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SarahSweden
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Default Jul 03, 2021 at 10:23 AM
  #1
Over the years I´ve seen different counselors and therapists and some of them I still miss. I don´t see a therapist at the moment and I don´t expect to get access to psychotherapy in the future.

I´ve really tried to find someone who could help me but I haven´t succeeded but I though have fond memories of some of the therapists and counselors I´ve met with.

I understand that I subconsciusly search for being part of someone´s life and I guess it feels a bit like that when I see a therapist or a counselor. I completely understand I won´t be my therapist´s friend or that I´ll be part of her family but I get at least a little "mini part" of being close to someone.

I still miss my first therapist I saw seven years ago and now when it´s summer I think about what she might be doing, if she perhaps owns a summer cottage and spends her vacation there and with whom.

I think about my latest counselor who I left two months ago and I wonder what she´s doing, if she perhaps attends some dog training course or spends time with her family in their vacation home.

I live on welfare and I wouldn´t look for someone to live with as I don´t have any money, no job, no nothing really. By that I keep imagining what my former counselors and therapists are doing and I kind of wish I was part of their family. I know it´s just a fantasy and perhaps I wouldn´t find their family or their life as appealing if I really know how it is.

Seeing a therapist once a week, even if I in most cases knew that therapist or counselor wouldn´t be able to help me, made me feel a kind of belonging. An illusion of being part of someone else´s life and I felt less lonely. Someone to visit, someone to get a bit dressed up for, someone to prepare to see. I know it´s all very fraudulent and fragile but those "relationships" are all I´ve got during the years.
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Default Jul 03, 2021 at 10:37 AM
  #2
Hi Sarah,

I was moved by your post. As a person who lives with a physical disability, I think I can relate. I wonder whether you could look into volunteering opportunities where you are?

I struggled with a sense of not really belonging anywhere for quite a bit of my life.

When I started volunteering with the organisation I now work for, something shifted.

I think feeling valued is a significant part of belonging, and that's what I get from my little job.

Take care,

Lost

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Default Jul 03, 2021 at 10:48 AM
  #3
I can relate to your post, especially the last paragraph...'an illusion of being part of someone else's life'...I feel like this sums up my relationships with people, including my T.

I don't know how or why it's like this. Sometimes I feel really close to people, friends or work colleagues or my therapist. Then stuff happens and I can see that I'm not really a part of their life at all, and it was all quite one sided or just in my head.

I have felt close to people at work and with people I volunteered with, but as soon as I stopped working or volunteering there, people instantly forgot me. It would probably be the same with my T. I think he forgets about me in between sessions, or he says stuff like 'all my clients are in my thoughts...' whatever that means. I think it means I'm not special to anyone, but I wish I was.

Sorry you experience this feeling too, it is not nice at all.
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Default Jul 03, 2021 at 10:48 AM
  #4
I understand. We all want connection.

People on limited budget could have social life or roommates if they so wish. I belong to women’s social group, a few are on disability or retired so they are on a tight budget. They choose activities that aren’t pricey and might decline expensive outing but they can still partake in things that are free like a walk in a park.

Are there any support groups in your area? Somewhere to go even if just listen to other people? Walking groups? Bird watchers?

Any chance of finding part time job?
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Default Jul 03, 2021 at 11:10 AM
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostislost View Post
I can relate to your post, especially the last paragraph...'an illusion of being part of someone else's life'...I feel like this sums up my relationships with people, including my T.

I don't know how or why it's like this. Sometimes I feel really close to people, friends or work colleagues or my therapist. Then stuff happens and I can see that I'm not really a part of their life at all, and it was all quite one sided or just in my head.

I have felt close to people at work and with people I volunteered with, but as soon as I stopped working or volunteering there, people instantly forgot me. It would probably be the same with my T. I think he forgets about me in between sessions, or he says stuff like 'all my clients are in my thoughts...' whatever that means. I think it means I'm not special to anyone, but I wish I was.

Sorry you experience this feeling too, it is not nice at all.
It's like that with most people. You shouldn't fool yourself into thinking you are really close to people. You are just setting yourself up for disappointment. If you want a friend get a dog. If you are more independent get a cat.

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Default Jul 03, 2021 at 04:27 PM
  #6
Hi Sarah,

I think you expressed your wish very, very well. I can really relate to your sense of loss, even though my memory of experiences with therapists are more of frustration and disappointment than fondness.

The wish to belong – and the absence of belonging – are very real to me, too. I was married for 24 years to a man whom I loved, and I believed he loved me. He felt like my soul mate and I think it may have been that way for him, too. We belonged, together. But then he died.

And the lack of a sense of belonging with any anyone else was terrifyingly present. I had adapted to my family by meeting the expectation of others. Psychologists had suggested that they were fake – but I really didn’t see it. I didn’t have a non-fake reference point (besides my late husband and we are/were both a bit off the beaten track) and the years of therapy didn’t help much with that. Yes, I dug some up feelings and long-buried emotions – but then what?

In order to belong, one needs a social environment to belong IN. Yes, there are some things on the client’s end that perhaps are needed, too – but it’s not something that can be clearly enunciated to us by therapists, and the methods they currently have to try to help us “get it”, or something, certainly didn’t work for me. So then, I had a repeat – the social environment of mental health care is not one in which I belong, as a human being, either. As a “mental patient”, perhaps, but that’s not really belonging, as a human being.

It’s an extraordinarily difficult dilemma. One in which illusion and fantasy can seem better than nothing at all.

It may be very cold comfort, but it sounds like you may know some things about yourself that you didn't years ago. You might have learned them without therapy, or maybe have learned other things or more. But that's not what happened.

Can you think of a way that you can use what you now know about yourself to try to find ways where you might build a sense of (real) belonging? What has worked ( a little bit) for me is support groups -- but I tried bunches of them over the last 20 years. Some of them helped, some didn't, some were fantasies, too. So maybe you can think of another route which might work for you?

We all belong -- BECAUSE WE ARE HERE. But sometimes it's hard to feel that way, and also that may not be the way other people look at it and there's nothing you can do about them.
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Default Jul 04, 2021 at 07:25 AM
  #7
Thanks for your support. I agree volunteering can be something to do to meet with people but when I talk about being part of someone else´s life I mean something else.

I understand volunteering can lead to something bigger in the long run but I feel very low, sad and lonely and I just need someone to be there for me and listen, as the therapists and counselors did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostOnTheTrail View Post
Hi Sarah,

I was moved by your post. As a person who lives with a physical disability, I think I can relate. I wonder whether you could look into volunteering opportunities where you are?

I struggled with a sense of not really belonging anywhere for quite a bit of my life.

When I started volunteering with the organisation I now work for, something shifted.

I think feeling valued is a significant part of belonging, and that's what I get from my little job.

Take care,

Lost
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Default Jul 04, 2021 at 07:31 AM
  #8
Thanks. I´ve also experinced this shift between feeling close and not feeling close to people. I live on my own and for most of the time the only one I met with was a therapist or a counselor over the last seven years or so.

I think many people can tolerate those shifts better than perhaps you and I who easily feel left out. I guess you feel something similar to that. I don´t think a T you see regularly suddenly forgets about you but there will unfortunately always be a huge difference in how the T sees the relationship and how you and me as clients see it.

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Originally Posted by Lostislost View Post
I can relate to your post, especially the last paragraph...'an illusion of being part of someone else's life'...I feel like this sums up my relationships with people, including my T.

I don't know how or why it's like this. Sometimes I feel really close to people, friends or work colleagues or my therapist. Then stuff happens and I can see that I'm not really a part of their life at all, and it was all quite one sided or just in my head.

I have felt close to people at work and with people I volunteered with, but as soon as I stopped working or volunteering there, people instantly forgot me. It would probably be the same with my T. I think he forgets about me in between sessions, or he says stuff like 'all my clients are in my thoughts...' whatever that means. I think it means I'm not special to anyone, but I wish I was.

Sorry you experience this feeling too, it is not nice at all.
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Default Jul 04, 2021 at 07:47 AM
  #9
Thanks for your support here today.

Yes, my experiences with therapists are blended with frustration and disappointment as well. But now when I´m more lonely after leaving my counselor two months ago I think about moments in therapy when some of the therapists said something nice, I imagine being in their offices and so on. I can still remember how the office of my first therapist seven years ago looked like.

I can´t even imagine losing a person in such a way and after such a long time, I though understand it must have left a huge void. I guess those therapists weren´t at all good at helping you in your grief, many of them just looks for medical reasons and want quick solutions and that doesn´t work when it comes to grief.

I totally agree one shouldn´t identlify as a mental health patient just because you need some help during a period of time. I think mental health care staff should look upon their patients as humans first and foremost, not people who are "damaged".

I think I´ve learned about myself and a lot about psychology, psychotherapy and mental health care during the years I´ve met with counselors and therapists. But as my health has deteriorated rather than improved during the years I understand it´s more or less hopeless when I can´t pay for therapy myself and just choose whom I need to see.

There are no support groups I know of in my area where I could talk about what I need to talk about, how I feel and so on. There are a lot of meet-ups in different forms but not for getting support on what I need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by here today View Post
Hi Sarah,

I think you expressed your wish very, very well. I can really relate to your sense of loss, even though my memory of experiences with therapists are more of frustration and disappointment than fondness.

The wish to belong – and the absence of belonging – are very real to me, too. I was married for 24 years to a man whom I loved, and I believed he loved me. He felt like my soul mate and I think it may have been that way for him, too. We belonged, together. But then he died.

And the lack of a sense of belonging with any anyone else was terrifyingly present. I had adapted to my family by meeting the expectation of others. Psychologists had suggested that they were fake – but I really didn’t see it. I didn’t have a non-fake reference point (besides my late husband and we are/were both a bit off the beaten track) and the years of therapy didn’t help much with that. Yes, I dug some up feelings and long-buried emotions – but then what?

In order to belong, one needs a social environment to belong IN. Yes, there are some things on the client’s end that perhaps are needed, too – but it’s not something that can be clearly enunciated to us by therapists, and the methods they currently have to try to help us “get it”, or something, certainly didn’t work for me. So then, I had a repeat – the social environment of mental health care is not one in which I belong, as a human being, either. As a “mental patient”, perhaps, but that’s not really belonging, as a human being.

It’s an extraordinarily difficult dilemma. One in which illusion and fantasy can seem better than nothing at all.

It may be very cold comfort, but it sounds like you may know some things about yourself that you didn't years ago. You might have learned them without therapy, or maybe have learned other things or more. But that's not what happened.

Can you think of a way that you can use what you now know about yourself to try to find ways where you might build a sense of (real) belonging? What has worked ( a little bit) for me is support groups -- but I tried bunches of them over the last 20 years. Some of them helped, some didn't, some were fantasies, too. So maybe you can think of another route which might work for you?

We all belong -- BECAUSE WE ARE HERE. But sometimes it's hard to feel that way, and also that may not be the way other people look at it and there's nothing you can do about them.
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Default Jul 04, 2021 at 07:59 AM
  #10
People in this thread might be interested in this book:

Belonging – Remembering Ourselves Home, a book by Toko-pa Turner | Toko-pa's Official Website

I haven't finished it yet, but it explores our deep yearning to belong and how this is a part of the human condition. She speaks about belonging as something ancient and something which is more than having friends or volunteering, etc. It's a strangely reassuring and sad book. It looks at how we can belong and how we ostracize *ourselves*, as well as how we are cast out from the places where we should belong - family, community, etc.

So yes, I get the search for belonging. I think it's why I gravitate back to therapy even when I find my therapist painful. I yearn to belong and yet I am also fearful of it: the fake relationship with her is as much as I can manage. I push away from all of my personal relationships and whilst I still do this with her, I have to worry about it less.
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Default Jul 04, 2021 at 09:11 AM
  #11
Thanks. I listened to the presentation of the book on her website and it seems interesting. I think it can offer some comfort when feeling lonely and to read about other people who share a similar experience of not belonging.

I´ve sometimes thought that a therapeutic relationship will be the only one what will be possible for me as it´s too hard to form truly deep connections with others. At least a therapist, if she´s good, offer true compassion and understanding even if it´s in a limited form. If I had the money , I could easilty see a therapist just to feel less lonely and to avoid getting too depressed, to at least stay at the surface so to speak.

But that´s not the case when I´m stuck with what public health care can and can´t offer me. The danger with those therapeutic relationships will always be that they see it more as their job (and should do) whilst some of their clients, including myself, see it as a "real" relationship even if I know it isn´t. It feels like someone to rely on, and it partly is, but not to the extent I need.


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Originally Posted by comrademoomoo View Post
People in this thread might be interested in this book:

Belonging – Remembering Ourselves Home, a book by Toko-pa Turner | Toko-pa's Official Website

I haven't finished it yet, but it explores our deep yearning to belong and how this is a part of the human condition. She speaks about belonging as something ancient and something which is more than having friends or volunteering, etc. It's a strangely reassuring and sad book. It looks at how we can belong and how we ostracize *ourselves*, as well as how we are cast out from the places where we should belong - family, community, etc.

So yes, I get the search for belonging. I think it's why I gravitate back to therapy even when I find my therapist painful. I yearn to belong and yet I am also fearful of it: the fake relationship with her is as much as I can manage. I push away from all of my personal relationships and whilst I still do this with her, I have to worry about it less.
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Default Jul 05, 2021 at 01:41 AM
  #12
I understand that what you want is a treating person, who is professionally just for you during your time. And you are right, in normal life and in support groups etc. it is reciprocal. At times the other party can give or take more, but in general the relationship supports both/all parties. Maybe you should try if you are capable of a regular relashionship, even a friendship? A good start could be a support group, volunteering etc. Maybe your are has an fb-group where people can ask for company for walks or such.
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Default Jul 05, 2021 at 06:08 AM
  #13
Thanks. It's not that I've never had friendships but it's different to see a therapist. I see a therapist once a week, I can count on her (if it's a good therapist) and it gives me a bit of comfort and stability during the week. That's far from what a friend ever could offer me.

In some senses a therapeutic relationship is better than a friendship as friendships always get complicated in some way or the other. Being in a group is even more distant from the personal talks I get with a therapist. I've often seen them a bit as a mother to me as they've been older and all those components can't be found within a random group.

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I understand that what you want is a treating person, who is professionally just for you during your time. And you are right, in normal life and in support groups etc. it is reciprocal. At times the other party can give or take more, but in general the relationship supports both/all parties. Maybe you should try if you are capable of a regular relashionship, even a friendship? A good start could be a support group, volunteering etc. Maybe your are has an fb-group where people can ask for company for walks or such.
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Default Jul 05, 2021 at 10:05 AM
  #14
I understand what you say, but as you stated you don't have an access to a therapist at the moment I was trying to think where else you could find people to whose life you could be a part of. It sounds you do not want to be alone. But if a treating one is the only kind of a relationship you are after then maybe try to find if there is an organization to offer some free or low cost talking support or councelling A church, a mental health organization, a help line?
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Default Jul 07, 2021 at 11:07 AM
  #15
I think I've suggested this before, but I will again. Is there some place you can volunteer in Sweden? If you can do something to help someone else, that person will be in your life. Also, it feels good to be needed. Think about it.

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Default Jul 07, 2021 at 02:33 PM
  #16
I see you said that friendships are more complicated for you so you would like to talk with a therapist. Its interesting because for me the relationship with a therapist is more complicated. So much so that I don’t want to do therapy anymore or perhaps my luck with therapists has for the most part been bad.

I understand the desire or wish to be in someone’s life. It seems to happen often for those in therapy. I would like to share the other side of the equation. I had a therapist that was also in my life in a personal role and we did a lot of things together outside of therapy. I was a part of her life and at the time it was the greatest thing ever. But as time went on and she started to fade more I realized that she was not the same in a personal role as she was as a therapist and she lost her objectivity and things were not as great as I had imagined they were. So even if you wish to be a part of someone’s life, it may not be as great as you hope or imagine it would be.
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Default Jul 07, 2021 at 06:17 PM
  #17
I agree that a therapeutic relationship seems particularly well-suited to serve as a good compromise between a sense of belonging and not having to manage all the complicated aspects of actually being part of someone's life. I'm not sure how many therapists would agree, though.

I wanted something like this with my previous therapist, to shape that relationship into something that isn't quite part of either of our lives. but when we're there, we share it, we belong, and work together. I'm not saying I didn't at times wish I could be part of her actual life, but it also felt a lot safer not to, so the therapeutic boundaries seemed kind of convenient altogether. I mean In 'real life' I felt like I couldn't possibly contribute enough to ever feel her equal. Whereas in therapy, in theory, I could. In practice, there was a connection to be sure, it was quite difficult for both of us to let go, but it was some weird mutually toxic sort of closeness. I hardly ever felt anything I brought to the sessions was valuable, and it was practically impossible to talk about the relationship itself. With new therapist, so far so good - I might be lucky to have found someone who's more open to shaping the relationship based on what works, but I'm only just starting to explore possibilities in earnest, so I might be in for a very rude awakening in the near future when I trigger something that the previous more careful approach didn't set off..

This is also true in general - as much as I wish I could be part of someone's life, I feel too inadequate to actually want to try, and I'm too ashamed of my life to want to make anyone else part of it. In particular, social interaction tends to be way more exhausting than any enjoyment I might get out of it. Except for spending a limited amount of time with close friends, and chamber music. So I normally go for group activities that I enjoy, like making music, natural history walks, or nature related volunteering - where the main focus is on the activity. But none of it works all that well. Still loads better than nothing, of course.
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Default Jul 12, 2021 at 01:34 AM
  #18
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I live on welfare and I wouldn´t look for someone to live with as I don´t have any money, no job, no nothing really.
Plenty of people of welfare have partners. Why shouldn't you?

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Default Jul 12, 2021 at 09:50 PM
  #19
For me it was more like reverse transference. I sensed my former female LCSWs were in love with me. But this could be De Clerambault Syndrome on my part. It's been pretty weird for me. Seeing therapists and never knowing for sure if they really like you or not. I actually found it inappropriate. They are professionals. And they did stay professional for the most part. Maybe I just imagined it. Who knows?
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Default Jul 18, 2021 at 04:22 PM
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by comrademoomoo View Post
People in this thread might be interested in this book:

Belonging – Remembering Ourselves Home, a book by Toko-pa Turner | Toko-pa's Official Website

I haven't finished it yet, but it explores our deep yearning to belong and how this is a part of the human condition. She speaks about belonging as something ancient and something which is more than having friends or volunteering, etc. It's a strangely reassuring and sad book. It looks at how we can belong and how we ostracize *ourselves*, as well as how we are cast out from the places where we should belong - family, community, etc.

So yes, I get the search for belonging. I think it's why I gravitate back to therapy even when I find my therapist painful. I yearn to belong and yet I am also fearful of it: the fake relationship with her is as much as I can manage. I push away from all of my personal relationships and whilst I still do this with her, I have to worry about it less.
I have been wondering if people reading this thread, or other people generally, might be interested in trying a support group on the theme of belonging, our longing for it, and far too often our estrangement from it?

I had poor experiences with therapists but have had a good experience with a support group I lucked into about 7-8 years ago. It’s just a general support group – everybody in it was experiencing depression at the time.

There was a conflict among some members and it broke up after 6 years but 3 of us are still talking and I am talking separately with one other. The experience with these people has provided me with a glimmering sense of being accepted for myself that therapy never did, and therapy didn’t provide me with the ability to make friends that I felt a sense of belonging with on my own, either. I count myself very lucky.

I don’t know if an online group can duplicate any of the kind of group experience I have had but if anybody is interested I’m willing to try. I think we could set it up as a social group, assuming the administrators approve, and if it seems to work and people want to expand it, we could look into some video options.

I think we would need at least 3-5 people to start.

If you are interested, please respond on this thread or you can PM me if you prefer. Please also post any ideas you have about a potential group and what you would like to maybe help it work for you, to help you explore and develop your sense of belonging with other people, and on this earth.
here today is offline  
 
Thanks for this!
comrademoomoo, RoxanneToto
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