I really wish I could handle therapy

I’ve tried several therapists, and each time I found that painful and distressing feelings of trauma got triggered. They would come over me after a session, they were usually linked with some kind of rupture. I always went back and talked about it, and I tried so hard. I kept on and on going back. I don’t think I could have tried harder or been more open or vulnerable. With each therapist, over time, my sleep became terrible, and I felt I should stop. I got some benefit from the therapy, but not in proportion to the money I paid and the negative impact on me (in terms of not sleeping), during the time I was having the therapy. Also, after I quit a therapist a year ago, I’ve had a struggle to ‘put myself back together’.

I still so wish I could do therapy. I think it has so much potential for me. I wonder if anyone reading this will think the fault in the failure of my therapy lies with me? I honestly feel it lay with the therapists’ needs in the sessions. What I need in therapy seems simple and straightforward to me. I will probably try again at some point, I haven’t given up hope of finding a T who is gentle enough for me.

I am so sorry that you have suffered. Psychotherapy has never been very helpful to me and it has stirred up many unwelcome thoughts and feelings. More helpful to me has been reading books by famous cognitive behavioral therapists. These types of self-help books have been very useful. The only therapist who really helped me without hurting me was an elderly woman psychologist. I hope you find things that help you. You deserve a life where you can have peace of mind and joy of living!

I’m so sorry that its been so difficult. I remember our discussion last year about how how your termination with your formerly-great longtime therapist went badly and how painful that was. I was having a similar experience at the time.

Is there something besides therapy that might offer you some of what you need? Like a structured journaling program? A mindfulness practice? An exercise program? Massage? A regular (virtual if nec) date with a friend? An art (or whatever) class?

I’m sure that’s occurred to you. None of it fills exactly the need that therapy does but each thing might fill some needs in ways that are unlikely to traumatize you.

And no, I don’t think the fault lies with you. I hope you do find the gentle therapist you need. In the interim be gentle with yourself.

I'm so sorry you found it so tough. It is tough. May I ask how long you tried with each therapist? I had the same with my Ex T, for a LONG time. I would say it took over a year and a half of twice weekly sessions for me to get to a point where I actually felt I was getting somewhere. Up until that point I had near constant nightmares; sleep disruption; days on end on th sofa unable to function; a strong belief that there was nothing that was going to help me and a regular desire to quit therapy. But we both perservered and it really has changed my life.

For me, it took a special kind of therapy. One that I don't think most people are willing to provide, or even understand. Regular talk therapy would not have helped me in the same way, I am sure.

They do say that if it isn't working for you, it isn't your fault, you just don't have the right person or the right model of work. I believe that.

Do you have any strong inklings of what you do need? That might be a really useful starting point?

Thanks for all your replies.
Yaowen, you always write thoughtful replies. It’s comforting to me, to hear from someone else who also found that stirred up unwelcome thoughts and feelings, and it wasn’t much help. I’ve also found the things that I do myself are helpful.

Favorite Jeans, thanks for remembering me, I remember our exchanges too. How are you? what I’ve found that helps is meditation and exercise outside. I’ve had a hard time sleeping this year, I feel ok really, apart from that, not being able to sleep is debilitating. I started meditating daily, usually morning and night for 1/2 an hour, and this has made a huge difference to me. I seem to be able to sleep when I do this, and also feel great. It’s so time consuming though.

Waterbear I think I’ve read all your posts over the years about your therapy, and I’ve liked hearing your story. I saw a couple of therapists for about two years each time. And another for 9 months.

So I wanted to respond to your thread earlier but did not have the time. I talked with you a bit in my thread about incompatibility with one-on-one therapy - I responded to your post there earlier, and like I said in it your post had me thinking more about therapy and whether I took any unnecessary blame accidentally.

So what I would like to say here, I eventually came to the conclusion in my own thread on this topic, this conclusion is strictly for myself, but I'll share it anyway:

Random drama played out on my most sensitive emotions + unproven theory and mental experimentation = no therapy for me.

I got to this conclusion after I checked out a book on therapy and some articles based on the recommendation of another poster.

Here are my additional thoughts for your thread specifically:

It is normal that trauma processing is hard and distressing and painful. However, if the therapist / therapy method is unable to help keep it contained enough for you, then it's no good, of course. And not your fault or anything like that.

I also have learnt that it's pointless to try in any way to be more open or vulnerable that does not spontaneously happen.

Not going to claim that spontaneous opening up is always a good idea - but if it is forced, it definitely is not going to work and is just going to do damage, IMO.

What I find is OK for myself right now is working on my own on stuff and finding help from other places other than one-on-one therapy (my thread has posts from others that list alternatives or give pointers to alternatives if you want to check it out).

One thing I have to be careful about is not doing it all too fast, too hard. That can disrupt sleep for sure. And other things in life.

Introducing change in your life is always going to be stress. Whether external or internal change.

I've read that work on the psyche, emotions, feelings, can be just as hard and taxing as physical exercise, work requiring hard mental efforts or other hard work.

(This makes total sense in my case.)

So I do suggest incorporating this into your way of planning your days while working on your problematic feelings and whatnot.

Keeping it all under the surface may also work, if you feel that's what you want to do, of course. It did not work for me after a while but it can work for others for their whole lives is what I've seen. I suppose it depends on the particular life path of the person, what happens to them, their goals, visions, and so on.

As for what I've bolded in your OP:

What simple, straightforward thing do you need in therapy? If you don't mind saying more on it.

Can I ask, how long ago was it when it finally got somewhere like you describe it? What were/have been the tangible benefits from it?

What kind of special therapy was it? If that's no secret, I'd be curious.

Did you not have any need to go work, to earn a living while doing this intensive therapy?

For me, a big problem is I do have to earn a living while doing this work on myself too.

Some more things since you mentioned a "special kind of therapy".

I've talked to people who did more "mystical" or almost religious things (healers kind of stuff), rather than Western therapy.

For me, I do not believe in such things. But I do feel like current Western therapies *are* missing a few things for some people at least.

IFS and EFT seemed the most sensible for me personally so far but not enough. Also the emotional imagination practice in REBT (a form of CBT).

But again, it's just not enough for me.

A lot of the Western therapies just seem too rational sometimes. Or too theoretical and analytical. Too speculative and experimental.

Or non-analytical therapies expecting me to be sensitive to feelings on the spot in a way I'll never be.

Just my own take and experiences.

Hi Etcetera, thanks for your reply. I really like the way you described this:

‘Random drama played out on my most sensitive emotions + unproven theory and mental experimentation = no therapy for me.’

I identify with that too - the drama playing out on my most sensitive emotions.

In answer to your question: ‘What simple, straightforward thing do you need in therapy? If you don't mind saying more on it’

I need a therapist to listen and respond with acceptance, respect, curiosity, kindness, humility.

Hey Etcetera, sorry for the delay, I haven't been in a great place to be honest and answering these questions was too much for me, but I wanted to get back to you...

Can I ask, how long ago was it when it finally got somewhere like you describe it? What were/have been the tangible benefits from it?
Sure, I think it took a couple of years, maybe even three, of twice weekly sessions for me to get to a better place, a place where I had much more of a feeling of self worth. A place where I felt I could face the world as ME - not as some switched off robot. A place where I felt I could start to think about making friendships and changing my life for the better. The tangible benefits? HUGE. I divorced my husband after many years of wanting to, but never having the strength to fight for what was right for me. I made real friends, something I had never done before, not since Junior School at least. I started to learn what I enjoyed about life, I found a hobby, a passion and I even turned this into a small business for myself. Something I NEVER would have had the strength or belief to do before therapy. I used to make my colleagues Christmas cards but would never give them out because "why the hell would anyone want to receive anything I had made". I now run my own craft business selling my creations and teaching other people how to craft too! I am back in touch with my family properly and am continuing to try and build relationships with them (ongoing struggle) and I learnt how to feel again, after years of being cut off from myself and completely shut down inside. I have cried, I have hurt, I have felt anger for the first time since my Teenage years, but I also learnt to love. I learnt to open my heart to another human being and THAT is what I believe has led to these life changing things.

What kind of special therapy was it? If that's no secret, I'd be curious.
It's no secret - it is what I have come to know as reparative therapy. We had to go right the way back to working with my youngest inner child. A child who never felt safe, who never felt loved, who was abused and mistreated and ignored. My T became like a Mother to that child, but also to me, as she helped me to learn how to take care of those parts of me. She modeled the care and compassion and belief and joy and pride that should have been modeled way back then. We worked in a very 'childlike' way, with books and toys and games and drawing and activities that I would imagine she would use with 5 year olds. But she never made it feel weird. It was all just a part of the process. We had fairly close contact, twice weekly sessions and email and text in between. She was always there when I reached out, completely insecure and struggling to hold on to the connection that started to build between us. Eventually the sessions changed as my wounded child began to heal, and so too the out of session contact reduced. I no longer needed to check she was there, I knew she was, and I knew she cared, in a way I had never felt like anyone had before. The way I felt no-one would ever care.
We also used safe and nurturing touch, which is something that a LOT of therapists are uncomfortable with, and it is this that I think was one of the most healing aspects of the work. When we would hold hands, or I would lay my head on her shoulder, or she would reach out to me, I could actually feel these surges of feelings. The sadness became real for me in a way I don't think it would have been able to without it. The love became an actual feeling rather than just a word that is said. The anger became dynamic rather than stuck inside and projected inwards. And I felt safe in a way I had never felt safe before. I felt safe in a way that I really didn't when she was sat over the other side of the room.

Did you not have any need to go work, to earn a living while doing this intensive therapy?
I did go to work, yes. I am a shift worker and work a full time job. I am fortunate that I had no children and that at the time of this work my husband was away serving with the Royal Fleet Auxiliary. I must admit I always think that life has a way of helping us to find the right path at the right time. I spent 7 years in the Forces, and there was no way I would have been able to do this work at that time. But this job I have now affords me time off in the week (as I work a lot of nights and weekends) and so I can earn a living to pay for my therapy. It has cost me almost £15,000 to date from my own pocket, but that money has bought me a life.

For me, a big problem is I do have to earn a living while doing this work on myself too.
It is hard, especially if your job means that you struggle to 'fit in' the breathing time and sessions that you need. This therapy was very intense for me, but somehow I did manage to switch it off when I walked through the office door (Armed Forces teaches compartmentalisation VERY well it seems, and switching off my emotions has never really been the problem, feeling them has been)

Some more things since you mentioned a "special kind of therapy".

I've talked to people who did more "mystical" or almost religious things (healers kind of stuff), rather than Western therapy.

For me, I do not believe in such things. But I do feel like current Western therapies *are* missing a few things for some people at least.

IFS and EFT seemed the most sensible for me personally so far but not enough. Also the emotional imagination practice in REBT (a form of CBT).

But again, it's just not enough for me.

A lot of the Western therapies just seem too rational sometimes. Or too theoretical and analytical. Too speculative and experimental.

Or non-analytical therapies expecting me to be sensitive to feelings on the spot in a way I'll never be.

Just my own take and experiences.[/QUOTE]

I get that last bit, and it is why 'Traditional Talk Therapy' would not have helped me to go to the places inside that I needed to go. Sure, it might have helped on a very superficial level, but I don't think they would have been deep, long lasting, life changes like I experienced. I became much more a whole person. I no longer hate that wounded child, I love her. I no longer feel I am not worthy in this world, I feel I deserve a place in it and I have found my place in it. I am continuing to learn to connect my body and my brain again, and (whilst I still have a lot of work to do on my older child and anger) I have healed that huge gaping hole in my heart that was always searching for a Mother. I have had that experience and I will ALWAYS be grateful for it.

That said, it has been hard. Seriously hard, and it is still hard today. Especially because my therapy didn't end in the way that it should have done. I never had the tapering down, the latter years, the learning to walk away. But I am finding my way and no matter how hard it is that my T ended abruptly, it was so worth it.

I hope that helps. I am writing a book about my therapy process because work like this isn't documented well. There are those that denounce it with passion and there are a select few who really seem to understand the true power of it when done correctly, with the right people. I'm so lucky I found the right person (well, luck and judgement, it took a lot of trial and error to find the right therapist six years ago) and I am so fortunate to have had the opportunity that I had.

Any questions, please do ask, I will answer them if and when I can.
All the best to you - being a human is NOT an easy task, and healing is not an easy process.

Oops I just reread your first question... It was probably about 3 years ago that I got to the place that I described. I come and go from it still but I no longer feel so trapped in isolation.

Thanks very much for the thorough and detailed answer. Very much appreciated. No worries about any delay, people do have a life outside the forum too.

It's awesome that your therapist was able to give you that hope to try to get somewhere with life and then made you feel loved too, I've read that physical touches give people oxytocin ie makes connection more easy, so maybe it helped with that, I mean after you were able to trust her enough to get anything out of her touch, I guess. How long did it take before you got anything out of it?

Looking up "reparative therapy" I only found hits for conversion therapy for homosexuals to change their sexual orientation, so it's clearly not that one, do you have a good link by any chance?

The need for emotional modelling by someone else, yep that absolutely makes sense for helping kids with emotions or for reparenting in therapy like you received it I guess.

This reminds me I've read about an EMDR-like approach for alexithymia from trauma (numbed emotions basically like yours were), and that uses another approach to learn/relearn feelings. Something like going through perception first to observe them before ability to actually feel them. I can find the reference if you want me to.

Your therapist's approach sounds more in the real life than that though, this actual modelling of the emotions for you, yeah.

That is so interesting. Did you have to take time before you could trust her enough to get anything out of her touching you?

Because if so, then yes, I think taking that time first, is the hardest part of the process.

I have tried to go through something like your process with getting stuck emotion moving again (not anger in my case) but not with a therapist.

It's kind of yeah, the hardest ever work I've ever had to do.

And where you mention it not being compatible with working in the army, yeah, I also had a job that was very demanding. I have an easier one now, so it helps too.

And yes I was OK with compartmentalising, but the mental effort the "work on myself" part required while also having to meet the demands of the difficult job, that was something I'd never wish on my worst enemy and I'm glad it's all past me now

And overall yeah, I get you. I just do not believe in any kind of deep therapy at all, where I am now. I am very mistrustful of the risk of losing myself in the therapy relationship, so I bet it takes a very good team (with supervisor, support group for the therapist etc) or a very good match with a therapist for it to work without all the unnecessary pain. I don't mean all pain is unnecessary, but that a lot of it in therapy was unnecessary for me as it did not lead to productive emotional processing.

I mean I get that it worked for you and I'm glad you did find a therapist that could do it for you, I'm just talking about my own experiences with therapy here

In short, I lucked out and found other resources to do what you did with the family problem as a kid so that part of the work is also past me, but the word "therapy" makes me run far and fast.

I'm sorry about it. Relationships and connections do end eventually : ( loss is part of life but yeah it's worth it is how it's supposed to be

Let me know when the book is out Seriously though I'm actually really curious. I have considered writing one myself, because it was such an unusual journey too and not what you usually get in therapy, but I don't know if I'll have the time for it. Especially as it would not be saying too many nice things about the current state of most standard therapies lol

Again, appreciated much. You explained all this very clearly, I think I only had a question about whether you have a reference where I can read about this type of reparative therapy. Oh and the bit on how long it took before touch worked for you in therapy.

Just a short answer for now, if that's ok? Yeah, I should have written that in my post, don't search for Reparative Therapy, you won't find what you are looking for. It was actually my first T I saw (who couldn't do the work with me) that called it this. I did as you did, because I didn't believe it was a thing, and I came up with the same things as you, and even though I searched a LOT through our work together, I still couldn't find anything that was explaining the kind of work I was doing.

There are a couple of sites that talk about 'Reparenting', but most tend to be really very regressive and. to me, kind of wacko - people laying in blankets being fed by a bottle by the therapist kind of thing. But who am I to judge as most people would probably think doing a kids 100 piece jigsaw with a therapist is kind of wacko too - at times I even thought it was, but it worked, for me.

Hence why I am writing a book, because I couldn't find anything that I needed to read in any of the books or websites that I came across. Anything about how powerful basic human connection can be in healing from trauma and developmental/attachment issues. For some... I know it wouldn't be right for everyone and honestly, I do kind of think it's quite rare to be able to get the right match.

With regards to how long it took for touch? We certainly took a little time with it, but it was a deep felt need from day 1. I knew I needed to be physically held. I knew I needed to feel a loving touch upon me. I don't know more than that about it, just that I knew I needed it and was upfront about it when I was looking for therapists. The first few months we looked at touch in general. She had me close my eyes in one session (VERY HARD) and reach into a bag she had filled with objects (yeah, I guess I must have trusted her on some level quite soon in order to be able to do that!!) Without using my eyes I had to guess what they were, focussing on the sense of touch. Another time she had placed random things around the room and asked if I wanted to get up and go to any of them. I was so stuck, Just frozen. I couldn't talk or move. So she asked if I wanted her to come with me. Still stuck, still frozen. So she asked if she could bring me anything and I just pointed to the pile of cuddly toys and she scooped them all up in her arms and brought them to me and I just sat there cuddling them, touching their soft fur.

I'm pretty sure the first time we 'touched' was another time I was stuck and frozen. Drifting off into the darkness after something had been said I guess. She came and crouched right in front of me and took both of my hands in hers. Wow, that was so powerful. It felt like she had come and found me. I'm trying to think how long that would have been into the work, probably a couple of months? Maybe a little longer? And it was just a one off at that point.

It might not have been that long after that we started hugging at the end of sessions. She asked me one day "would you like a hug" and I said yes, please. I don't know if I would have asked, certainly not so soon. It would have taken me a couple of years to find the courage to, probably, for fear of rejection. I had real issues with telling her I loved her, for the same reason, but that's another story!

As for how long it took for me to get anything out of the touch, I guess I did straight away, though as with most things, the use of it and the benefit of it slowly changed and developed over time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brown Owl 2 I wonder if anyone reading this will think the fault in the failure of my therapy lies with me?

I don't think so.

Therapy is odd. It's a power division that requires forming trust and alliance, a very different type of relationship than most.

Therapy should never be about blaming the client. Any responsible and competent therapist would never do that. If a therapist does that it is a reflection on their lack of introspection and unawareness of their biases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brown Owl 2 I honestly feel it lay with the therapists’ needs in the sessions. What I need in therapy seems simple and straightforward to me. I will probably try again at some point, I haven’t given up hope of finding a T who is gentle enough for me.

My present therapist once told me not everyone is suitable for psychotherapy. There are different reasons for this. Sometimes it may just be the wrong timing in one's life.

I tried therapy when I was between the ages of 16 and 21. It didn't work, so I put an end to it. I quit over the phone and nicely too. I told the lady I felt unheard and misdiagnosed. She had no choice but to respect the decision.

Therapy at that time perpetuated my suffering and made me hostile and suspicious of all the clinicians who interacted with me. It had to end because it making me worse.

Leaving the office constantly feeling worse is a sign something is very wrong and should never be ignored.

I returned to therapy at the age of 34 after I was diagnosed with ASD. This time it worked out for me. Feeling heard definitely made a huge difference.

Thanks much again (it wasn't too short don't worry ). By reparenting btw I meant more like in Schema Therapy. Haven't heard of the type of "Reparenting" approach you mention here. I agree it sounds quite regressive into like actual baby age.

I'm seriously interested in the book like I said!, I mean feel free to PM me if you want to talk about it or give information for me as a prospective buyer of the book. You don't have to, I'm just saying if you want to, I'm not trying to intrude.

As far as this topic, I would say I read a little of Carl Rogers and he admits in his writings (what I read anyway), that he doesn't know exactly (but this was decades ago) how it gets established initially in some cases, but that basic human connection or attention is needed to start healing yes. His version was about a sort of receiving/being "received". He admitted he doesn't know enough about how it gets established in those cases - mostly "by luck". So, I have not seen any detailed descriptions or books on this note of his but I know I experienced similar. (By luck, yes....) So all this makes sense to me.

I will quote from Rogers: "When the person in the first stage can experience himself as fully received then the second stage follows. We seem to know very little about how to provide the experience of being received for the person in the first stage, but it is occasionally achieved in play or group therapy where the person can be exposed to a receiving climate, without himself having to take any initiative, for a long enough time to experience himself as received. In any event, where he does experience this, then a slight loosening and flowing of symbolic expression occurs, which tends to be characterized by the following."

Thank you again for the detailed description. Yeah it doesn't sound like most therapists would try to do any of these things and I can understand how this helped. Again your note on how this got emotions flowing again, that was something I never read anywhere like this before. I've read about other complicated mental techniques but this one is simple, real and not about mental experimentation. I'm sure your book will be interesting.

If you don't mind me asking, with this power division along with trust, do you mean it's like an adult/child relationship?

Did your therapist also admit that "standard" therapies & applied psychology in general is not quite there *yet* for a large enough part of the population?

I'm kindof sick of - repeatedly - hearing that some people are "not suitable" for (individual) therapy, when it may actually be that the therapies are not suitable for some people.

Very big difference.

Completely agree. Existing methods of analysing and evaluating objective feedback for the successful continuation of therapy are based on this simple idea, that the client regularly leaving in a worse (or unimproved) state is very wrong and should never be ignored.

Though, the little devil's advocate in me is again coming out..... What if that worse state means the client is simply more emotionally detached and maybe even numbed than before? How would the client even know that something's up with that if he/she didn't receive any information on this issue?

And it does happen.

That's great that it eventually worked out for you! Where you said you felt unheard and misdiagnosed, what was your original diagnosis? (I mean if you don't mind answering. Plain curiosity, no real point with the question)

I'm kindof sick of - repeatedly - hearing that some people are "not suitable" for (individual) therapy, when it may actually be that the therapies are not suitable for some people.

Very big difference

100% agree with this. Aw

No, I am specifically referring to therapists in a position of power who can deny and force treatment such as psychiatrists. -- As far as I know this is very different from my parental relationship.


I don't know. But I believe there is no such thing as a treatment that works for every person. It's highly individual.



I don't know. Perhaps someone else can answer that. My knowledge of psychotherapy theory is limited.

I'm not posting the diagnosis here since it may upset people.

You can find this information by searching my threads. Note that it isn't on my profile page.




I can't tell if your reply is hostile or not. I'll assume it is not.


P.S. I like your directness. Wish more people were like that.

Ah OK, I see what you had in mind.

Thank you. And no, it wasn't hostile. I have no problem with you. I'm angry at some problems with therapy in general though, for sure.

I can relate. I think that therapy, with a good therapist, does have much potential for you (and for me).. There must be a therapist, somewhere, who is more gentle/gentle enough for me.

Hugs and respect

Thanks. If only we could find them. Though I’m
satisfied with not doing therapy at the moment and am studying, doing yoga and fitness, meditating and I have a new hobby which I’m loving. One day I’ll try therapy again.