[Val12]

I feel like once again my therapy with a T is starting to go nowhere. It seems like when I start with a T, it is going strong and we are actually do and talk about meaningful things (learning DBT, learning CBT, planning to address PTSD), but after some time, we stop getting anywhere in the sessions and I come out feeling like I just had a 45 minute pointless chat.

My overall problems are that I have nearly 30 years of untreated PTSD and have lived in chronic fear for most of my life. I constantly feel overwhelmed by even the smallest task so I get nothing done and am in bad standing at school and work. I feel depressed all the time. I always feel rejected in social interactions and attempting to socialize results in a downward spiral of my mental state. I have many phobias that keep me at home a lot. My OCD is off the charts.

Here are some of my most recent experiences with therapists:

CBT therapist: started out filling out sheets for homework to challenge my thoughts and reviewed them in session. I couldn't shift my thinking so we stopped doing it and our sessions became discussing the drama-of-the-week with school and work and him trying to convince me I needed to drop both.

DBT therapist: filled out diary card for a few months, but was always overwhelmed by having to do it daily so we stopped. Our sessions then became me talking about a difficulty with socializing with others and how each attempt to make connection sharply increased my anxiety. She would tell me we need to figure out a way for me to not have this experience, but we never did. The most we'd accomplish was writing scripts for phone calls I had to make.

OCD therapist: had me fill out a Y-Box and told me she never in her 25 year career had seen so many things endorsed and such a high score. We spent two months of sessions of her trying to figure out where to start because I had so many issues. After the 12th session and her saying she still didn't know where to begin, I never returned.

PTSD therapist: Seeing now and we went through me recording and listening to retellings of my traumas. I realized more specifically about how my traumas are linked to who I have become, but not what to do about it. We have spent a month having conversations about how I need to start living life and I need to figure out how, but our sessions are now a discussion of little random tidbits about my conditions without any concrete action or plans. The only thing to come out is that I should find a pursue hobbies, but that doesn't help with my debilitating anxiety or OCD.

Maybe it's just me and I am bad at therapy, but I want to feel like I'm making progress instead of talking with no result. What can I do?

[here today]

Originally Posted by Val12

. . .
Maybe it's just me and I am bad at therapy, but I want to feel like I'm making progress instead of talking with no result. What can I do?

Or, maybe it's just therapy and there isn't really anything there to help you very much. That's what I found after 50+ years of trying. Maybe they can help some people and maybe there are others they can't and they don't know how to tell the difference. Plus -- what is a person they can't help to do instead? That's something that was horribly fearsome/impossible for me to consider. And, the therapists didn't help me with that, either.

As you said, you "want to feel like I'm making progress instead of talking with no result" but maybe the unfortunate fact is you can't make much because therapy and therapists don't really know how to help you much. I finally came to that very, very sad conclusion about my own situation.

Fortunately, because I would have been terribly lost without some kind of human connection, I lucked into a good support group, and that has been enormously helpful. You also wrote

I always feel rejected in social interactions and attempting to socialize results in a downward spiral of my mental state

I definitely understand that, too, and yet -- I have found that it is only by being with a group where I am NOT rejected that that experience has a chance of being changed, by contact with a reality where that doesn't happen. One-on-one therapy was maybe too intense for that -- if the therapist didn't like me, or like something I did, then it turned around in my mind to where I was a bad person. In a group, it is easier for my faus pas and social mistakes to begin to feel just like faus pas, or missteps, and I no longer go all the way down the mental spiral all of the time. Sometimes, yes, but not all the time and I don't always stay there forever.

It's like the chicken and the egg: I had to have some experiences of NOT being rejected before I could feel not totally bad and rejection-worthy all the time, with then the defenses of trying to be "good" or people-pleasing in various ways -- or then else, sometimes, rebel.

Therapists just really didn't "get" me and I always thought it was my fault. Maybe it's just the way I was and it was the therapists who considered that a "fault", rather than just me -- and OK, even if somewhat different.

[Rive.]

Originally Posted by Val12

Maybe it's just me and I am bad at therapy, but I want to feel like I'm making progress instead of talking with no result. What can I do?

I'm no expert but I don't believe it is all about one person, i.e. you. There are two of you in the equation. Yes, it is partly you but it is also them. Maybe you haven't found the right therapists and/or they don't have the skill set you need. Maybe you need another modality.

One thing I note in your post is how some therapists you had said: 'let's work on X' and then you state how they never did. I would invite you to be pro-active in this respect. In other words, bring it up with them: 'hey, T you suggested we work on X. How do we go about it?'

You also need to follow through if they say something and don't address it. Therapy requires the active contribution of both participants.

[koru_kiwi]

i too found myself in a similar situation after years of talk therapy, going no where and my trauma symptoms exasperating. i was convinced i was doing therapy all wrong and had reached my all time personal 'rock bottom'. i found myself contemplating SU because i thought i was too broken and beyond repair.

have you read Bessel van der Kolks book, 'The Body Keeps the Score'? if not, i highly recommend it. also, check out Bessel on youtube. he talks about much of the same info that is in his book on his conference videos.

it was reading Bessels book where i learned how body centred therapies (i.e. somatic experiencing, EMDR, neurofeedback, yoga) have been successful at addressing trauma because of the way these methods help to calm an over 'aroused' or hijacked amygdala that causes the fight, flight, fawn response and leads to emotional dysregulation and anxiety in ways that talk therapy alone fails to do. it was because of this book that i learned about neurfeedback therapy and found a practitioner who not only could do the neurofeedback, but was familiar with doing neurofedback for complex PTSD/developmental trauma. i did the neurofeedback in conjunction to remaining with my talk T of many years. for me, the neurofeedback was successful in calming my overall anxiety, dysregulation, and fears. as i became more calm and less triggered in therapy sessions, i was finally able to start making significant progress in talk therapy. i ended talk therapy just over a year after having started the neurofeedback. it's been three years now since ending therapy and i continue to remain calm and content about life. realistically, i will always have issues to continue to work on, but life feels quite manageable now with my trauma symptoms no longer becoming overwhelming or crippling.

i'm sorry that you are finding yourself in this frustrating and disheartening place. just know that you are not alone with having to struggle with contemporary psychotherapy methodologies not working to address your traumas. i've encountered many on various online forums who have had similar experiences, especially when it comes to addressing CPTSD. unfortunately, i feel the 'good' therapists who are competent and experienced enough to address complex/ developmental traumas are few and far between. But don't give up on educating yourself to find the path of healing that feels right for you.

[Val12]

Originally Posted by koru_kiwi

i too found myself in a similar situation after years of talk therapy, going no where and my trauma symptoms exasperating. i was convinced i was doing therapy all wrong and had reached my all time personal 'rock bottom'. i found myself contemplating SU because i thought i was too broken and beyond repair.

have you read Bessel van der Kolks book, 'The Body Keeps the Score'? if not, i highly recommend it. also, check out Bessel on youtube. he talks about much of the same info that is in his book on his conference videos.

it was reading Bessels book where i learned how body centred therapies (i.e. somatic experiencing, EMDR, neurofeedback, yoga) have been successful at addressing trauma because of the way these methods help to calm an over 'aroused' or hijacked amygdala that causes the fight, flight, fawn response and leads to emotional dysregulation and anxiety in ways that talk therapy alone fails to do. it was because of this book that i learned about neurfeedback therapy and found a practitioner who not only could do the neurofeedback, but was familiar with doing neurofedback for complex PTSD/developmental trauma. i did the neurofeedback in conjunction to remaining with my talk T of many years. for me, the neurofeedback was successful in calming my overall anxiety, dysregulation, and fears. as i became more calm and less triggered in therapy sessions, i was finally able to start making significant progress in talk therapy. i ended talk therapy just over a year after having started the neurofeedback. it's been three years now since ending therapy and i continue to remain calm and content about life. realistically, i will always have issues to continue to work on, but life feels quite manageable now with my trauma symptoms no longer becoming overwhelming or crippling.

i'm sorry that you are finding yourself in this frustrating and disheartening place. just know that you are not alone with having to struggle with contemporary psychotherapy methodologies not working to address your traumas. i've encountered many on various online forums who have had similar experiences, especially when it comes to addressing CPTSD. unfortunately, i feel the 'good' therapists who are competent and experienced enough to address complex/ developmental traumas are few and far between. But don't give up on educating yourself to find the path of healing that feels right for you.

Thank you for this! It was so helpful to read about! I've heard about these therapies by name only. How did you go about finding a provider and how long was the neurofeedback therapy? Were you able to get insurance coverage for it?

[Val12]

Originally Posted by Rive.

I'm no expert but I don't believe it is all about one person, i.e. you. There are two of you in the equation. Yes, it is partly you but it is also them. Maybe you haven't found the right therapists and/or they don't have the skill set you need. Maybe you need another modality.

One thing I note in your post is how some therapists you had said: 'let's work on X' and then you state how they never did. I would invite you to be pro-active in this respect. In other words, bring it up with them: 'hey, T you suggested we work on X. How do we go about it?'

You also need to follow through if they say something and don't address it. Therapy requires the active contribution of both participants.

It feels universally like I'll bring it up again and the T will say it's a good question and then the conversation gets side-tracked and I never get an answer. I often sit after the session wondering how I started out asking about A, but the session ended up being about Z.

[Val12]

Originally Posted by here today

Or, maybe it's just therapy and there isn't really anything there to help you very much. That's what I found after 50+ years of trying. Maybe they can help some people and maybe there are others they can't and they don't know how to tell the difference. Plus -- what is a person they can't help to do instead? That's something that was horribly fearsome/impossible for me to consider. And, the therapists didn't help me with that, either.

As you said, you "want to feel like I'm making progress instead of talking with no result" but maybe the unfortunate fact is you can't make much because therapy and therapists don't really know how to help you much. I finally came to that very, very sad conclusion about my own situation.

Fortunately, because I would have been terribly lost without some kind of human connection, I lucked into a good support group, and that has been enormously helpful. You also wrote


I definitely understand that, too, and yet -- I have found that it is only by being with a group where I am NOT rejected that that experience has a chance of being changed, by contact with a reality where that doesn't happen. One-on-one therapy was maybe too intense for that -- if the therapist didn't like me, or like something I did, then it turned around in my mind to where I was a bad person. In a group, it is easier for my faus pas and social mistakes to begin to feel just like faus pas, or missteps, and I no longer go all the way down the mental spiral all of the time. Sometimes, yes, but not all the time and I don't always stay there forever.

It's like the chicken and the egg: I had to have some experiences of NOT being rejected before I could feel not totally bad and rejection-worthy all the time, with then the defenses of trying to be "good" or people-pleasing in various ways -- or then else, sometimes, rebel.

Therapists just really didn't "get" me and I always thought it was my fault. Maybe it's just the way I was and it was the therapists who considered that a "fault", rather than just me -- and OK, even if somewhat different.

I am so scared that this is true for me, that I can't be helped by therapy because I went without therapy for several decades and became a mess. Have you relied solely on support groups? Have any other treatments helped?

[here today]

Yes, being in a support group I lucked into about 5 years ago has been a big help. It's not anything organized by a MH group, just something some others in a meet up group I was in asked me to join.

I had been trying support groups for years, though, which helped some and I got used to being around other people, and telling my story. So, that may have been something that helped when I happened to meet these other people -- but that was because I was trying to get out some socially and meet other people, despite my great fear and conviction that I was not OK and that would be found out eventually and I would be rejected. And, yes, I was/am socially awkward. Some people will reject that, some won't. I lucked into these other people because we had common interests and were wanting to try to form a community.

Chicken and egg. It was devastating when I was rejected by therapists, who I was looking to to help me "change", to "become" OK, so that I could be acceptable. That didn't work. It probably did help that I became fairly familiar with different parts of myself and ideas from therapy did help with that. But a lot, if not all, of that one can do on their own, especially with a forum like this or maybe some of the other forums, like Depression, or PTSD, maybe especially Complex PTSD. Or maybe a therapy or self-help group of some sort though nothing that is set up in a way that I know of right now.

The main thing is that I feel accepted by, and a part of, a group of other people, even though we are very different in some ways. That's in contrast to my family of origin where we were all expected to be kind of the same.

Something else I think is important and that I'm "working" on now is that, with that base of feeling accepted by those other people, I'm trying to de-personalize my feeling/conviction/impulse that other people, or I, am bad. That is, It's OK for me to feel that way, It's an instinct and contains some useful information about how other people have affected me. Right now, It's more usually directed outward, at therapists who have failed me more than my dysfunctional family who like me were doing the best we could. But ultimately that is not an optimal solution, though if I can come to a better one I do not yet know.

[koru_kiwi]

Originally Posted by Val12

Thank you for this! It was so helpful to read about! I've heard about these therapies by name only. How did you go about finding a provider and how long was the neurofeedback therapy? Were you able to get insurance coverage for it?

i live in a small country where a majority of therapy is paid for out of pocket, so i did not have the option of insurance covering this nor were there a lot of practitioners to chose from near my location. i lucked out and the closet practitioner to me at the time (90 mins drive away) turned out to be the leading neurofeedback practitioner in my country who offered training to others. he was trained by Seburn Fisher, who has written an incredibly helpful book in regards to neurofeedback specifically for developmental trauma Neurofeedback in the Treatment of Developmental Trauma | Sebern Fisher

but having said that, i have heard of others being able to access insurance to help pay for neurofeedback in the States, if that is where you reside.

not sure what kind of effect that the recent world events are going to have on the access of neurofeedback now or in the future, but this site provides info on finding providers (scroll down to the middle of the page for a directory):
Find a Provider | ISNR | Find a Neurofeedback Practitioner

here is a good FAQ about neurofeedback and there are other helpful links at the bottom as well:

FAQ | Sebern Fisher