[Lola5]

I was thinking back to a DBT T I saw. He told me I could call him for free coaching between sessions for up to 15 minutes. I only called three times in the year before the following incident because I was scared of taking up too much of T's time and him hating me. I was having a major crisis due to events at school and needed some coaching from T before talking to the instructor at school. I called T and he took my call while driving. I quickly told him what was going on and asked whether I should say XYZ or not to the instructor. I kept watching the clock and trying to keep it short. T kept stopping me and asking for details (like my feelings about this and that and what this person said and that person said). I was getting worried over how long the call was taking and trying to non-awkwardly thank T and end the call to not take anymore time. T just kept talking. The call ended up being 35 minutes.


At the end of the call, T goes "these coaching calls are only supposed to be up to 15 minutes. I took 45 minutes with you (he only took 35) today, but I can't do that in the future." I panicked and said I could pay for it like it was a session and he gruffly shot out like he was mad, "no! it's...it's a gift from me." I thanked him and hung up.

The next session, T acted like nothing happened and about 10 minutes in, I said I felt bad he had spent 35 minutes on the call with me. He said it was okay. I took out the fee for one session ($300 AKA 2 weeks of work for me) and said again I can pay for the session. He got up, took the money from me, said "okay, I'll send you a receipt," put away the money and continued the session.

I remembered this a few days ago and started to wonder whether this was ethical for the T to do. I hadn't asked for a 35 minute call. He could have cut it off at 15. He probably got caught up while driving and talking to me and didn't notice the time. He knew I was a student and taking loans and working part-time while going to school full-time to pay his weekly session fees. Should he have taken my money like that?

What fees did you agree in your contract? You offered to pay twice. It is reasonable of him to assume those offers were genuine.

[*Beth*]

What I believe is that is was foolish of him to take your call while he was driving. Obviously, his attention would have been distracted. Had he waited until he was in a calmer place the call might have take only 15 or 20 minutes.

To me, the situation was awkward. He was fortunate that you paid him.

[Omers]

Fees for coaching calls should have been established the first session or negotiated when they were first offered.
It is T’s responsibility to manage their time, not yours.
If a fee had not been previously established for coaching calls then he should not have taken your money (IMO).
If boundaries need to change or be renegotiated that should happen in session and not take effect until after the discussion.
*steps off soap box*

[Lola5]

Originally Posted by comrademoomoo

What fees did you agree in your contract? You offered to pay twice. It is reasonable of him to assume those offers were genuine.

The coaching sessions were to be up to 15 minutes and free. I realized I wasn't clear in the original post. He told me his weekly fee is what it is because he offers the opportunity to call him for a coaching session outside of the regular session.

Originally Posted by BethRags

Had he waited until he was in a calmer place the call might have take only 15 or 20 minutes.

To me, the situation was awkward. He was fortunate that you paid him.

It was very awkward and drawn out. I felt weird being on speaker in his car though he said it was just him in the car.

Originally Posted by Omers

Fees for coaching calls should have been established the first session or negotiated when they were first offered.
It is T’s responsibility to manage their time, not yours.
If a fee had not been previously established for coaching calls then he should not have taken your money (IMO).
If boundaries need to change or be renegotiated that should happen in session and not take effect until after the discussion.
*steps off soap box*

Yeah, I just gave him the money to smooth over any potential awkwardness between us, but now I feel mad he had taken it since he was the one who had been dragging on the call.

[ScarletPimpernel]

My Ts have talked to me while they were driving. That's not weird imho. And both my Ts charge a prorated amount if the call goes over 15mins. Again, not weird. And you offered to pay twice. That was your choice. The only thing I could see that the T did wrong was not managing the time. However, you could've taken that responsibility too. Depends on what you agree upon. I told L it's up to her to manage her time, so if she goes over, it's not my fault or responsibility.

[*Beth*]

I would not feel okay with talking to my T while either of use were driving. No way can someone, while driving, truly concentrate on something as in-depth as therapy. The $$$ some T's make, and how they make it, boggles my mind.

[TeaVicar?]

It's unprofessional of him to conduct a coaching session while driving.

Boundaries around the 'free' call should have been discussed quickly at the start of the call.

It is the therapist's responsibility to maintain time boundaries and end the session.

It was your decision to offer to pay him, even though he refused initially. You are responsible for your actions. Were you worried about taking up too much of his time and him thinking badly of you, so you insisted on paying him but now you feel a bit duped because it was his fault the session went over?

[daisydid]

Was it ethical? Depending on what kind of T you have, yes and no. I think instead of taking your money he ought to have explored why you felt the need to pay him after he said it was a gift. I would have also asked if you had the means to pay what you were offering.

[LonesomeTonight]

I feel like, if he allows 15 minutes of coaching, he shouldn't have accepted your paying him for a full session. Plus the fact that he was driving (so it wasn't time that he'd be seeing a client anyway--at least I hope not!) Like he could have said, "If you really feel the need to pay, I'll accept $150" or something. But it's a complicated situation. I do agree that it's up to a T to hold time (and other) boundaries. I imagine that's why he said he wasn't going to charge you, because he didn't say "OK, we need to stop at 15 minutes or I'll have to charge." If your T had billed you without your offering, then I would have considered it potentially unethical--depending on what you'd signed/agreed to in the beginning, like was there something saying if your calls went beyond 15 minutes, he'd charge?


My T doesn't allow unscheduled phone calls, but he does allow email. His policy is that if it takes him more than 15 minutes to read and respond, he'll charge at 15 minute increments, like if if takes him a half hour, he'd charge half his fee (or sometimes a quarter, as I think the first 15 minutes are free?) Though he tends to send really long replies in those cases. There have been a couple times where he's said normally he'd have charged me, but he knew I'd had an extra session that week already, so he was thinking of my financial situation. Or that he took 45 minutes, but only charged me for 15 or 30. Each time I thanked him. I'm not sure what he would have done if I'd insisted on paying, if he'd have taken the money or not.

[Rive.]

No, it's not okay. He should have been mindful of the time, he kept asking you questions, he got the wrong duration (45 mins vs, 35 mins) and he snapped at you saying it was a 'gift'?! He seems rather condescending and what a way to make you feel guilty or be grateful for this supposed gift.

He should have let it slide this time and negotiated with you what happens IF you both exceed the 15 mins.

I can see why you would offer to pay but mainly as the result of a power play on his part. He should not have taken the money. I see what he did as (morally) wrong.

[Lola5]

Originally Posted by Rive.

No, it's not okay. He should have been mindful of the time, he kept asking you questions, he got the wrong duration (45 mins vs, 35 mins) and he snapped at you saying it was a 'gift'?! He seems rather condescending and what a way to make you feel guilty or be grateful for this supposed gift.

He should have let it slide this time and negotiated with you what happens IF you both exceed the 15 mins.

I can see why you would offer to pay but mainly as the result of a power play on his part. He should not have taken the money. I see what he did as (morally) wrong.

Looking back, I feel like that is what should have happened, that we should have discussed what will occur if sessions go over. I was afraid to lose the relationship. I now realize that I was still in the midst of my crisis when I saw him again and offered to pay so it affected my actions.

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

I feel like, if he allows 15 minutes of coaching, he shouldn't have accepted your paying him for a full session...like was there something saying if your calls went beyond 15 minutes, he'd charge?

My T doesn't allow unscheduled phone calls, but he does allow email. His policy is that if it takes him more than 15 minutes to read and respond, he'll charge at 15 minute increments, like if if takes him a half hour, he'd charge half his fee (or sometimes a quarter, as I think the first 15 minutes are free?) ...

There was nothing in the contract ever about what would happen if we go over. It was just that the sessions are capped at 15 min so going over is not an option.

Wow I'd be anxious about getting charged for 15min increments for answering my emails. Honestly I'd be worried they would lie and say they took more time than they did, but that is me and my history with Ts.

Originally Posted by daisydid

Was it ethical? Depending on what kind of T you have, yes and no. I think instead of taking your money he ought to have explored why you felt the need to pay him after he said it was a gift. I would have also asked if you had the means to pay what you were offering.

I think he knew his gruff response made it clear he was unhappy about the time he had spent so he understood I picked up on it and that was why I was paying him.

Originally Posted by TeaVicar?

Were you worried about taking up too much of his time and him thinking badly of you, so you insisted on paying him but now you feel a bit duped because it was his fault the session went over?

Yes, I was still in the middle of my crisis and needed his help so I didn't want to lose the relationship. I wanted to smooth things over and make sure he didn't hate me so gave him the money. Now I hate myself and feel like I was a doormat (as I always am).

Originally Posted by BethRags

I would not feel okay with talking to my T while either of use were driving. No way can someone, while driving, truly concentrate on something as in-depth as therapy. The $$$ some T's make, and how they make it, boggles my mind.

It's crazy how much he charges.

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

. Depends on what you agree upon. I told L it's up to her to manage her time, so if she goes over, it's not my fault or responsibility.

See we never agreed I would need to keep time because his words and contract said the sessions can at most be 15 minutes so longer was never an option.

[nottrustin]

Hoe long ago did tgis happen,

I feel like the T should have treated this as a therapeutic issue, as this happened during a therapy session, and the T shouldn't have gotten up and taken your money.

Also assuming what you're saying about the contract is correct, your offer of voluntarily paying extra sounds like it would be a gift, in response to what the T had afterwards said was a 'gift' of extra time (which the T is responsible for managing the T's time), what's his/your policies on gifts?