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Default Feb 03, 2021 at 04:23 PM
  #21
Frankly I would not hire any professional who thought they got to "allow" or "forbid" me from contacting them. And I consider it one of the more condescending and infantilizing ideas to ooze out of that profession. I will contact if I want and fire the therapist who can't respond. I believe they should simply bill for all time like an attorney or other professions and go on. But to act like they get to allow me is ******** - we are all adults.

I wrote the woman when I wanted and usually to explain in detail how she had failed. I actually never wanted a response from her. I could barely abide her speaking in person - in writing she was even more of a disaster

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Last edited by stopdog; Feb 03, 2021 at 07:09 PM..
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Default Feb 03, 2021 at 04:29 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by nottrustin View Post
How many people who contact their Ts have discussions with thr T about it in the beginning?

I did with my current T because I'd had a conflict with ex-T about it (the conflict with ex-MC came later). But there was still misunderstanding, because I'd thought he'd said he wouldn't charge for the first long email. And then he did charge, and I was very hurt. I told him what he'd said. He said he thought he'd explained it differently but trusted my version/interpretation and reversed the charge. Had he not reversed the charge, I'd have considered leaving, honestly. Because it seemed he was contradicting what he'd said was his policy.


With both ex-T and ex-MC, I never discussed contacting them in the beginning. I guess I had both their email addresses (on business cards) and just reached out to them at some point. They replied, so seemed OK. Then I talked to them about it at some point, and they initially said how any contact is fine, but they wouldn't necessarily reply (ex-T) or couldn't guarantee how long it would take to reply (ex-MC, though he probably only replied about 50% of the time without a nudge).
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Default Feb 03, 2021 at 04:37 PM
  #23
So, I can definitely see where she might feel threatened by that comment. Even if you didn't mean it in that way, it's possible she had a past client who *did* try to physically attack her or stalk her and threaten her in some way. Ex-T was upset that I'd found her husband's name (easy Google search, plus he even worked in the office with her as a fellow T in the past, before I saw her). It seemed like a strong reaction to me, but she said she'd been stalked by a client in the past. Which explained her reaction.


So maybe you need to try to explain that comment, and your showing up in her area, more? I think it's completely natural to want to be in the area we feel safe. In high school (many years ago!), I was very attached to this one teacher. His address was in the phone book. Sometimes I'd take a route home from my part-time job or seeing friends that drove by his street so I could see his house. It was comforting to see the lights on or his car in the driveway. I never told him that. And I could see where he might have felt threatened. But I would never have done something like, say, try to look in his windows or sit there waiting to see his wife or him. But he would have had no way of knowing that.

I guess I'm saying how a T could feel threatened, even if you meant no harm and would never dream of doing anything to harm them. And if she felt unsafe, even if you didn't intend that, I could see her wanting to set a boundary. And she hs every right to protect herself. But did she say it was partly tied to your comment or showing up in her area? I'd try to talk to her about it and explain more. How you just wanted to walk the trail to feel safe. That you would never do physical harm to her. She may still hold her boundary. But it also says something that she didn't terminate you.
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Default Feb 03, 2021 at 05:17 PM
  #24
I wonder how much heartache could be avoided if outside contact expectations were discussed in the beginning? When I initially asked T in an appointment she paused for a moment. I was one of her first clients when she went into private practice. She had worked for a community mental health program so clients went through the receptionists to make contact during business hours.

We had a good conversation on how I used email with long term T. What types of things I normally emailed about. I told her that sometimes emailed in order to get things off my chest and out of my head.

She told me she rarely checks her email so she would need me to text or call. I chose texting. She expressed concerns of having clients message her suicidal statements and her not getting the message quick enough. I told her that I have never and will never express suicidal statements in this manner. She mentioned having a couple of clients at her old job that contacted her office daily and often multiple times a day. She woul be unable to keep up with something like that. I told her if I ever did that to call me on it because there would likely be something bigger going on.. I told her I worried about being too much for her or being to needy. She also reassured me that if it was ever to much we would have a discussion before it becomes an issue. She also mentioned she is not great at checking her phone. She expressed appreciation for allowing her to process through this as it was new for her. She felt comfortable allowing me outside contact.
Since Covid started, she tells me at the end of every appointment to text her if I need her support.

Ling term T and I did not discuss it. She repeatedly told me to email her and that if it became an issue. At one point near the end, shentiomed that she felt she had let me down because she hadn't helped me to learn to deal with issues without needing so much support (not her wording). She thought we should cut back some. She repeatedly said I had done nothing wrong, not to stop contacting her but cut it back. Try some of my other coping skills first and then email her and she would likely ask what types of things I had tried so she could understand where I was. It hurt but we discussed it at depth.

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Default Feb 03, 2021 at 05:37 PM
  #25
The therapist is aware of my reasons for going by the area where her office is at that day. But she said that even though she logically understands my reason, she still feels stalked and suffocated.

The therapist said from the beginning that she wants to get us to a point of no contact. We didn't talk about the boundaries of what was acceptable to her or not acceptable. Sometimes, I do say or do XYZ and if she is in a good place, she doesn't feel spammed or overwhelmed. But if she is in a bad place such as feeling tired or stressed, the same XYZ thing would make her feel upset. But even then, she never denied me a phone call. Perhaps if the boundaries were clearer or if she had denied me during those times when she was tired or stressed, things would not have built up to this point. Perhaps we would be able to work on a gradual transition like she said we would rather than enforce an abrupt 180 degree change.
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Default Feb 03, 2021 at 06:23 PM
  #26
I read fairly quickly through this thread, so I'm not absolutely sure I understand it all. mindmechanic, as I understand it you told your therapist you would kill her if you can't have her?


If that's what happened...I'll be honest...as the health provider I would feel extremely uncomfortable, even threatened.

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Default Feb 03, 2021 at 06:29 PM
  #27
L and I discussed out of session contact during first session. We decided to adopt the same policies as T: email whenever I need to and expect a reply before noon the next day. We added that she lets me know before noon if she can't respond by then. For phone calls, I use it as I need it, and can expect a call back whenever they're able to but definitely by noon the next day. I'm supposed to email or call before I hit a crisis point.

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Default Feb 03, 2021 at 07:11 PM
  #28
My T allows emails no text and he would respond by calls when needed. That’s a rare event but he does respond.

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Default Feb 03, 2021 at 08:34 PM
  #29
You can always send them actual letters by mail.

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Default Feb 03, 2021 at 10:26 PM
  #30
Just my opinion, but I feel contact with a therapist outside of scheduled appointments fosters neediness & dependency, which isn't healthy in my particular case. My theraputic goal is to develop the ability to tolerate stressors using tools I develop in the sessions with my therapist.

I also understand that my therapist's plate is mighty full these days, what with all the anxiety & depression resulting from the fallout from the pandemic. She's working her *** off & I respect that. In addition to the long hours she's putting in, she has a personal life, too. There have been times when I'm especially anxious & depressed that I'll call the suicide hotline to talk myself down...even if I'm aware I'm not going to try anything. If things are absolutely awful, she'll make an earnest attempt to get me in when she can or, if my bipolar symptoms are flairing up, I'll call the shrink to seek a temporary pharmaceutical fix.

I don't mean to sound self-righteous, though...& I'm sorry if I come off that way. I've been dealing with my mental illnesses for decades now, & would like to think I'm farther down the path than some people. I still recall how I felt at the age of 16-20, when I didn't know what was wrong with me, or if I could ever fly straight. I'm amazed I survived those years. Good luck to anyone who is feeling the kind of hopelessness I felt back then.
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Default Feb 05, 2021 at 01:36 PM
  #31
There has never been any outside contact in my therapy, with any of the therapists I saw.

Contacting one's T for any and all reasons deprives us of our sense of autonomy. How will we ever learn to self-soothe, cope with our emotions or even develop a sense of agency if the T is the first port of call.

Likewise, the time between weekly sessions is for personal processing and integration work. Seeing T several times also prevents that from happening and instead, develops dependence on T. I am always shocked at how permissive Ts are here. Scarily so as it seems to foster dependence rather than autonomy and independence.

And yes, I am very aware that this is not a popular opinion.
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Default Feb 05, 2021 at 01:55 PM
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rive. View Post
There has never been any outside contact in my therapy, with any of the therapists I saw.

Contacting one's T for any and all reasons deprives us of our sense of autonomy. How will we ever learn to self-soothe, cope with our emotions or even develop a sense of agency if the T is the first port of call.

Likewise, the time between weekly sessions is for personal processing and integration work. Seeing T several times also prevents that from happening and instead, develops dependence on T. I am always shocked at how permissive Ts are here. Scarily so as it seems to foster dependence rather than autonomy and independence.

And yes, I am very aware that this is not a popular opinion.
In some cases I totally agree. I think it depends on what issues the client is working on and modality a therapist uses though. I also think it also depends on how it is used and what boundaries are in place.

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Default Feb 05, 2021 at 02:00 PM
  #33
And not many therapists would stay with a client who said:
Quote:
if I can't have you, I'd kill you.
Frankly, that is understandable. And definitely, boundaries needed to be tightened at that point.
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Default Feb 05, 2021 at 03:26 PM
  #34
I’ve only contacted mine once outside our sessions, but I did feel like I needed her help (and I did get it). I like her, but I’m not trying to forge a friendship or anything like that with her, so I keep that boundary even though she said I’m welcome to contact her if I need something. She is trying to promote my independence, although I can definitely see how T/client relationships are inherently unbalanced and how some therapists would make clients dependent (intentionally or not).
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Default Feb 05, 2021 at 04:38 PM
  #35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rive. View Post
There has never been any outside contact in my therapy, with any of the therapists I saw.

Contacting one's T for any and all reasons deprives us of our sense of autonomy. How will we ever learn to self-soothe, cope with our emotions or even develop a sense of agency if the T is the first port of call.

Likewise, the time between weekly sessions is for personal processing and integration work. Seeing T several times also prevents that from happening and instead, develops dependence on T. I am always shocked at how permissive Ts are here. Scarily so as it seems to foster dependence rather than autonomy and independence.

And yes, I am very aware that this is not a popular opinion.

The thing for me is, maybe at one point (a couple years ago), my therapist (or former marriage counselor) was the first port of call. But now? I try various other things first. I'll talk with friends or my husband. I might try something to distract myself, like listening to music, watching TV, cooking. Maybe I'd post on here. I might type up an email with thoughts, but not send it. So I've made progress in that I try various other things first. Contacting my T is just part of a list of coping mechanisms.

And I think that can be a good goal. Getting to a place where that's not the first thing a client tries. But sometimes, friends/family aren't available (or have their own struggles), distraction isn't helping, etc. I think at that point, reaching out to a T can actually be a healthy thing, especially for someone who has trouble asking for help. My T has actually said that he was glad I asked for what I needed at times, whether an email reply or extra or earlier session. Because that in a way shows growth.
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Default Feb 05, 2021 at 04:56 PM
  #36
The ones I hired actively encouraged me to call (I tried it a couple of times - that was useless), write (I did this when the first one needed to be told of her many failings), or schedule more appointments.
Of course, that might be because they both thought I was pathologically independent and they actively sought me to depend on them. I refused their machinations.

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Default Feb 05, 2021 at 07:52 PM
  #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rive. View Post
There has never been any outside contact in my therapy, with any of the therapists I saw.

Contacting one's T for any and all reasons deprives us of our sense of autonomy. How will we ever learn to self-soothe, cope with our emotions or even develop a sense of agency if the T is the first port of call.

Likewise, the time between weekly sessions is for personal processing and integration work. Seeing T several times also prevents that from happening and instead, develops dependence on T. I am always shocked at how permissive Ts are here. Scarily so as it seems to foster dependence rather than autonomy and independence.

And yes, I am very aware that this is not a popular opinion.
May not be a popular opinion but you are so right. I am a product of all that outside contact. I developed so much dependence on him and my attachment to him is out of control. I live session to session and all I think about is him.

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Default Feb 10, 2021 at 09:52 PM
  #38
I think that I'm disillusioned. I'm not sure I believe in therapy anymore.

Whether or not one has a messed up childhood, who isn't going to like or enjoy the therapy relationship where we get unconditional acceptance from the therapist, their undivided attention, and compassion? Who isn't going to like that? Who isn't going to "fall in love" with the therapist? Who isn't going to wish that they could be a part of they could be a family with the therapist? The more deprived or messed up one's childhood is, the more s/he may fall in love with the therapist. We grow attached. We think that the therapist is the most amazing person in our lives. But that is their job. They are paid to do all that. If we met our therapists in a different setting – maybe through a friend or an acquaintance – we wouldn't be that much into them.

When we grow attached to therapists, they start to talk about boundaries, rules, and structure. They start to pull back. Like stopdog said, they set the game up.

Is therapy even the answer? One of the most helpful therapy meetings for me is when the therapist shares a bit about her life to show me that she understands and that I'm not alone. I could never work with a therapist who is completely a blank slate.

Who hasn't been through bad things in their lives? The mistake is our continuing to search out some kind of lost love of a parent in the therapeutic relationship. It's like chasing the wind. You're never going to get it. I think that if we can just accept that were nothing special and we're all peas in the same pot and all of us have bad things that happen to us, we can just move on and live life without being dependent on therapy.

For me, a "therapist" is just a paid reliable friend. My friends aren't always available to talk when I need to.

Last edited by mindmechanic; Feb 10, 2021 at 10:40 PM..
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Default Feb 11, 2021 at 11:11 AM
  #39
I am currently going through a cycle of high out of session contact. Currently, I have daily contact with my T either with a session or an email. There's been times where the daily contact wasn't needed and I was unsure if I should send it. Where I am right now, I have to work hard to not spam her - which I haven't done so though I have emailed her on days I have session or emailed her 2x one day (morning and evening). Our session yesterday was about the wanting to spam her. I didn't ask to be allowed and she didn't say I could or could not. Like stopdog says, we are all adults and on one level, we don't need permission to email. On another level, if any contact from any person becomes harassment, the receiving person has the right to deal with it as they desire, such as ask not to be contacted, block sending persons email address, all the way to legal means. In these relationships, there's the real risk of a T deciding that the patient needs something that the T cannot provide. I don't feel like I need permission to email her, she has said I could email whenever. I don't believe her with that statement because I fear if I actually let go of the internal rules that keep me from spamming her; she'd get overwhelmed, believe she could not help me, that I need more intervention support than her OP model can manage.

I think that's the dilemma there, with some of us that struggle around this type of topic. Do we trust their word and thus be able to really express ourselves freely so that they may be able to see what is needed to help us... if they can help us... OR do we protect ourselves by protecting them from our behaviors/desires/thoughts - in the meantime, perhaps we end up doing other behaviors that might be damaging to ourselves in different ways as we hold onto the boundary we put in place to keep this relationship with our T a possibility.

I am sorry you are going through this. It is very painful. Your statement to your T was an honest expression of your emotional state. Stated the way it was stated, it's also a threat. Makes it hard for both of you. Have you gotten to the place that when you are in that dissociated state that you can still tell/sense/know the difference between wanting to do something and the doing of the something? There are lots of things I want to do when I'm at a highly stressed state. Being able to state them as a wanted action rather than a doing action; I believe has been helpful for my T to know that I am still safe - to others and to myself.

I don't have any answers other than to keep talking to your T about what happened, what it means, what the purpose of out of session contacts were for you, how they were helpful and how they were a hinderance, how you can find other avenues to support yourself, where she could fit into that... and at what point does things indicate that you should seek more help - what are the signs that you should engage in crisis intervention and what that looks like - especially if you used to use her and now she is expecting you to use other tools; what tools are available to you?
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Default Feb 11, 2021 at 03:12 PM
  #40
I've been pondering this issue of outside contact for some time.

Recently it all came to the forefront when my T wanted to refer me out because she was feeling ineffectual (and somewhat overwhelmed by my case). It was a huge rupture and led me to take a step back. The "spell" was broken. I saw her for who she is (a very good hired therapist) and it scared the heck out of me. I was living under a (self-imposed) spell that maybe she could love me like no parent ever had. I was also blindsided because she is usually the most caring, gentle, soothing, and responsive therapist I have ever known.

I suddenly realized that despite all her amazing attributes as a T...she's not my mother (seems obvious, but yeah). This led me to the conclusion that I can not safely put all my fragile little attachment eggs into someone else's basket. Perhaps if I'd had a good-enough mother she could help hold them for me (then again, if I'd had a good-enough mother I wouldn't be in this predicament in the first place).

Bottom line: I'm an adult, so I have to hold the little eggs myself now. I can get lots of help from therapists- but I still have to be the primary caregiver to my own wants and needs.

Anyway, long story short- I'm trying to eliminate most outside contact in order to lessen my overwhelming attachment and strengthen/empower myself between sessions. I now have two therapists who allow outside contact (one less enthusiastic about it than the other), but I've recently set a personal boundary for myself around it. I am not reaching out to them unless it's scheduling related or a true crisis. I currently have three sessions per week (soon to be reduced to 2x week) so if I am NOT able to contain, cope and comfort myself in between sessions then I probably do need a higher level of care.

Which has led me to take a hard look at myself and decide if I can really function and cope between sessions without contact. My most recent reaching out was out of "wants" not "needs". Not to minimize my wanting and seeking connection, but I realize now that it's not crucial for my survival. In the past it may have been crucial (and there have been periods where I probably should've been inpatient, but my Ts stuck with me and got me through it on an outpatient basis). It might also be crucial again in the future, but at the moment it's more of a comfort than a life-line.

Do I want to contain and comfort myself? That's a hard no. I want my T to help me. Can I do it? I think so. Not that it's easy...it's so incredibly difficult and the parts of me that are stuck in attachment trauma hell are often activated and desperate. But I'm really trying to focus on taking care of them between session and I am actually feeling stronger for it.

It's also helpful that this is a boundary I am setting for myself (not a T telling me I can't contact them). If this boundary were forced upon me by my T then this would be a different and more difficult situation.

Sorry for the long and rambling post. Just my own experience and may not resonate with anyone else.

Last edited by InkyBooky; Feb 11, 2021 at 03:25 PM..
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My Support Forums

My Support Forums is the online community that was originally begun as the Psych Central Forums in 2001. It now runs as an independent self-help support group community for mental health, personality, and psychological issues and is overseen by a group of dedicated, caring volunteers from around the world.

 

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