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comrademoomoo
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Default Jun 06, 2021 at 09:44 AM
  #21
... Although of course it's never a true going back to exactly how it was because some growth or movement or change happens along the way.
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Default Jun 06, 2021 at 10:08 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by comrademoomoo View Post
... Although of course it's never a true going back to exactly how it was because some growth or movement or change happens along the way.
I agree. It could make you lose a bit of trust in her. It could change your image of her and your relationship. It could ultimately make the relationship stronger. And it could be all three at once.

I used to hate when my T would say how working through ruptures makes relationships stronger. Because if he said it in the middle of the rupture, it felt sort of like a copout. There I was in pain, doubting whether I can trust him, and he's acting like this is ultimately a good thing? But now, while I'm not in rupture/repair mode, I can look back and see that I have gained more trust in the strength of our relationship. Like, "OK, we worked through that, we can work through this." And, "He's not just going to drop/terminate/tighten the boundaries because of a conflict or because I express hurt or anger toward him."

And it can also help me to look at outside relationships that way, too--I had a conflict with my H or my friend, but we've had other conflicts and gotten through it. Now, there are people in my past to whom that does *not* apply, but those relationships clearly were not strong enough and/or we weren't both dedicated to maintaining them. In your case, Scarlet, I think you have a strong relationship with L, and you're both dedicated to maintaining it.
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Default Jun 06, 2021 at 11:06 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight View Post
I agree. It could make you lose a bit of trust in her. It could change your image of her and your relationship. It could ultimately make the relationship stronger. And it could be all three at once.

I used to hate when my T would say how working through ruptures makes relationships stronger. Because if he said it in the middle of the rupture, it felt sort of like a copout. There I was in pain, doubting whether I can trust him, and he's acting like this is ultimately a good thing? But now, while I'm not in rupture/repair mode, I can look back and see that I have gained more trust in the strength of our relationship. Like, "OK, we worked through that, we can work through this." And, "He's not just going to drop/terminate/tighten the boundaries because of a conflict or because I express hurt or anger toward him."

And it can also help me to look at outside relationships that way, too--I had a conflict with my H or my friend, but we've had other conflicts and gotten through it. Now, there are people in my past to whom that does *not* apply, but those relationships clearly were not strong enough and/or we weren't both dedicated to maintaining them. In your case, Scarlet, I think you have a strong relationship with L, and you're both dedicated to maintaining it.
Yes and I think the change or movement occurs in terms of self, not just in relation to the other. With every rupture we have had, I have learnt more about my vulnerability and defenses and, on this occasion, my desperate need for control.

I really envy the clarity with which you can say that Scarlet has a strong therapeutic relationship. Equally, I admire the confidence with which Scarlet knows that there is no malice in her therapist's behaviour and believes in the goodness of her therapist. My sense of this goodness in my own therapeutic relationship is so fragile and I don't know how much of that is because of my emotional mess and how much of it could be because my therapist is a nightmare.

Ok, enough derailing comrade! I will start a separate thread now.
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Default Jun 06, 2021 at 04:39 PM
  #24
I don't feel you're derailing, Comrade! You're adding your experience.

Someone from my past said that you either grow together or you grow apart.

I think what keeps me fighting is that I still love L, and our history. Each session, we go over memories between us to try to remind my nervous system of our relationship. It does help. And my love for her doesn't just disappear because I feel she's wronged me.

Part of my fear is that maybe she is like ex-T. I KNOW she is not ex-T, and it's still feels similar. Like in an instant things changed. Rituals that I thought were stable have seemed to be flipped.

But do I want to let go of this relationship? What if this is just an error that can be resolved? I have to keep trying. The worst that could happen is that it is the similar to ex-T, right? And I still have T as backup (even though that's not what I want).

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Default Jun 08, 2021 at 06:20 PM
  #25
Update:
Things with L are getting better. I really feel like she's understanding. I feel heard. She IS taking responsibility for her part of "the dance". We haven't gotten into too many details, but she's not explaining things away. And she's being extra caring and gentle like sending me an extra email that was very supportive. It definitely was not expected, but greatly needed and appreciated.

I now believe that this is fixable. I do believe we can heal from this and grow from it. We used the example of how a broken bone grows stronger in the place it fractured once it's healed. I believe/hope the same for our relationship.

I'm still having internal issues though. Maybe it will subside when we work out the details? I just don't trust her yet. I want to. I need it so badly. I need the support right now. I'm still hurting and feeling alone in it. If a rupture happened with someone else, I would go to L for help and support. I don't feel 100% comfortable doing that when she's the one who hurt me.

But it is getting better. I just wish we could rewind and fix that day or fast forward to the part where all is forgiven and repaired. This in-between stuff sucks. And I'm not looking forward to sorting out the details. It needs to happen, but I'm afraid it will be like reliving it. I don't want to hear where she went wrong, and I don't want to hear where I went wrong. It makes me feel guilty, ashamed, and uncomfortable.

I'm so desperate for comfort and nurturing right now. This is one time I wish she could hold me. Stupid transference and attachment.

I'm just happy that we're able to move forward. That the relationship didn't break. That I still have L and that she still wants me.

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Default Jun 08, 2021 at 06:38 PM
  #26
I'm so glad things are getting better! That's such great news.

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Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel View Post
Update:
I just wish we could rewind and fix that day or fast forward to the part where all is forgiven and repaired. This in-between stuff sucks.
I completely agree with you about the in-between stuff sucking AND I think that can be a really important place to be for a bit. For me, at least, tolerating the in-between stuff has helped with reducing my tendency for black-and-white thinking in relationships. If you can take a minute while you're there and try to hold onto the conflicting feelings and hold onto both your perspective and hers, it can really help you grow.
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Default Jun 09, 2021 at 11:47 AM
  #27
I'm glad things are improving. One of the hardest things to learn (and trust) is that relationships of any sort are not perfect - "perfect" is just not obtainable. Relationships are, by nature, sometimes messy because we are, by nature, messy. But a solid relationship withstands the mess. The mess doesn't mean anyone even intentionally set out to do harm or even actually caused harm; sometimes things just happen that end up that way and we feel harmed by the sequence of events moreso than the actual person. It's important to distinguish a bad series of events from a bad person.

Being able to tolerate the messiness of relationships, to not expect them to always go as planned, to not fall into that black and white thinking of this is ALL good or this is ALL bad, is really important to the sustainability of a trusting, healthy relationship of any kind.

Glad you are feeling better and just allowing this time to work itself out rather than reacting too quickly. The impulse sometimes is "I have to do something RIGHT NOW to feel differently," when generally the better thing to do is slow down, sit with it a bit, give it a bit of time, and allow that healthy relationship the trust it deserves to heal.
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Default Jun 09, 2021 at 07:44 PM
  #28
I’m glad to hear that things are getting better, Scarlet.

I noticed a contradiction of sorts in your upset post. You say that you need to work through the details, but you express that will likely cause more pain. Is it necessary to rehash the details? What do you gain from it? I don’t have an opinion on this, just some food for thought.
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Default Jun 09, 2021 at 08:07 PM
  #29
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I’m glad to hear that things are getting better, Scarlet.

I noticed a contradiction of sorts in your upset post. You say that you need to work through the details, but you express that will likely cause more pain. Is it necessary to rehash the details? What do you gain from it? I don’t have an opinion on this, just some food for thought.
L says that we work through whatever comes to the surface. If today it's specific details, then that's what we work on. If tomorrow is feelings, then that's what we work on. And maybe, something will come up some time from now, then that's what we will work on. She tells me to trust my gut, my nervous system, and the process. That it has done right by me this far. She says the body, as well as the mind, wants to heal, and that healing will take place over time.

The reason I want to go through the details are because that's what's on my mind. I want to sort through "the dance". It's scary and painful, but I'm not into avoiding things just because they are hard. I'm also not into causing pain for the sake of working something out. But the pain already happened, and I feel in a better spot with L tvis week than I did last week.

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Default Jun 11, 2021 at 04:35 PM
  #30
Another update:
In today's session we talked more about the specifics. It was a good, albeit, uncomfortable session. I don't do well with hearing apologies from others. I'm much better at making the apology myself. Same with compliments and gift giving. So it was hard to hear L apologize. I took it in, and I accepted the apology. We actually discovered a lot about what happened: for her, for me, for us. There was a lot of clarity and it made sense for both of us. There's still more work with specifics that need to be done, but so far so good. I actually was happy to be with her today and was happy when I left. I feel good about us again. I'm feeling that comfort and security again.

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Default Jun 11, 2021 at 04:38 PM
  #31
Great Job Scarlet!

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Default Jun 11, 2021 at 05:04 PM
  #32
Glad to hear that, Scarlet! And it's also probably good for you to work with accepting apologies and compliments from others. I struggle with some similar things.
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Default Jun 11, 2021 at 09:08 PM
  #33
Good to hear, Scarlet!
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Default Jun 18, 2021 at 09:47 PM
  #34
L and I talked more today about the confusions we both had during the rupture. Overall, it went well. There was a little hiccup, but it was resolved quickly. We both apologized for our part of the confusion, we set up clarified expectations, and we did a little brainstorming about how to get me to ask for a call when I need it (I struggle so much with that!). We still have two more points to work on: the two disclosures that I didn't ask for. That will probably have to wait till next Friday because she's out of town next session. L says she's proud of me and feels like I'm including her as part of my team. It's so uncomfortable because it's all so unfamiliar too me (re: accepting apologies). But I'm trying and learning that it's okay.

I'm so glad L and I are back on the right track. Even she was worried because she knows how much I'm depending on this relationship right now. But we both feel the connection again, and I am definitely feeling the strength and safety of our relationship again.

I want to thank you all for helping me through this. I'm taking it one step at a time and learning to trust the process. I'm definitely not trying to push for anything to be resolved by a certain time, just letting what comes up come up.

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Default Jun 19, 2021 at 02:21 AM
  #35
L sounds like she’s a great T, I wish I could find a T like that.
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