What if you don't agree?

((((((((ScarletPimpernel))))))))

Hugs, Scarlet. Do you have a sense of what she could say to you that would be helpful? And/or what you wouldn't want her to say? If so, that could be good to share with her. Or to try to explain why what she said (with the big word) didn't help you. I know those sorts of things can be difficult to explain though. So even just to say it didn't help without explaining it, maybe?

I just talked to her on the phone. She did say some things that helped.
1. She admitted she does have images in her head, but she doesn't dwell on them. They don't trigger her. That made me feel good that she was honest about her thoughts and was reassuring that they don't affect her like they do me.
2. She compared other people suffering. For example, if one of my nieces was suffering from a secret, would I pull away from her? And my answer is, of course not! I would be more likely to be there for her more than normal. L said she feels the same way.

There's nothing I wouldn't want L to say. I want her to be open and honest. I did ask her to be gentle using big real words, and to be careful with nouns and context. But whatever is on her mind, I want to know.

The big word she recently used, we're still disagreeing on. She doesn't think it applies, I do. She says that what matters is how I feel and think. But I want her to be on the same page as me. I feel like if we're not, then she isn't understanding.

My last several emails I've used many big real words. I think I'm going to write her another email defending my case on why it applies. She said she'll probably not respond back in detail via email, but would definitely discuss things in session.

I'm glad she was helpful in the phone call, Scarlet.

In regular life, does someone have to agree with you in order to understand you?

I guess no. People disagree all the time. I don't know. I just feel like she's not judging me because she's biased or is in denial. I just want her to see the badness inside of me. She says we're all angel and all devil, but I feel like she has blinders on the devil parts of me.

I don’t think that she is in denial or has blinders on. She remains a professional and looks at this from a professional stand point. I am not saying she’s pretending but she is a treatment provider.

Plus I thought you don’t want to be judged. So she doesn’t. If you feel that you really need someone to acknowledge how bad that was, and maybe you need in order to heal, there have to be some online venues on irl people where you can disclose it and people wouldn’t be understanding.

I don’t have any secrets of this caliber but I had situations where I was wrong and I apologized but the person was like “oh it’s fine no big deal”. It was a big deal! It was bad! Sometimes we need an acknowledgement that things were bad and we did wrong things so we can heal.

But you typically won’t get that judgement from a therapist

Honestly, I don't know what I want. I'm so overwhelmed and mentally messed up right now. I don't want her to judge me...and I do. I go back and forth. I just want her to see me as me. I guess I have to trust her with that.

She likely does see you as you, I think she proved it by being a responsible and thoughtful therapist. But still in realms of being a treatment provider. So there’s a limitation. I feel that you want more but “more” likely isn’t possible here.

I guess we all want to be seen and heard. But there’s always a limitation to it, not just with a therapist. No one could really fully “see” us, sometimes we can’t even “see” ourselves! Just my thoughts

Hugs.

What do you think of the following:

You tell her you have a lot of badness. She doesn't accept that, she tries to convince you to think differently. And so you feel unheard.

That sounds like what I've been trying to say just worded slightly different.

I do feel unheard and unseen. Maybe there's not a lot of badness inside me. She know I would never harm someone maliciously or forcefully. But there is bad in me. There's bad in everyone. If this thing isn't considered bad... then how am I bad? Because this is the worst thing in my life.

I think I might be understanding her a little. She cannot judge me morally, ethically, or legally. She doesn't have the knowledge or the power. Like she said, she is just my therapist. And being neutral on this...I guess that's how she really feels. She's been 100% honest with me this far. Why should I doubt her about this?

I am probably wrong, but this is what is crossing my mind. I hear you unable to forgive yourself, and to justify your harshness on yourself, you want your therapist to justify your unforgiveness.

(Note: I'm about to go into a faith topic that I am sure not everyone wants to read or agrees with, so feel free to skip this paragraph.) In my faith practice, there is this thing called "grace." It is a concept of forgiveness for our humanness - even the worst of our humanness - even before we ask for forgiveness. It doesn't free us to partake in bad behavior, but it does assure us that our humanness doesn't condemn us. And God just sits there and patiently waits for us to work through our humanness, but all the while, He has already granted forgiveness long before we even knew we needed forgiving. Sometimes, I just have to trust that despite my own view of myself, there is this acceptance and grace out there that is rather beyond my full understanding. And I find God is a rather patient entity; He will just sit with me while I work things out, and I find that patience very reassuring.

Your therapist has no reason to condemn you or honestly forgive you for something that happened years ago involving someone else. It didn't happen to her; it isn't her history. She is listening to and validating your experience. She isn't the one who was hurt by your history and she isn't going to "feel" that history the way you do. She is accepting you where you are, with all your foibles, and waiting for you to move forward and away from that judgment that you place on yourself.

You do not seem to trust that she will wait patiently with you. You expect judgment because that is what you know, but perhaps there is a different way for humans to interact that can be learned for your own life. Your ways haven't worked for you; they have kept you in distress your entire life, but habitually (like all of us) you default to what you know. So, perhaps this isn't about "agreement," but rather, about patience and grace and forgiveness of yourself so that you can find a different way of viewing yourself and interacting with others that is healthier and more "grace"-ful.

I also believe her when she says that she says that she doesn't judge you, and she is neutral about the specific thing.

I think you are saying she acknowledges that you have bad in you, as we all do--but if the specific thing isn't bad, then what does make you bad?

Maybe she is saying that:

1. you have done bad things, like everyone
2. the specific thing, though, in her eyes, isn't one of them

But to you the specific thing is so bad that it is the worst thing in your life. So maybe this difference in perception of the specific thing is why you feel unheard and unseen?

Grace is a hard concept for me to accept for myself. I understand the concept from God and even from a relationship standpoint (i.e. I give L grace to make mistakes). That was an over-generalized example, but I hope you understand what I mean. But accepting it from God or others is hard especially with the secret.

You're right. L has no reason or place to condemn me or forgive me. She is not my "judge, jury, or executioner". Like she said, she is just my therapist. And it's a good thing that she can remain neutral about this. It shows she has good boundaries.

Giving patience, grace, and forgiveness to myself is extremely difficult. I don't feel I deserve it. It feels like I'm not taking responsibility for my actions. I don't want to lets myself "off the hook".

I do understand what you mean about defaulting to what I know. I learned judgment from my family and my church. I'm very good at judging myself. I also am a people pleaser and a perfectionist. If I don't live up to my standards, then I punish myself. That was part of the reason I used to SH. But you're right, it's not helping. I've gotten nowhere with this. It's stayed buried for a long time and has only festered. That's one of the reasons I'm finally opening up about it here and with L. I want to not only be responsible for my actions, but I want to live my life (if possible) from the guilt and shame.

Yes, I think so. I guess I'm learning through talking with you all and L, that this thing isn't as bad as I'm making it out to be? It's bad, but not condemningly bad? I know most don't know what it is, but whatever it is you're assuming, you all seem accepting.

L says we're going to process this some more. She also reminded me again of circle living/core-self.

I need to trust L that she will guide me on the right path. I'm not expecting her to have the answers, but to support me in healthy ways along this path.

At least I'm trying something different: bringing this to the light, talking it out, being open and honest.

Perhaps, and if it is a bad thing, it may be one bad thing in a sea of good. That can be forgiven, can't it?

Or maybe it is that bad...someone else reacted negatively... I give up on telling people. I already judge myself. I don't need to be judged by others.

I know what you mean. I have told people the worst thing about me, and reactions ranged from being laughed at for being silly, being asked how I could live with it, being left standing there, the other person having left, and some shades in between.

Telling someone is hard, because you will never know how they react, but not telling them is also hard, because they will never know you. That, at least, is my experience. To me, it makes me want to withdraw. If they laugh, I feel misunderstood. If the leave, I feel broken and abandoned. If they understand and stay, I feel as if on eggshells, as if I have to do everything they want from now on, because I ought to feel eternal gratitude for their naivite (I judge them for staying). If I don't tell them, there is a world of distance between us.

There's really no way for another person to react appropriately. And me, too, even if I were okay with that part of me, I could still never tell anyone and accept their reaction as a function of their own free will, mind and heart, that I would but accept without not at least considering the potential impact on my life.

I'm not sure I am helping, but I thought I'd share...

**Trigger Warning for history (in case it triggers people).

I totally relate to the different feelings from each possible reaction. I don't feel the need to tell people in my life about the secret. H knows as well as T and L. Not my family, and they will never know. They're judgmental people and would use it as ammunition when needed. Also, without knowing, they've made jokes about it which really hurts. I told T and L early on because I did want the help, but I figured if they were going to reject me, to get it done and over with early. With H, T, and L, I did feel like I have to walk on eggshells for a long time. Like I have to be extra good to make it up to them. I know it's backwards thinking, but that's what I did. I still feel that way now sometimes.