regarding phone calls.

Once, T and I discussed this and he said that his responsiveness will be developmentally appropriate for me. (Or something along those lines.)

So, I think there are many more phone call opportunities than "high needs" and "scheduled phone session." In between these two reasons rest many valid phone calls to T including a need to make contact with your primary attachment; a desire to speak with your T because you are working something through; a question about something that happened in-session; sharing an important event; an emotional crash that may lead to self-harm but not suicide;

Anyway, these are some of the reasons I have called T. Now, I do not have any e-mail contact with him and use my calls as judiciously as possible.

I agree, Pink, T wants you safe. But he said he would never tell you not to call.

[sunrise]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
sister said:
So, I think there are many more phone call opportunities than "high needs" and "scheduled phone session."

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Yes, I agree and didn't mean to suggest there are only these two. Pink, I had the sense that your T welcomed these other phone call opportunities to which Sister refers--he is just worried about his ability to keep you safe for those "high need" calls. So I hope you, the executive Pinksoil, can convince your little girl to not get the different types of phone calls all muddled and to proceed with scheduling your phone session and continuing to make calls to your T for support and attunement. From what you've written, your T sounds great on the phone! I hope you can continue to take advantage of that.

On Saturday, T said, "Maybe one day I will get a message from you that says-- Hey, I'm feeling really good today and I just wanted you to know." I gave him a strange look and he said, "Oh well, it's just a little dream of mine, I guess."

[sunrise]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
pinksoil said:
On Saturday, T said, "Maybe one day I will get a message from you that says-- Hey, I'm feeling really good today and I just wanted you to know." I gave him a strange look and he said, "Oh well, it's just a little dream of mine, I guess."

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">I love that. I hope you will do that one day too, pink. T's really love it when we are feeling good. I always think of my T as someone to go share the painful stuff with, but he can hold my joy too. It's a nice gift to share.

[Flowerb]

This is probably not helpful but it feels like a pretty big change and kind of sudden. Did you ask him if something happened - perhaps a supervision session? Or something that got out of control with another client?

Especially the last part about hoping for a "good day" message. That is sweet and a wonderful hope for you - but it sounds a little like a hope for himself too.

Poor T - and poor you. Changes are very hard in these situations.

Hey there,

I think I understand the feelings of betrayal and anger and hurt. My therapist has said things (like about emailing me) and then not mentioned it again and not done it either. And... I have considerable difficulty bringing it up with him. Part of me is really hurt / angry that he forgot. And I kind of think that if he forgot then I guess it wasn't all that important to him... And it hurts, yeah.

I was hurt when my therapist said something about 'it is okay if you email me twice', too. He had always led me to believe that emails weren't a problem. That it was okay for me to email him. Then it seemed like out of the blue he was putting limits on my emailing him. And I didn't understand what I'd done wrong. And I felt like I'd been punished for something, yeah. And I vowed that I wouldn't email him ever again :-(

Now... I feel calmer about all of that. It hurts that he forgets things he has said to me and / or things that I have said to him. But then... Sometimes I forget things he has said to me too, so I guess right now I have a different perspective on that (one where I don't feel so hurt).

Maybe... He could do with a little positive reinforcement with respect to your finding a benefit to phoning him? I just wondered (from what you said) whether it is that he feels unable to help you over the phone when you aren't in a very good place when you call him. That maybe that was why he suggested your calling crisis services. Maybe if you could say something like 'thanks for taking the time to talk to me, it means a lot' or 'it helped me' or 'I feel a bit better now' or something encouraging like that, then he will feel happier about your calling him?

[LittleMouse]

Pink don't mean to hurt your feelings but I don't think your Therapist is a lying &%$#&* therapist. From reading so many of your posts I think he is trying to encourage some firmer boundraies for you and not let the little "girl" run loose whenever she feels like it with respect to these phone calls. Especially as it related to SI issues. If everytime you SI or think about SI and you call him and make contact that in a way rewards you for your SI since you are so attached to him to begin with. Perhaps you use the SI to make contact with him and manipulate the therapy situation by demanding that he meet you needs at will. Part of the therapy process is to learn to become less dependent on our therapist and to learn to manage mini crisis on our own utilizing the things we have learned in therapy. I think your therapist is right on in beginning to gently get you to become less dependent on these "must have" phone calls in between sessions.

Just to clarify to everyone, my T in no way, shape, or form, told me that I needed to limit the amount of phone calls that I make to him. Just the words of how many phone calls that I did make to him, coming out of his mouth, made me realize what a needy, dependent, %#@&amp;#! I am and I want to die every time I think about it.

And yes I have used the SI stuff to manipulate him in the past and we both know it bc we have both acknowledged it.

The reason I called him a lying %#@&amp;#! is because he made a statement about having two sessions per week always-- whether by phone or in person-- and this week he did not mention a phone session-- and that hurt. No, I did not ask for one. I just thought that was the way things were. Perhaps he forgot, who knows....

What he was trying to enforce about the phone calls was that if I was going to call I needed to have something in mind that he could do over the phone to actually help me. It really had nothing to do with the number of the phone calls.

Alex, I agree-- I think a lot of times he really just doesn't know what to do over the phone. Some calls have really helped, some haven't. It is something T and I will both have to figure out.

[Perna]

No explanations needed, we know it was all his fault :-)

[ECHOES]

your icon

Hey,

I'm wary of terms like 'manipulative' and 'attention seeking' and so on. I think that people have legitimate needs for attention and emotional support, but that it can be a tricky thing indeed to figure how to best elicit those things from others when they are needed. We tend to do what worked for us in the past. And if we had to be theatrical or display a certain intensity in order to elicit that caring from our parents, then that can be something that carries over. Sometimes... The sad truth is that it seems as though there is little to be done to really convey how bad things are but to hurt oneself. I really do understand that.

But that being said, new relationships open up possibilities for new ways of relating.

I'm thinking of something that Linehan says. She talks about how she had a client who she was struggling with a little. The client was talking about how crappy things were and about how she hadn't made any gains in therapy, and about how there wasn't any hope. Linehan said that she felt fairly helpless (something that nobody really likes to feel) and that when she tried to draw the clients attention to the positive gains that had been made the client was dismissive of those gains. Eventually... It transpired that the client said that she was afraid to tell her when she was feeling better or when she had had a good week. That sometimes she did seem to be ticking along okay, but that at other times things really did feel truely aweful. That she was scared that if she said that things really were okay sometimes that Linehan would stop trying to help her so much.

I know that you do have good days / weeks sometimes, and that you do tell him when you are. That you do joke around sometimes and have a little fun. So I'm not saying that the situation is exactly the same, or anything like that. I'm just using it to illustrate that sometimes therapists need their efforts validated. It gives them a little strength to carry on through the hard times. Now, I'm not saying that one should put on a happy face to cheer them up. I'm not saying that one shouldn't talk about how hard things are. I am saying that there are things that we can do to kind of look after our therapists and help them out. And it seems to me that oftentimes you really do do that. And that... It sounds to me that that is what your therapist is kind of asking for right now. That he is saying that he feels like talking to you on the phone when you are really bad... Doesn't seem helpful to you. So... I guess you either need to reassure him in some way, or you need to think about cutting back on those kinds of phone calls, yeah.

Can you ask him about how he said that you would always have two sessions - by phone if necessary. But then that didn't seem to happen? I wouldn't have the courage to ask. But I know that sometimes you have the courage to ask / say things that I don't have the courage to do.

> Some calls have really helped, some haven't.

Do you think that it is that something is different about you, or about him, or about the both of you that makes the difference between a helpful call and a not so helpful call?

Even if a call doesn't help. Even if a call doesn't leave you feeling better. I guess you could thank him for taking the time... I don't know. Maybe the problem runs a little deeper. Do you think that maybe he wants to talk to you about the difference between a helpful and a not so helpful call? Sounds like he might be thinking it has to do with the intensity of your distress... Does that sound right to you?