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snakeswithhats
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Trig Jun 17, 2021 at 05:11 AM
  #1
- mentions of sh, not detailed !!

Today I had an appointment with a counselor, I’ve never had any therapy before. She was recommended to my sibling and I. I thought it was one on one counseling for the both of us but it turns out it was family counseling and she pretty much forced us to reveal personal things in front of our mom. She destroyed any trust I might have for her in the first day, she made all of my feelings worse. She didn’t care to check what our boundaries were and instantly asked about our history with cutting. We’ve been lying to our mom that we stopped cutting so we told her the same story, that we haven’t cut since we moved in (we moved in a few months back due to the loss of a family member) because we know our mom would notice unlike our past household. My sibling stopped now but has very strong urges and I haven’t stopped. The counselor says she thinks it’s strange that we could stop so suddenly and starts prying for more information. She asked us on a scale of 1 to 10 how likely we would cut tonight or be tempted to cut and to my surprise my sibling answered honestly and said 7. I didn’t know how to answer because I can’t exactly put that on a scale and also because I didn’t know if she’d believe the lie anymore and I didn’t know if it’d be better to be honest at this point but I was very uncomfortable. I said “I really don’t know how to answer” and she replied with “yeah I’m not letting you get away with that, I need an answer.” I stopped talking because I was starting to panic. She said instead of answering with a number I could just say if I’ve been tempted to cut or thought about how I could get away with it. I answered honestly and she told my mom to regularly make us remove our clothes except for underwear so she could inspect us for cuts. I was horrified, not so much about the scars but I’m very uncomfortable revealing my body and things would never be the same with my mom if she made me do that. Now I start freaking out and try to tune out the conversation. She notices and says she really wants to know what I’m thinking but I stay silent. She keeps prying and trying to get me to talk and I’m fully panicking at this point. She made me want to cut even more, I don’t want to see her again or ever say anything more to her.

Last edited by bluekoi; Jun 18, 2021 at 10:37 AM.. Reason: Add trigger icon.
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Default Jun 18, 2021 at 04:31 AM
  #2
I am sorry that happened to you.

I had an experience with a therapist where she

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some people are just in the wrong job. it's as simple as that.
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Default Jun 18, 2021 at 06:35 AM
  #3
What are her credentials? Always best to see a licensed psychotherapist.
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Default Jun 18, 2021 at 09:35 AM
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by snakeswithhats View Post
- mentions of sh, not detailed !!

Today I had an appointment with a counselor, I’ve never had any therapy before. She was recommended to my sibling and I. I thought it was one on one counseling for the both of us but it turns out it was family counseling and she pretty much forced us to reveal personal things in front of our mom. She destroyed any trust I might have for her in the first day, she made all of my feelings worse. She didn’t care to check what our boundaries were and instantly asked about our history with cutting. We’ve been lying to our mom that we stopped cutting so we told her the same story, that we haven’t cut since we moved in (we moved in a few months back due to the loss of a family member) because we know our mom would notice unlike our past household. My sibling stopped now but has very strong urges and I haven’t stopped. The counselor says she thinks it’s strange that we could stop so suddenly and starts prying for more information. She asked us on a scale of 1 to 10 how likely we would cut tonight or be tempted to cut and to my surprise my sibling answered honestly and said 7. I didn’t know how to answer because I can’t exactly put that on a scale and also because I didn’t know if she’d believe the lie anymore and I didn’t know if it’d be better to be honest at this point but I was very uncomfortable. I said “I really don’t know how to answer” and she replied with “yeah I’m not letting you get away with that, I need an answer.” I stopped talking because I was starting to panic. She said instead of answering with a number I could just say if I’ve been tempted to cut or thought about how I could get away with it. I answered honestly and she told my mom to regularly make us remove our clothes except for underwear so she could inspect us for cuts. I was horrified, not so much about the scars but I’m very uncomfortable revealing my body and things would never be the same with my mom if she made me do that. Now I start freaking out and try to tune out the conversation. She notices and says she really wants to know what I’m thinking but I stay silent. She keeps prying and trying to get me to talk and I’m fully panicking at this point. She made me want to cut even more, I don’t want to see her again or ever say anything more to her.
yes thats what "family therapy" is... working on the problems of each family member as a family unit. my family has a "family therapy" and each of us also have "individual therapy" where the same therapist who is doing family therapy is the same one we all meet with individually.

it may feel strange at first having to disclose your self injury thoughts and actions but back in the day when this was one of my issues I discovered that my self injuring was not just "my issue" to deal with. it was my whole family that was also dealing with it. they were trying to figure out why I self injured, what they could do to help me, what they did wrong that made me do such a thing as want to hurt myself. and much more.

if I wasnt honest then they would also continue to struggle with this too.

this is the first session right so maybe give it some time. the therapist was probably trying to get a "baseline" a starting point of where you and your brother and the rest of the family was. this way you and the therapist would be able to see whether progress is really being made, whether more services are needed and so on.

I know that its not comfortable for you to begin dealing with your cutting as a family. maybe at the next session ask about having a few individual sessions to get you comfortable with taking about your problem in a 1 to 1 basis, then add the family therapy unit one at a time. example after a time you and just your mom have some sessions together then add another family member so that its three and so on.

Family therapy does get easier as you go along.
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Default Jun 18, 2021 at 10:23 AM
  #5
So Sorry you've had this experience! Please do not give up! i agree with the other wise and wonderful posters that it would be better to check out her credentials perhaps. i think she should have checked your boundaries before doing any of this. i also don't think it was good to not let you know that this would have been Family Counseling. i think you should talk about this with your mother and let her know that you perhaps prefer doing therapy on a one on one session. i Hope this won't discourage you from trying other therapists. It can be hard but there are some Good ones out there. Please do keep us updated if you want to. Stay Safe. Sending many safe, warm hugs to BOTH you, @snakeswithhats, your Family, your Friends and ALL of your Loved Ones! Keep fighting and keep rocking NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS, OK?!
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Default Jun 18, 2021 at 11:37 AM
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by snakeswithhats View Post
- mentions of sh, not detailed !!

Today I had an appointment with a counselor, I’ve never had any therapy before. She was recommended to my sibling and I. I thought it was one on one counseling for the both of us but it turns out it was family counseling and she pretty much forced us to reveal personal things in front of our mom. She destroyed any trust I might have for her in the first day, she made all of my feelings worse. She didn’t care to check what our boundaries were and instantly asked about our history with cutting. We’ve been lying to our mom that we stopped cutting so we told her the same story, that we haven’t cut since we moved in (we moved in a few months back due to the loss of a family member) because we know our mom would notice unlike our past household. My sibling stopped now but has very strong urges and I haven’t stopped. The counselor says she thinks it’s strange that we could stop so suddenly and starts prying for more information. She asked us on a scale of 1 to 10 how likely we would cut tonight or be tempted to cut and to my surprise my sibling answered honestly and said 7. I didn’t know how to answer because I can’t exactly put that on a scale and also because I didn’t know if she’d believe the lie anymore and I didn’t know if it’d be better to be honest at this point but I was very uncomfortable. I said “I really don’t know how to answer” and she replied with “yeah I’m not letting you get away with that, I need an answer.” I stopped talking because I was starting to panic. She said instead of answering with a number I could just say if I’ve been tempted to cut or thought about how I could get away with it. I answered honestly and she told my mom to regularly make us remove our clothes except for underwear so she could inspect us for cuts. I was horrified, not so much about the scars but I’m very uncomfortable revealing my body and things would never be the same with my mom if she made me do that. Now I start freaking out and try to tune out the conversation. She notices and says she really wants to know what I’m thinking but I stay silent. She keeps prying and trying to get me to talk and I’m fully panicking at this point.
Wow. Like, WTF??? Yeah treating you like criminals and subjecting you to humiliating invasion of your privacy on a regular basis is surely going to improve your relationship with your mother and solve all your problems /sarcasm And that bolded part is only the tip of the iceberg. How is this person even a counselor?

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She made me want to cut even more, I don’t want to see her again or ever say anything more to her.
No kidding. I wouldn't either. Therapy would be a good idea, though, with a proper therapist. Also, not sure if this is how family conseling is supposed to go, I suspect not, but individual therapy might be better until it becomes clear what exactly needs to be addressed in family therapy? Or even group therapy.
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Default Jun 18, 2021 at 11:58 AM
  #7
I'm so sorry this happened to you.

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Default Jun 18, 2021 at 12:15 PM
  #8
I found therapy to be one of the worst experiences of my adult life. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone unless I disliked them a whole lot.

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Default Jun 18, 2021 at 12:15 PM
  #9
To me there's two separate issue here, I'll address them separately.

First, the fact that you were supposed to disclose things like SI with your sister there or pushing you to answer things that you didn't want to. I'm not sure whether this is normal in family therapy, in one on one therapy it would be normal for the T to ask about it, but if you said you didn't want to answer (that goes for any question, not just SI), they should respect that. I'm also not sure how much is talked about private things in front of family members in such a setting, other users probably know better. But even in those settings, boundaries should always be respected, you do not have to answer any question you do not want to answer.

The second aspect to me is that she didn't really act properly about the whole issue. Making parents screen people for SI is as far as I know sometimes suggested, but I'd personally be very vary of that practice, it might work with people who only do it due to group pressure or something, but otherwise... I know that for me that would have been a disaster back when I lived with my parents.

Regardless of how she handled that whole topic, you say you don't want to go to see her again. That's fine, and actually quite common. Lots of people go to a therapist, who might have seemed like a good choice, but then they realize that either the therapist acts like this and it bothers them, or that there's literally anything under the sun that bothers them about it (could be the therapist is a smoker and that bothers you, could be they are acting inappropriately, could be you just don't click with them). It's recommended that in that situation, you try a different one. It seems to me that you'd like one on one therapy better, is that correct? If that's the case, can you ask somebody for a recommendation on a therapist for that? Or maybe also use something like PsychCentral, they have lots of therapists on there where you can look at their profile and all. But in that situation, most of the time the therapist will not take both you and your sister, that is not viewed as ethical usually. If you'd like family therapy together with your sister (which means both of you in one room, usually in that situation there is no or little one on one time), then I'd as well suggest you try to look for a different therapist, since no matter whether she has the right credentials and might be a good therapist for some people, for you she doesn't seem to be and that's all that counts.
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Default Jun 18, 2021 at 01:10 PM
  #10
I also see that it was upsetting to you that the family therapist asked or suggested that your parents have you strip down so that they can see whether you are still self injuring, actually see the cuts.

as a minor in your parents care the therapist probably had no choice but to make that suggestion.

Therapists have a set of rules they have to go by in situations where they may have minors who are hurting their self or are getting hurt by others.

following that set of rules is never fun so most therapists choose educating first like providing parents with what to do if they have a minor child who is hurting their self or getting hurt by someone else, work with the family.

keep working with this therapist and its ok to ask them when you dont understand things they are suggesting.
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Default Jun 18, 2021 at 08:28 PM
  #11
I wouldn’t go back. I had a similar family therapy experience as a teenager and I still shudder to remember it. Therapy can be incredibly harmful and bad therapists abound. No matter your age, you have a right to be treated respectfully and competently.

You also have a right not to answer questions. You’re not being deposed FFS.
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Default Jun 18, 2021 at 09:01 PM
  #12
This sounds like a total crappy therapist and there is no defense of her actions.

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Default Jun 19, 2021 at 10:24 AM
  #13
This sounds like a very crappy therapist. I would honesty never go back to her and to me she really should of kept your stuff confidential regardless if it was family therapy. Hugs
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Default Jun 19, 2021 at 11:33 AM
  #14
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Originally Posted by amandalouise View Post
as a minor in your parents care the therapist probably had no choice but to make that suggestion.

Therapists have a set of rules they have to go by in situations where they may have minors who are hurting their self or are getting hurt by others.
Do you have a citation for this? I'm genuinely curious, because it seems like making your child strip down for you on a regular basis would just breed resentment and distrust and violate the child's privacy and bodily autonomy. I think there'd probably be quite a few other things to suggest doing before suggesting this.
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Default Jun 19, 2021 at 12:45 PM
  #15
Sorry you had such a bad experience with this person, it is definitely something to do with being a minor but I don't agree they should treat you differently.

I had a similar experience when I was 13, I was seeing a counsellor for 12 weeks and then that counsellor got replaced with another because I wasn't doing 'well enough'..the new one invited my mother in to the room and started talking about the abuse and self harm like it was nothing. My mother didn't want to hear about that either. I never went back to her, I became much worse and didn't seek proper therapy until I was in my mid twenties because of it. Don't let this persons ignorance affect you, they clearly don't understand what you need. You deserve much better.
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Default Jun 19, 2021 at 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by NP_Complete View Post
Do you have a citation for this? I'm genuinely curious, because it seems like making your child strip down for you on a regular basis would just breed resentment and distrust and violate the child's privacy and bodily autonomy. I think there'd probably be quite a few other things to suggest doing before suggesting this.
Precisely.

Where I live, if the minor in question were an adolescent that would be considered sexual abuse. I cannot imagine that what this therapist is recommending to the mom is considered best practice anywhere. Furthermore even if a therapist is doing their job to the best of their ability and upholding the standards of their profession, you are not obliged to continue to interact with them or answer their questions if you don’t feel comfortable doing so.
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Default Jun 20, 2021 at 10:45 AM
  #17
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Precisely.

Where I live, if the minor in question were an adolescent that would be considered sexual abuse. I cannot imagine that what this therapist is recommending to the mom is considered best practice anywhere. Furthermore even if a therapist is doing their job to the best of their ability and upholding the standards of their profession, you are not obliged to continue to interact with them or answer their questions if you don’t feel comfortable doing so.
the minor teen did not say in their post they are afraid their parent is going to sexually abuse them. they were very clear the therapist suggested this because the parent needs to view the self inflicted wounds.

its a parents job to view a childs boo boo's or scrapes, cuts, breaks, sprains and so forth, then get the child the appropriate medical care.

according to the posters own posts the therapist recommended this because they were hiding their self inflicted wounds.

I have a teen with schizophrenia that self injures. there was a time when she hid her self inflicted wounds and I had to have her disrobe daily to check for wounds, medicate any fresh wounds, bandage the fresh wounds and determine whether any fresh wounds need the care of her medical doctor for the stitches or infections or possible life threatening situations that self injuring can lead to. thats part of being a parent.

my teen ager knows the difference between a parent doing their job and disrobing for sexual gratification. she was fully aware that the doctors and therapists were telling us to do this so that she could get her self inflicted wounds treated and bandaged.

my teen aged daughter learned to be more forthcoming and honest, and learned to tell us when she self injured so that her wounds could be attended to them by my wife and I or her medical doctors.

she also came up with her own ways to show us the self inflicted wounds voluntarily so that disrobing was not needed like wearing shorts and a muscle shirt when coming to us and saying "Moms, something happened, its right here.

My daughter learned to do this the easy way but there was a time when she enjoyed the secrecy and we needed to do our parental jobs of making sure her wounds didnt get into life threatening situations like infections or other things.

as a child I was sexually abused by some town folks. I was placed in foster care where the abusers could not have access to me while my parents and social services prosecuted my abusers. I was at that time a self injurer.

one set of my foster parents got charged with child abuse under the heading of "neglect" because they were aware of the fact that I was a self injurer and did not follow through with social services, the court ruling and my doctors/ therapists recommendation of strip down to view the wounds and make sure whether I needed medical care for my self injuring.

even in the eyes of the law and court system I was in at the time, there was and is a difference between doing a parents job vs sexual abuse.

I was a child of sexual abuse and even then in my mind I never thought or believed being told to disrobe for viewing of wounds was a sexual advance.

back then I was more worried about hiding my wounds then whether the foster parents were going to sexually abuse me for I knew full well the reason behind being told to strip down was for viewing the wounds. I knew sexual abuse and I knew this was not abuse being asked to strip down so that my foster parents could see and bandage my wounds or take me to the doctor.

the original poster was very clear in their post that this was not a sexual abuse situation, their post is very clear their parents were told to check for self injuring since they were hiding their self injuring.

if disrobing is too embarrassing theres ways for that not to happen, stop hiding the wounds, and wear clothing that will expose the fresh wound to the parents for medical care.

Edit to add...

yes the original poster is obligated to see this therapist if the parent who has custody says they have to. just the way it works here in the USA.

The poster is a minor (16 years old) in the care of their parents. as such until they reach the ages of 18-21 they are listed on their parents health insurance. and with what ever treatment providers the insurance plan requires of them / what the parents have selected for their childs PCP (primary care physician), mental health treatment provider and dental provider.

their parents decide who this minor can see for a therapist, medical doctor and so forth based on which treatment providers the parents health insurance plans cover. and if they choose not to use their health insurance parents choose the treatment provider that they the parent can afford to pay out of pocket for.

minors aged 16 and above can tell their parents they dont like that treatment provider but ultimately until a minor becomes an adult, it is the parents decision. they make the minors mental and physical health decisions until they become adults and they are the ones paying the medical bills, the therapy bills and so on.

Last edited by amandalouise; Jun 20, 2021 at 02:23 PM..
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Default Jun 20, 2021 at 02:19 PM
  #18
I don't care how you couch it -it is abusive, traumatizing, and wrong. This is exactly the sort of crap where therapy causes so much more harm than what it was sought to fix - it reminds me of the time when therapists justified forced cold hosing downs, tying people to beds for days sometimes stripped naked, and so on. There is absolutely no justification for this sort of humiliation. I can't imagine what sort of horrible parent would go along with such a horrible therapist

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Default Jun 20, 2021 at 02:29 PM
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by amandalouise View Post
the minor teen did not say in their post they are afraid their parent is going to sexually abuse them. they were very clear the therapist suggested this because the parent needs to view the self inflicted wounds.

its a parents job to view a childs boo boo's or scrapes, cuts, breaks, sprains and so forth, then get the child the appropriate medical care.

according to the posters own posts the therapist recommended this because they were hiding their self inflicted wounds.

I have a teen with schizophrenia that self injures. there was a time when she hid her self inflicted wounds and I had to have her disrobe daily to check for wounds, medicate any fresh wounds, bandage the fresh wounds and determine whether any fresh wounds need the care of her medical doctor for the stitches or infections or possible life threatening situations that self injuring can lead to. thats part of being a parent.

my teen ager knows the difference between a parent doing their job and disrobing for sexual gratification. she was fully aware that the doctors and therapists were telling us to do this so that she could get her self inflicted wounds treated and bandaged.

my teen aged daughter learned to be more forthcoming and honest, and learned to tell us when she self injured so that her wounds could be attended to them by my wife and I or her medical doctors.

she also came up with her own ways to show us the self inflicted wounds voluntarily so that disrobing was not needed like wearing shorts and a muscle shirt when coming to us and saying "Moms, something happened, its right here.

My daughter learned to do this the easy way but there was a time when she enjoyed the secrecy and we needed to do our parental jobs of making sure her wounds didnt get into life threatening situations like infections or other things.

as a child I was sexually abused by some town folks. I was placed in foster care where the abusers could not have access to me while my parents and social services prosecuted my abusers. I was at that time a self injurer.

one set of my foster parents got charged with child abuse under the heading of "neglect" because they were aware of the fact that I was a self injurer and did not follow through with social services, the court ruling and my doctors/ therapists recommendation of strip down to view the wounds and make sure whether I needed medical care for my self injuring.

even in the eyes of the law and court system I was in at the time, there was and is a difference between doing a parents job vs sexual abuse.

I was a child of sexual abuse and even then in my mind I never thought or believed being told to disrobe for viewing of wounds was a sexual advance.

back then I was more worried about hiding my wounds then whether the foster parents were going to sexually abuse me for I knew full well the reason behind being told to strip down was for viewing the wounds. I knew sexual abuse and I knew this was not abuse being asked to strip down so that my foster parents could see and bandage my wounds or take me to the doctor.

the original poster was very clear in their post that this was not a sexual abuse situation, their post is very clear their parents were told to check for self injuring since they were hiding their self injuring.

if disrobing is too embarrassing theres ways for that not to happen, stop hiding the wounds, and wear clothing that will expose the fresh wound to the parents for medical care.

Edit to add...

yes the original poster is obligated to see this therapist if the parent who has custody says they have to. just the way it works here in the USA.

The poster is a minor (16 years old) in the care of their parents. as such until they reach the ages of 18-21 they are listed on their parents health insurance. and with what ever treatment providers the insurance plan requires of them / what the parents have selected for their childs PCP (primary care physician), mental health treatment provider and dental provider.

their parents decide who this minor can see for a therapist, medical doctor and so forth based on which treatment providers the parents health insurance plans cover. and if they choose not to use their health insurance parents choose the treatment provider that they the parent can afford to pay out of pocket for.

minors aged 16 and above can tell their parents they dont like that treatment provider but ultimately until a minor becomes an adult, it is the parents decision. they make the minors mental and physical health decisions until they become adults and they are the ones paying the medical bills, the therapy bills and so on.
A situation involving forced nudity is humiliating regardless of whether it involves an active threat of sexual abuse. Adults would be traumatised by it, I don't know why a teenager should be expected to have the resilience to process such non consensual contact with their body.
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Default Jun 20, 2021 at 05:35 PM
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by amandalouise View Post
the minor teen did not say in their post they are afraid their parent is going to sexually abuse them. they were very clear the therapist suggested this because the parent needs to view the self inflicted wounds.

its a parents job to view a childs boo boo's or scrapes, cuts, breaks, sprains and so forth, then get the child the appropriate medical care.

according to the posters own posts the therapist recommended this because they were hiding their self inflicted wounds.
Excuse me, but a teen is not a child who needs their boo-boo handled by a parent. Not most teens I've known anyway. We had a pretty solid idea what injuries needed what treatment (granted, they weren't self-inflicted, and granted, it helped that there was rarely a need to hide them, and the injury being serious enough tended to override any such needs). Sure, there might be a medical risk, that's a fair point, actually. And I get that the parent is responsible in the end, and I'll defer to you WRT the legal stuff because I don't even live in the US.

Still, I think the risk of medical issues from SH should be weighed against the risk of further phychological damage resulting from inadequate treatment. We don't have the full picture in the OPs case in terms of the actual/likely physical injuries, but the psychological damage seems considerable. There are ways to encourage them to be more open about SH, and this persecutory attitude is the exact opposite of that. There's a reason OP is engaging in SH and there's a reason they're hiding it. This treatment is likely to re-affirm those reasons rather than diminish them.

Quote:
I have a teen with schizophrenia that self injures. there was a time when she hid her self inflicted wounds and I had to have her disrobe daily to check for wounds, medicate any fresh wounds, bandage the fresh wounds and determine whether any fresh wounds need the care of her medical doctor for the stitches or infections or possible life threatening situations that self injuring can lead to. thats part of being a parent.

my teen ager knows the difference between a parent doing their job and disrobing for sexual gratification. she was fully aware that the doctors and therapists were telling us to do this so that she could get her self inflicted wounds treated and bandaged.
Seems that you have a situation where it's a genuine necessity, AND there's enough trust between your teen and you for that to work. But in general, it's often toxic family stuff that leads to SH in the first place and this procedure is not easy to execute in a way that doesn't increase toxicity, and doesn't erode whatever trust there might be.

Just because it's the same, or looks similar to your experience, it doesn't mean it's a good way of doing things - in fact, it sounds like you didn't get the support you needed and deserved either. And it certaily doesn't mean that it can't or shouldn't be handled differently.
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