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Inner Space Traveler
Member Since May 2014
Location: on the wing of an eagle
Posts: 3,892
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#1
I don’t remember how to do “trigger WARNINGS.’
++++++++++TRIGGER WARNING +++++++== TRIGGER WARNING !+++++++++. This is in regard to exploitation by a psychiatrist that occurred many years ago. PrevT told me, “He (AbusivePDoc) forced you to do something sexual...legally/technically not “rape”...but in all ways despicable and abusive like rape.” —— 1) WHY WASN’T IT R*PE? WHY? 2) Even if PrevT wasn’t calling it r*pe, she says it was still as despicable and abusive as r*pe. I don’t understand why she didn’t talk to me more about it when I was in treatment with her? It’s obvious to me now I was still confused by it because it wasn’t until years later when I started seeing CurrentT that it occurred to me that I still didn’t know what to call it. I was asking, “Wait, what happened to me??” Because I said, ‘no.’ I told PrevT (and the police and the medical licensing board and my civil lawyer and the sexual abuse advocate) exactly what happened,
Possible trigger:
I told PrevT that afterwards I felt ‘happy I could do that for him,’ after all. Like, I wasn’t hurt..or mad..or distressed that he had forced me to do something I didn’t want to do. How screwed up was I!? And she never challenged me on it, that I can remember. She never challenged me with, ‘Pre, you said you couldn’t breathe....you weren’t scared?...you were *happy* about that?’ And, no, I wasn’t! I think I must have been in shock and disbelief! She didn’t make me think about it. Why didn’t she challenge me about it? Maybe there was a reason she didn’t? I don’t know. Why? And why wasn’t it technically or legally r*pe? ? Last edited by FooZe; Apr 09, 2021 at 01:40 PM.. Reason: added trigger icon and tags |
*Beth*, ArtieTheSequal, Cantholdmyrage, Lemoncake, LonesomeTonight, mote.of.soul, SlumberKitty, Taylor27, WarmFuzzySocks
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Magnate
Member Since Oct 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 2,801
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#2
I'm sorry you had this experience. Perhaps the PrevT is simply just wrong. Sometimes people are just wrong and we have to know the reality and truth for ourselves.
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SlumberKitty
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*Beth*, precaryous
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underdog is here
Member Since Sep 2011
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#3
1. Rape has technical definitions depending on your individual jurisdiction. I would never trust a therapist to know that definition.
2. Therapists have a bias in favor of themselves even where they factually know different. I think those people have a hard time acknowledging how horrible some, if not all, of them can be and giving things a softer name makes them feel better - not the client. 3. Therapists are no better than anyone else about women and their experiences at the hands of men who have taken a position of authority over those women. They will under play it when it comes to their own or just when it comes to women. Those are my ideas. __________________ Please NO @ Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live. Oscar Wilde Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History - Laurel Thatcher Ulrich Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional. |
atisketatasket, CrimsonBlues, Lemoncake, precaryous, SlumberKitty, susannahsays, WarmFuzzySocks
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Inner Space Traveler
Member Since May 2014
Location: on the wing of an eagle
Posts: 3,892
10 8,164 hugs
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#4
Quote:
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underdog is here
Member Since Sep 2011
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#5
__________________ Please NO @ Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live. Oscar Wilde Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History - Laurel Thatcher Ulrich Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional. |
precaryous
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Inner Space Traveler
Member Since May 2014
Location: on the wing of an eagle
Posts: 3,892
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#6
My psychiatrist (years ago) was arrested a year to the month after exploiting me psychologically, sexually, financially and emotionally.
Found out the woman patient he exploited in this article was just nineteen years old. She appeared at his motel because she was involved in domestic violence with her husband. The psychiatrist had promised if she got away from her husband, he would help her get into a woman’s safe house. When she showed up, the psychiatrist told her he was unable to get her into the shelter that day. He said he tried to pay for a single motel room for her but the motel was full....which was a lie. I read he told her she could spend the night in his room, and, btw, he didn’t sleep in pajamas, he hoped she didn’t mind... What a scumbag. Here, she believed he was going to help her get away from the violence at home. When she plucked up the courage to leave...she showed up at his motel and allegedly received more sexual abuse and was held there against her will. Reading this newspaper article about his arrest was a pivotal point for me...realizing I wasn’t the *only ‘victim’* ...and he wasn’t a good man who had just made a *mistake* with me...which is what I had been telling myself up to this point. They set his bail at a measly $10,000 and he was never criminally prosecuted for any of his victims. This psychiatrist disgusts me in SO many ways ..on SO many levels. Last edited by precaryous; Apr 09, 2021 at 06:20 PM.. |
Junior Member
Member Since Apr 2021
Location: Colombia
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#7
That's quite the terrible story.
And I honestly couldn't tell you why the second therapist claim it wasn't what it was, there may be variations in the exact legal definition between places but your description doesn't seem to leave any possible ambiguity in my eyes. That just sounds like a strange and pointless way to re-victimize someone. Honestly, this is just beyond awful, you were abused by someone who was supposed to help you, then the next one seemingly gaslighted you for no apparent reason. I think it's admirable you had the desire to keep trying with mental health professionals after all that, I hope the current one is at least not an absolute piece of **** to break the trend. |
precaryous, Quietmind 2
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Inner Space Traveler
Member Since May 2014
Location: on the wing of an eagle
Posts: 3,892
10 8,164 hugs
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#8
Someone I know is looking up the pertinent info about the legal definition of r**e in that state for me.
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Member
Member Since Oct 2018
Location: the astral plane
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#9
SD is right that that word connotates something very specific legally. I would not be confident in saying that that’s what happened to you, though I believe we can all agree that it was sexual abuse.
Words can be important and can be used to convey certain experiences, but I think it’s more important to validate the experience that something happened. What happened to you was not okay, despite the way that laws or people may choose to label it. The professionals in your life should be validating that experience and helping you to reclaim your agency. I think that too often focus on details when we should be focused on the experience. You’re strong to be open to discussing this with your treatment team. I have issues in my life that could be considered adjacent to yours, but I don’t feel any more ready to tackle them more than when I first started therapy. You’re very brave and resilient. I hope you’re able to continue the healing process. |
precaryous, Quietmind 2
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Inner Space Traveler
Member Since May 2014
Location: on the wing of an eagle
Posts: 3,892
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#10
Quote:
I want to clarify that neither PrevT or T have used therapy to focus on the details. Instead, they are responding to my questions and confusion about the details. My mind is all mixed up emotionally and intellectually about what I think I should call what happened to me. “Exploitation” and “sexual abuse” fit.. And I don’t want to call it r**e if that’s not what it was. I also don’t want to call it r**e to lessen anyone else’s experience or to ‘elevate/exaggerate’ mine. I’ve always heard if you say ‘no’ and you’re prevented from resisting by force or other means, that is r**e. But I’ve been wrong many times before ...it doesn’t bother me to be mistaken. I just want to know if I am. It confuses me that RAINN states one version of the legal definition of r**e in that state ...and “the California Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training (POST) Sex Crimes Learning Domain, “Copyright 2002 provide a different legal definition in that state. It’s confusing to me that one T says it wasn’t R...the other says it was. It’s confusing to me that, although the PDoc was arrested for holding his 19yo patient against her will for two days and allegedly administering drugs & committing s. battery on her...(whatever that included, I don’t know)...and the detective in charge of the case was quoted in the paper saying the police found corroborating evidence in his car and motel...but the PDoc was never prosecuted for that or for any of the other allegations made by the seven women who came forward. The state medical board, on the other hand, revoked his license... It’s all confusing. I think one of the big issues I have is I still feel guilty, stupid and at fault for being there,...and giving consent to a good deal of what happened. I blame myself, my family blames me and thinks I’m stupid. I have no problem realizing I am definitely naive. I believe ... I’m telling myself , on some level, that if it was called r**e, then, maybe, my family wouldn’t think it’s all my fault... More than that, maybe *I* wouldn’t believe it was all my fault. The perpetrator died recently and its bringing all this back up. Last edited by precaryous; Apr 11, 2021 at 12:18 AM.. |
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daisydid, Elio, Mystical_Being, NP_Complete, SlumberKitty
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nottrustin, Quietmind 2
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Elder Harridan x-hankster
Member Since Jun 2011
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#11
Quote:
1. Confusing your situation and the 19 yr old's. It's hard for me to think of one without the other, since its the same guy. Its like on law and order, where they say do or dont let in evidence from another case because it would prejudice the jury. 2. Is this a recurring discussion with your family? If so, can you tell them you only want SUPPORT from now on about it? The last few years i was even talking to my mother, i started telling her, "Youre hurting my self-esteem!" This was when Oprah started talking about kids' self-esteem, so my mother knew the word (english not her first language). She would reply, shaking her fist at me, "yeah i will give you some-ah steam!" So even though we were making a "joke" about it, i still let her know i didnt like it and that i wanted her to stop. 3. My family thinks im the stupid one in the family too, but im the only one who got into Mensa, and in high school PBK. So maybe we are savants and maybe they should shut up. If they are so smart, why didnt they get us the help we needed? |
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Favorite Jeans, precaryous, Tart Cherry Jam
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Favorite Jeans, precaryous, Tart Cherry Jam
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Inner Space Traveler
Member Since May 2014
Location: on the wing of an eagle
Posts: 3,892
10 8,164 hugs
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#12
Quote:
I’m so sorry you were hurt. I don’t know what would help. I know I’m in a better place than I was twenty years ago. It felt like I was in a very slooow car crash...but I didn’t realize I was being hurt at the time...partly, because I didn’t know all of it..or that his intentions were bad. Maybe it was like being molested as a kid...but not knowing you were being hurt at the time...it didn’t feel bad so you don’t tell anyone...then you find out how wrong it all was when you are older? Maybe not. All I know is that gradual realization that I was harmed...was/is confusing and surreal. No, my family and I dont talk about it much. We talked about it some while the law suits were in progress....I tried to explain the best I could. At the time my mother admonished me, “Well! I hope you’ve learned your lesson!” I tried to explain it to my brother and he was so upset about how naive I was...and about the money...he left the table in a hurry. I felt like such an idiot. I had a session with with PrevT, me and my mom one time..I know she tried to explain it. It came up in conversation with my daughter about two years ago and she was so mad...she was a teen at the time this happened and she said she was angry because she felt I chose him over her. Now that she’s an adult, I was able to describe, better, what happened. I think she’s in a better place with it. But she doesn’t want to talk about it. That’s another harm this sort of issue creates..he didn’t just hurt me. He hurt my mother, my daughter, my family. They are secondary victims. I think of his family- his wife and children- as secondary victims, too. Yes, in my family I am treated like I’m the stupid one. But maybe we *are* savants and they should just shut up. Last edited by precaryous; Apr 14, 2021 at 07:49 PM.. |
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unaluna
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unaluna
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Inner Space Traveler
Member Since May 2014
Location: on the wing of an eagle
Posts: 3,892
10 8,164 hugs
given |
#13
Quote:
Sometimes I’m tempted to go to that hometown FB page and just ask, “Hey, who remembers ______ ______, M.D.......and just see if anyone has anything to say about him. I’m also tempted to redact the ‘Findings of Fact’ from the medical board decision that relates the details of three of our cases and also protects our identities. But I probably won’t do that. |
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unaluna
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Grand Poohbah
Member Since Jun 2013
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#14
The legal definition of rape varies over time and place. We have come to understand rape as an absence of meaningful consent rather than previous understandings which centered more around how hard someone fought and was seen largely as a property crime against the man who owned the woman in question.
A client cannot meaningfully consent to sex with their T just as a child cannot meaningfully consent to sex with an adult. Even though in either case the person in question might “want” to have sex, the power differential is too great for that consent to mean anything. That’s why therapists have a great degree of responsibility and that’s why this messed you up more than an ordinary relationship would have. Precarious, I think you can call it rape. I think it’s rape. We’re not talking about a court of law now, we’re talking about you trying to understand and explain what happened. And one of the horrible things about rape is that we’re often not believed and undermined and blamed overtly or subtly when we come forward. It sounds like that’s what happened with your previous T. But now you can talk about this experience in whatever way is helpful and feels most true, and I hope your current T and the important people in your life can listen and validate that. |
precaryous, SlumberKitty
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comrademoomoo, Elio, precaryous, Quietmind 2
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underdog is here
Member Since Sep 2011
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#15
Quote:
That doesn't mean I don't think a therapist can exploit someone - I do. I believe they can rape and sexually assault clients as well and they should be held accountable. __________________ Please NO @ Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live. Oscar Wilde Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History - Laurel Thatcher Ulrich Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional. |
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susannahsays
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Grand Poohbah
Member Since Feb 2019
Location: Toodlepip
Posts: 1,794
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#16
Quote:
This is not about whether individual clients can sometimes consent. This is an issue of classification. You might feel able to consent to sex with a therapist, but we need to protect the most vulnerable women and understand women as a class not as a series of individuals. "I don't mind burglars stealing my stuff" doesn't mean we sometimes make burglary legal. |
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precaryous, SlumberKitty, unaluna
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unaluna
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Inner Space Traveler
Member Since May 2014
Location: on the wing of an eagle
Posts: 3,892
10 8,164 hugs
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#17
I’ve been working on this with T...and also emailing PrevT a little, as I’ve said.
Recently, emailed PrevT thoughts/questions similar to what I’ve posted here on this thread...maybe I’ve wondered if I have questioned whether to call it rape to lessen my responsibility and guilt? I’m ready to look at that: Me- “...But, now, I wonder if I need to name it...maybe call it ‘rape’... because, if it was rape, maybe my family would change their minds and not think I’m so stupid ...for putting myself in those positions, handing over thousands of dollars to him, agreeing to most of everything that we did..and believing it was all my fault. Maybe, if it was ‘rape’, *I* would stop believing it was all my fault. As painful as it is, I need to figure out what parts of this were all my fault. If it is my fault...even part of it...don’t I need to know?” PrevT : “I think that experientially speaking it was rape...He forced sexual intimacy with you...NONE of it is your "fault"...You went to him for help...you were you...that is all you should have been...HE was the one who had the complete responsibility NOT to exploit anything about you and to help you.” |
Favorite Jeans, Mystical_Being, SlumberKitty
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atisketatasket, Mystical_Being
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Grand Magnate
Member Since Jun 2018
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 3,355
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#18
Quote:
ETA - What I'm getting at is that you can even define a rape as rape yet your mind will come up with ways that you "made" someone rape you, which is not a thing. __________________ Life is hard. Then you die. Then they throw dirt in your face. -David Gerrold |
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Lemoncake, precaryous, SlumberKitty, unaluna
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precaryous, unaluna
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Inner Space Traveler
Member Since May 2014
Location: on the wing of an eagle
Posts: 3,892
10 8,164 hugs
given |
#19
Quote:
Hadn’t thought of the point you made-that way. You’re right, of course. I’m giving all of this a lot of thought Side note...I’m surprised the legal definition of rape is so narrow. That one aspect of the intimacy I talked about... I said ‘no.’ I remember that clearly. He made me do it anyway....using force and fear. Shocking that’s not legally rape just bc the body parts have different names. |
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susannahsays
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underdog is here
Member Since Sep 2011
Location: blank
Posts: 34,995
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#20
Quote:
__________________ Please NO @ Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live. Oscar Wilde Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History - Laurel Thatcher Ulrich Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional. |
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precaryous
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