Touch therapy

Lostislost · Sep 23, 2020, 03:32 AM

I brought all the unmet needs stuff (another thread here) up with T yesterday. He said he trained with a woman who went on to do some kind of touch therapy, where she holds people, naked sometimes...verging on sexual but not quite. Depending what they want. I did not know this was a thing.

Anyone done anything like that? Would you do anything like that if you had the chance?

Gettingitsoon · Sep 23, 2020, 06:13 AM

I would love hugs if they were given freely. Anything more does not appeal to me.

quietlylost · Sep 23, 2020, 06:14 AM

I've never heard of it. I don't think I'd be comfortable with it myself.

ArtleyWilkins · Sep 23, 2020, 08:18 AM

Naked? No way in heck! That honestly does not sound ethical at all.

I do think some people benefit from touch in therapy - done with safe boundaries and solid ethics.

I would definitely not want touch therapy. Coming from a history of sexual abuse, that would not have ever felt safe or appropriate.

nottrustin · Sep 23, 2020, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lostislost

I brought all the unmet needs stuff (another thread here) up with T yesterday. He said he trained with a woman who went on to do some kind of touch therapy, where she holds people, naked sometimes...verging on sexual but not quite. Depending what they want. I did not know this was a thing.

Anyone done anything like that? Would you do anything like that if you had the chance?

I would have zero interest. It takes a lot for me to trust people enough to want a hug and even then I need to be in the right space emotionally. I also only want hugs that happen organically through a caring relationship not something that happens solely as a business transaction.

ArtieTheSequal · Sep 23, 2020, 10:11 AM

Less than zero interest if that's even possible, the idea of naked is appalling to me.

normal regular hugs, yes. Before the pandemic/zoom sessions anyway, t and I hugged at the end of every session. It started one time well into therapy when one day she said she felt like she wanted to give me a hug and I said yes please and then after that, one or the other of us would ask first, and then at some point I don't remember when it just became a thing.

Lostislost · Sep 23, 2020, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtieTheSequal

Less than zero interest if that's even possible, the idea of naked is appalling to me.

normal regular hugs, yes. Before the pandemic/zoom sessions anyway, t and I hugged at the end of every session. It started one time well into therapy when one day she said she felt like she wanted to give me a hug and I said yes please and then after that, one or the other of us would ask first, and then at some point I don't remember when it just became a thing.

I think, if me and my T had regular physical contact like you do, that would be enough for me.
It sounds really nice.

*Beth* · Sep 23, 2020, 12:00 PM

WTH? Touch therapy is done by a touch therapist, not by the therapist you talk to and have an established relationship with. What is "verging on sexual, but not quite"? Something is either sexual (arousing) or it's not.

No. Just no.

Lostislost · Sep 23, 2020, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BethRags

WTH? Touch therapy is done by a touch therapist, not by the therapist you talk to and have an established relationship with. What is "verging on sexual, but not quite"? Something is either sexual (arousing) or it's not.

No. Just no.

He did say it wasn't ok with UKCP or anything so she must have set up her own business after she trained. I had just never heard of it before he said.

nottrustin · Sep 23, 2020, 12:11 PM

[QUOTE=Lostislost;6939532]I think, if me and my T had regular physical contact like you do, that would be enough for me.

Valid point.

nottrustin · Sep 23, 2020, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtieTheSequal

Less than zero interest if that's even possible, the idea of naked is appalling to me.

normal regular hugs, yes. Before the pandemic/zoom sessions anyway, t and I hugged at the end of every session. It started one time well into therapy when one day she said she felt like she wanted to give me a hug and I said yes please and then after that, one or the other of us would ask first, and then at some point I don't remember when it just became a thing.

Both my Ts asked if they could give me a hug. With long term T she asked every week for a few weeks and then she stopped asking and just approached me at then of every session. Emdr T thought we had discussed hugs the session before and agreed that it would be appropriate. We never discussed hugs. We don't hug at the end of every session but most. If either of us want it we signal it. Once she signaled and I was upset so I ignored. I could never ask for a hug It would feel like they were really only doing it because I asked. I would not want to put them on the spot. In my therapy, hugs are a way of showing acceptance that they are not judging me as a gross horrible person

Before therapy, I was not a hugger at all all with the exception of my son who constantly craved hugs.

Sep 23, 2020, 01:02 PM

I am interested in people saying that they wouldn't feel comfortable paying for physical contact - and yet we pay for emotional contact in therapy. What is the difference for people? I have a similar response to touch combined with money, but I am not sure why. Not wanting touch at all in therapy makes sense to me because it's risky for some and alien for some. Also, craniosacral or somatic therapy can involve touch, are those therapies similarly uncomfortable?

Obviously, naked and borderline sexual touch in any kind of therapeutic setting sounds vile to me.

nottrustin · Sep 23, 2020, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by comrademoomoo

I am interested in people saying that they wouldn't feel comfortable paying for physical contact - and yet we pay for emotional contact in therapy. What is the difference for people? I have a similar response to touch combined with money, but I am not sure why. Not wanting touch at all in therapy makes sense to me because it's risky for some and alien for some. Also, craniosacral or somatic therapy can involve touch, are those therapies similarly uncomfortable?

Obviously, naked and borderline sexual touch in any kind of therapeutic setting sounds vile to me.

for me, when I have started with a therapist I have an emotional wall up I can only give facts and often push them away emotionally. Consequently, I also lack trust in them especially to trust their motivations. It is only through time and them proving themselves that I allow any emotions at all. It took a few months with current T and I certainly did t want hug. Even shaking hands was awkward because that meant they were in my personal space.

With hug therapy I wouldn't be able to build the rapport and trust. Maybe it all has to do with the fact that my user used hugs to his advantage.

Sep 23, 2020, 01:34 PM

I suppose I was imagining that touch focussed therapy would also involve trust building and safety. Maybe boundaries would be even more essential.

I don't know. It is curious to me that emotional connection is more readily experienced (and paid for) than somatic connection. Is it because we mix somatic with sexual, especially those of us who have experienced sexual trauma?

Rive. · Sep 23, 2020, 01:51 PM

I do not find this appealing at all.

Far from ethical. Slippery slope notwithstanding, I would most certainly not like to be touched by any random person.

Shotokan · Sep 23, 2020, 02:00 PM

It doesn't sound like therapy. It sounds almost like prostitution. Either way, it is probably very unethical.

ElectricManatee · Sep 23, 2020, 02:27 PM

I don't have any problem with people paying for touch (sexual or not), but I wouldn't have any interest in this kind of thing. I don't even like massages, and all the touch involved in having to get physical therapy made me cringe.

*Beth* · Sep 23, 2020, 03:12 PM

I am a sexual abuse survivor. I love hugs from people I trust (usually women, such as my therapist). I don't have any particular problem with being touched by, for example, a doctor or massage therapist I get a good feeling from. That said, the "touch therapy" thing sounds highly awkward and even unprofessional. I'm still saying No to this one.

Sep 23, 2020, 03:28 PM

I am not advocating for this kind of therapy. I was just interested in why we are reacting so strongly against it. There is a curious nuance to be looked at between accepting emotional intimacy and rejecting body intimacy from paid professionals. After all, if we have experienced sexual abuse, we have experienced emotional abuse. Anyway. Nevermind. As you were.

nottrustin · Sep 23, 2020, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by comrademoomoo

I am not advocating for this kind of therapy. I was just interested in why we are reacting so strongly against it. There is a curious nuance to be looked at between accepting emotional intimacy and rejecting body intimacy from paid professionals. After all, if we have experienced sexual abuse, we have experienced emotional abuse. Anyway. Nevermind. As you were.

I think it is a great conversation. You have brought ups some good points to ponder.

nottrustin · Sep 23, 2020, 04:04 PM

Curiosity got to me and in a way it seems like it could be a good experience. I had visions of people laying in bed hugging. whole that can happen if that is what a client wants. It could also mean dancing or sitting on a couch where your jeans is on their shoulder and their arm is around you. The places I saw required at least a tank top and shorts worn by both parties.

Also, there is a getting to know you phones session before the initial cuddling session. Also you pick who your appointments are with.

I still dont think I would try it myself I could see how some would enjoy it and it ne very ethical. I did have images of my long term T being my cuddler with my head in her shoulder much like so have done with my children.

corbie · Sep 23, 2020, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BethRags

WTH? Touch therapy is done by a touch therapist, not by the therapist you talk to and have an established relationship with. What is "verging on sexual, but not quite"? Something is either sexual (arousing) or it's not.

No. Just no.

To me, this setup would very possibly make sense. I'm so at odds with my sexuality that I can't really see myself ever getting comfortable with it, unless through something like this, where sexual feelings might be stirred up but there's no expectation to act upon them. However, I'd have to feel very safe with the person in the first place, so it'd have to be someone who's also good with talk therapy.

As far as touch in therapy, I had movement- and dance therapy briefly as part of an outpatient program, which was a good opportunity to experiment with touch, and useful for that reason, but not in an intimate or comforting way, and found it hard to connect to other parts of my therapy. That might have been because it was too brief, though.

Lostislost · Sep 23, 2020, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nottrustin

Curiosity got to me and in a way it seems like it could be a good experience. I had visions of people laying in bed hugging. whole that can happen if that is what a client wants. It could also mean dancing or sitting on a couch where your jeans is on their shoulder and their arm is around you. The places I saw required at least a tank top and shorts worn by both parties..

I can see how that would be a good experience. I think it's really interesting how different it is for everyone who is a survivor of abuse, and how they want to be touched or not and who they would be comfortable with.

I don't think there is anything wrong with paying for touch, but I understand it would not be for everyone. If my T did touch with me then I suppose I am paying for emotional and physical contact and that's ok. He would never initiate physical contact with me because of my past, but it is so hard to ask.

Salmon77 · Sep 23, 2020, 04:51 PM

I was curious so I looked up "touch therapy" and it sounds like it refers to a range of things, but most of them don't involve naked hugging or anything like that. Some of it does sound kinda pseudo-sciency, or like it is mostly effective in the way that massage can be effective. On the other hand, I can see why therapy involving touch in a safe and healing manner might be good for some people.

ETA I also thought this article on touch in therapy more generally looked interesting, though I haven't read the whole thing yet. Especially this part seems relevant:

Quote:

Massage therapy has been shown to reduce aversion to touch and to decrease anxiety, depression and cortisol levels in women who have been sexually or physically abused (Field, Hernandez-Reif, et al., 1997). It decreases diastolic blood pressure, anxiety and cortisol (stress hormone) levels (Hernandez-Reif, et al., 2000). One study examined the effects of massage therapy on anxiety and depression levels and on immune function (Ironson, et al., 1996). The subjects received a 45-minute massage five times weekly for a 1-month period. The findings were that: 1) anxiety, stress and cortisol levels were significantly reduced; 2) natural killer cells and natural killer cell activity increased, suggesting positive effects on the immune system. Bulimic adolescent girls received massage therapy 2 times a week for 5 weeks (Field, et al., 1998). Effects included an improved body image, decreased depression and anxiety symptoms, decreased cortisol levels and increased dopamine and serotonin levels. In a study of children with ADHD, touch sensitivity, attention to sounds and off-task classroom behavior decreased and relatedness to teachers increased after massage therapy (Field, Lasko, et al., 1997). Furthermore, a systematic review and meta-analysis of the literature on ADHD and massage therapy demonstrated more improvement of ADHD symptoms compared to Ritalin as well as marked improvement in anxious and asocial behaviors (Chen et al., 2019). In another study, children and adolescents who had undergone five 30-minute massages demonstrated better sleep patterns, lower levels of depression and anxiety and lower stress hormone levels (Field, et al., 1992). Massage therapy also decreased the anxiety, depression and stress hormone levels of children diagnosed with PTSD, who survived Hurricane Andrew (Field, et al., 1996). Additionally, their drawings reflected less depression.

corbie · Sep 23, 2020, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by comrademoomoo

I am not advocating for this kind of therapy. I was just interested in why we are reacting so strongly against it. There is a curious nuance to be looked at between accepting emotional intimacy and rejecting body intimacy from paid professionals. After all, if we have experienced sexual abuse, we have experienced emotional abuse. Anyway. Nevermind. As you were.

I'm not sure about this. For me, and apparently many others, accepting emotional intimacy is bloody difficult as well. Precisely because of past emotional abuse, probably. And it stings quite a bit to know that any such intimacy is dependent on being able to pay the other person for it. Although, technically the professional is paid for their expertise rather than the intimacy

But I think emotional involvement is generally a more regular / unavoidable part of everyday life, whereas touch and especially sexuality is very restricted, lots of taboos about them.

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