Feeling in hell over therapist’s vacation

Male therapists and psychiatrists should never physically touch female clients/patients. The permutations and combinations of what could go wrong are infinite. His behavior is way over the line. Have you told your psychiatrist that your therapist has been physical with you? He should know.

Yes, I told pdoc at the last session. Granted, he’s also given my father a hug at the end of our couple of family therapy sessions... so that makes it seem like maybe it’s just his “thing.” The brief hugs haven’t concerned me, really - but the “holding” comments kind of do.

Ok, my T DOES hold me and I find what you are saying super creepy! My T holds me because of unmet developmental needs NOT to comfort me when I am upset/emotional. The only condition on the holding is that I MUST always be the one to initiate it. My T brought it up in a session by saying “with some clients with histories similar to yours being held has helped them. If that is something you want to try you will need to ask”. We then talked about it extensively over three sessions. What would it look like, his boundaries, my boundaries, expectations, fears... then we started it. When he holds me it is NOTHING like what you are saying your T is pantomime Skype. There is a pillow between us and his arm is over my shoulders. That’s it. Nothing more, no coddling, petting, patting... just his arm around me and a pillow between us. I have huge attachment issues and CPTSD. T and I do a wide variety of things from psychodrama to EMDR to CBT.
What I am reading doesn’t bother me as far as what is being done. All of this IS possible in a healthy T relationship. However, WHY it is being done is sketchy and HOW it is being done is outright wrong. I am glad you have Pdoc.

Thank you for your input - I’m actually surprised about the holding you describe! I’m guessing your T has a “humanistic” sort of practice? I feel like most therapists would feel like even this sort of touch isn’t ok/a routine part of therapy... BUT that said, it sounds like your T has very strict rules around it and so on, so there isn’t any body contact...?

Do you mean that he has one arm draped around you, with a pillow between your sides? Or that he has both arms around you from behind...?
(Sorry to ask super detailed questions lol, I’m just trying to picture this).

I’m a bit startled by the fact that YOU’RE startled by what my T has said, even though you do this guided holding with your T... oh dear. This is all so confusing.

Because my T does hold me I though it would add a different perspective. T sits on the couch up against the armrest to his left. He then puts a pillow up against his side (it is a bigger, square decorative pillow and comes up an inch or two below his armpit. I curl up against the pillow and he drapes his right arm over my shoulder and his hand rests on my elbow.
Yes, my T is extremely humanistic! He has a PhD in clinical psychology and has been in practice for around 30 years. I do sometimes think there is a little parental countertansference but he keeps it under control and I can always ask him about it if it concerns me. My T is pretty firmly in the grey area of boundaries with me by most T’s standards. What makes it OK for me is that we always talk about grey area stuff a lot first, it is always about my healing and growth, I always have to ask for it.
My T has initiated contact with me only once. I am always 15-20min early for session and it was 20min past my appointment time. He called, clearly upset and scared thinking that something must have happened. I had written the wrong time down.
I do also have experience with a T that created an unhealthy dependency with me. She was a “trauma specialist” but IMO had not worked through her own traumas. We only met once a week but there was almost daily contact via email between sessions and I always carried a stuffed animal she had given me. She was intentionally trying to create mom transference. She also did a hypnosis session with me which was recorded and I was to listen to throughout the week. It was SO inappropriate! So I got really dependent on her, struggled more than ever in life outside of therapy (got thrown out of graduate school) and didn’t understand what was being done to me or that therapy wasn’t supposed to be like this. Then one day I came to session and she hit me with “If you want to keep working with me things are going to change NOW”. Then she pulled away all the supports to reinact the abandonment trauma... it didn’t work but I was traumatized. I ended up leaving everything and moving 12 hrs away because it was the only way I could get away from her and her influence (knowing it was wrong but wanting and needing it SO badly).
No worries about all the questions. I am pretty open about things.

Woah... what happened with your previous T is really intense! Did she say she was trying to re-enact abandonment, specifically? Or I wonder if she had gotten in trouble regarding her methods, from another patient, and that’s why she suddenly changed things up with you...?

Did she know how much it all impacted you? Did it ever become a legal thing? Gosh, I’m really glad you have a better T now, but sorry you went through this.

I understand how addicting all of this can become. I’m scared at how addicted I might be to my own T, and how all of this seems to be unraveling.

The old T stopped practicing for many years and has just started again under a totally different kind of license. I did not take any action except to get away but I know there were troubles with other clients. So I am guessing her license was at least suspended. She is now in a town 4 hours away from where she was and practicing under a different name and different credentials so I am sure she is just as sketchy now.
I was so traumatized by her that my body started shutting down. I went to the ER and they could not find a cause for my physical symptoms so I was quarantined for two weeks. It wasn’t until I was in another state that I caught on to how damaging it had been.
Also, the last session when I told her I was leaving was hell! If it were to happen all over I would call after hours and cancel the last appointment. She begged, pleaded, cried, blamed me, told me I would never heal, accused me of avoiding treatment... anything she could do to keep me there.

A different name??? Wow, that’s creepy as hell. I’m really glad you got away.

Blueberry, I really don't think this therapist is at all good for you. The more I read, the more concerned I become. This therapist has no respect for your autonomy. I understand you are avoidant, but I think you are sort of gaslighting yourself when you start questioning whether being turned off by his behavior is symptomatic of some sort of pathology on your part. If you had a secure attachment style, you would also be turned off.

The texts were not appropriate. You have repeatedly told him you are fine and that should have indicated to him that additional contact was unnecessary. Texting you on Christmas Eve and Boxing Day was actually kind of intrusive - especially the second one since it was so clear you established that you would be the one who would contact him next, yet he contacted you again and had the nerve to ask you to send him an update (which I'm sure he would have then responded to). It's just ridiculous and verges on harassment.

I would get rid of this guy ASAP and block his number.

Also, does he know about your inheritance?

Your T is not interested in your personal wants or needs. You stated them. He disregarded them. Actually, it would be more accurate to say that he violated them.

WHY did he violate them?
Because his needs are bigger.
What could his needs be in this situation?
Either financial (you are the source of his financial supply, so he needs to actively maintain that supply) or psychological (he is meeting his own emotional needs through you - thus also needs to maintain his supply).
The only other reason I could think of for him to disregard your needs in this ONE tiny situation of contacting you during his holiday even though you have explicitly stated that you do not need it, is that he is a completely inept therapist.

I can't think of one possible reason for his behavior in this one situation that places him in the role of a good therapist who has your needs and your psychological welfare as a motivating factor for his behavior. All of them are creepy and predatory. All of them have you as the supply for his own narcissistic needs.
All of the good stuff you get from him is to keep you in the position of being his supplier. He HAS to make you feel like you need him so he can get the thing he wants out of you. He HAS to make you feel dependent, loved, cared for, or you would walk away. And then he won't be able to get your money anymore.

The reality of his Boxing day email is that he completely disregarded your explicit wants and needs in contacting you. And he wants you to let him know how you are getting on over the Christmas Break.
Why? Because he is scared that he is losing his psychological control over you.

Of course he does.

Blueberry... you KNOW this isn't right. You know this.
It's that dang human need for attachment and his ability to manipulate that in you that keeps you from allowing yourself to fully recognise this situation for what it is. He is using his knowledge of psychology and attachment to ensure that you keep feeling like you need and want this more and more. Hs is feeding you enough of the "good stuff" to hook into your human need so he can feed off your funds.
He's like a f&&%&*&% leech, anaesthetizing you at the site of the wound so you won't even know what he's doing until it's too late.

@Blueberry21

I have a question about your Pdoc. Does your Pdoc belong to the same medical group as T?
This is my emotional baggage but I wanted to be well away from the abusivePdoc in my case so that I would be out of his referral and friend circle. I wanted an objective opinion from a mental health provider about my situation. I was successful in finding someone more than an hour away.

One of my concerns in your case is that if they belong to the same medical group/partner ship, they may circle the wagons and minimize the harm done to you to save their asses in the event you sue him/them.

Can you find a mental health care provider, maybe even your family doctor...someone outside of their circle, to ask about this relationship?

This is also my stuff, @Blueberry21 , it would seem to be common sense. But common sense wasn’t common enough for me in my case-

But do not give T or Pdoc access to your inheritance $ account. Do not let them tell you they will hold onto it for you and dole it out when you need it..so you don’t spend it all.
Do NOT.

It might not be about money. It may be that he’s getting his own emotional needs met by being needed. Not saying that makes it ok either, as it should be about the clients needs. Just that it could be emotional not financial.

It could be a few things. But in my case it was several issues. The Pdoc got his emotional, sexual and financial needs met. He knew I had some money. Now it’s his money and I’ll never see it again.

I couldn’t sleep tonight without mentioning it to OP. The same thing happened to someone I know several years ago. Emotional/sexual/ financial exploitation....she won her civil case and got her inheritance back.

You're right that I'm kind of gaslighting myself by making it "my issue" - thank you so much for helping with the reality testing, here. You make a good point that someone with a secure attachment style would be turned off by this behavior, too.

And yes, he definitely knows about my inheritance, unfortunately.

This scares the crap out of me because it may actually be true. I can totally see how this could be the reality of the situation... even if it's subconscious on his part (which is the kinder way of interpreting it).






This is a really good question and I had that thought as well. Pdoc is an independent consultant for the clinic where I was inpatient last year. He referred me to T (who has a private practice) at the end of my inpatient stay, because T is a specialist in trauma and PTSD. So far, pdoc has been very receptive to all of this feedback and seems to be on my side, though he will probably need to talk to T at some point and get "his side of the story."


The good thing is that I have record of all the payments and sessions, plus texts and emails, so it's not just a 'he-said, she-said' situation. And I have shown some of this to pdoc, so he doesn't think I'm just some hysterical nutjob. He agrees that it's all concerning.


That said, if the time comes eventually and I feel like I need to, I will get a completely separate opinion about all of this - someone who doesn't know pdoc or T.


No, I'm in control of my own finances and there's no chance of this happening in my situation - but thank you for your concern and I'm so, so sorry that happened to you.


Yeah, this is the big question... which needs is this about? If he were to admit that he's become too emotionally involved and that he then had to refer me to someone else because he lost neutrality, then this would be easier for me to accept, as opposed to the idea that he's exploiting me financially.


I'm so sorry that your money is gone, precaryous. I'm glad your friend was able to get hers back, eventually.

Sigh.

He's gotten teary eyed in my sessions before... once to the point of sniffing a couple times, to keep from actually crying. It was an angry crying, and his voice got sort of growly as he said (speaking about my abusive mom) "It wasn't right, Blueberry. It was never okay and I'm so, so sorry you had to go through that."

I feel as though he loves me, at least in some way (at least in a paternal way).

Sigh. Some of his graduate research was on ethics. He's done various relief work trips in really difficult conditions. All of that seems "real" to me, and doesn't make him seem like the sort who would be predatory.

But at the same time, everything you guys are pointing out makes sense. His messages ARE overbearing. The frequency of therapy COULD be looked at as manipulative, to encourage dependency.

I wonder what changed for T six-seven weeks ago when he upped your sessions to up to ten hours a week? Is his practice failing? How could he maintain a practice with many other clients if he was spending ten hours a week with you?
Is he desperate for money?
I wonder?

I once saw semi-celebrity psychiatrist in L.A. He had a popular radio talk show (like Kelsey Grammer’s U.S. sitcom, Frazier). He then landed a late night TV talk show, as well.

I listened to his radio/tv show...read one of his books and he seemed so genuine and practical. I thought, ‘this guy won’t kid around, he’ll help find out what’s wrong with me and suggest a treatment.’ It was a two hour drive one way but I booked an appointment with this guy. He charged something like $2500.00 for a two hour session. I saw him TWICE.

I’m not rich..far from it. He taped the sessions and his instructions were for me to listen to my own session and write down when I noticed I said this or that. He had me filling out index cards and taping them to my wall to make sense of my history. I didn’t feel any better, in fact, I felt worse.

This psychiatrist passed away several years later. I’ve read articles about him since...that he had lost his talk shows and was desperate for money.
You never know.

Wow, what a story... I'm sorry his sessions proved so worthless and that you wasted your time and money! Ugh. Well, I've dropped such a bomb of money on therapy lately that I can certainly relate (granted, it hasn't been $2500/session, but I have no idea whether my decision-making has been any better, really).

The short answer to your question is that T sees me in either late morning or early afternoon, during a time slot when he doesn't typically have clients. His other clients are mainly clustered around lunch hour and evening times.


His high rates mean that he doesn't have to see as many clients, presumably... but who knows. I'm not around in the evenings, so I have no idea how busy he actually is at that time. There are a few regular lunch time clients who I know by sight. But I'm sure that I'm his highest paying client. No wonder I get so much attention, I suppose.

I hope he's enjoying his vacation that I've effectively funded.