Do we get fooled by their "therapist persona"? I think we do.

Thanks.

I agree some of my beliefs about my former therapist and how I percieved her are based on my projections. I guess I want a therapist who is similar to me in how she lives, what values she has and so on. Even if I agree the therapeutic skills aren´t depending on how the therapist lives per se, to me it´s the wholeness that matters.

I want someone who can relate to me and who I can relate to, it isn´t only the tehcnical skills that matters. I think I´ve believed a little too much in the therapist being able to relate to me when she in fact used techniques to made me feel heard and validated. Which of course is positive and a skill I appreciate in a therapist.

Of course anyone can spend their money on what the like and suits them but my trust in a therapist builds from feeling that she has at least partly a similar life as mine. That means she doesn´t have a lot of money or live in a large and fancy house. For example my former therapist, who this post is about, told me she didn´t have that many friends and she also told me she and her husband couldn´t have kids. To me, such things tells me she can relate to me and my situation.

I understand it´s not all happy and lucky for a person who has a lot of money and a large family but it´s much harder for me to bond with such a person than with a person who lives a similar life as I do.

IDK if you’re familiar with the concept of fundamental attribution error? I think it’s helpful whenever we extrapolate a lot (especially deep things like values) about a person based on a few details or actions, which of course is the situation we find ourselves in with our therapists a lot. I think that could easily apply here.

It’s easier to be happy when we decide that people’s goodness is genuine, that their crappiness is just clumsy and not personal to us (with few exceptions for truly dangerous people), and that we are all just doing our best.

Do people have to live lives similar to yours in order to understand you?

You kind of have to accept that “a lot” of money is kind of relative. What you consider lots of money might not be for others.

Also would it give you peace of mind if you tried to feel happy for other people? Someone else always has more than us. We just can’t escape it

Nothing wrong with looking for a therapist with a similar life style. Like certain age or gender or other details (I wanted therapist with immigration experience for example). That’s understandable. You focus on finances a lot though, not being happy they are financially better off than you. It’s just something you probably have to accept.

Not criticising you, Sarah as I've asked my current therapist a lot if she can relate to my past and current circumstances and the painful experiences in my life.

I firmly believe folks can sense incongruence in therapists and my T does agree folks can sense inauthenticity.

There's also nothing wrong in wanting a therapist with common shared values.

I'm using examples here on how my therapist shows me her shared values even though we're very different socio-economically and in other significant ways.

As she lives in a really nice house with her parents and siblings and sometimes goes to nice fancy restaurants.

As well as certain demographic features as she's got a PhD, and more opportunities I never got, and I'm not university educated.

She doesn't have to personally have experienced what I have and what other clients have, in order to be able to put herself in my shoes. She can empathise and respond with compassion (and not pity, folks can sense it).

She can still relate in important ways because she knows a wide range of people in her professional and personal life. Which of course I don't know details about, due to confidentiality, but she has said stuff on which shows me she understands.

I'm sure there are therapists who only know other middle class people etc.

My therapist has a sliding scale where those who can easily afford more, pay more. And those in financial hardships pay less.

I'm currently mostly unable to work yet don't qualify for even time limited partial state assistance with living expenses. Even as my life savings are almost gone and I've been malnourished as a result. Which of course is depressing and I get suicidal often.

So I'm seeing my therapist for free, temporarily.

Another example, my therapist is Christian and my society in general is full of conservative Christians with certain values which are very bigoted.

Disclaimer: Please know I don't hate Christians, and I'm NOT looking to start a debate and am only using my lived experience as someone with a ton of emotional scars due to experiencing a ton of direct and indirect harm from a particular kind of Christian.

So, I have had justified fears I'll be referred to "conversion therapy" or be judged for my sexual orientation and gender identity. And of course I projected onto my T. Which is probably normal.

My T proved to be safe, understanding my fears and deep pain, and I've been slowly working on my religious abuse.

Some questions. You don't have to answer these.

Maybe that therapist of yours gives therapy at a church in order to help the less fortunate?

Maybe she donates money to charities?

Maybe in her restaurant business, she pays workers a good wage (some places have no minimum wage or it isn't enough to live on) simply because she wants to, instead of accumulating even more money as she knows she's well off?

I had similar thoughts as in the last paragraph.

When we eat in the restaurant and pay for our meals we help to keep restaurants open (especially during covid when so many lost their business), when we leave generous tip we help restaurant staff. Since she used to work in a restaurant business, she knows that for restaurants to survive people have to eat there! When restaurants get closed all these people lost jobs and it’s not a desirable outcome for staff

When we had a complete lock down and all restaurants were closed, we had a couple open for limited carry out, most didn’t even do that.

I used to go once a week to pick a meal from this one catering venue. During lock down they tried to keep their business open by selling cooked meals on the weekends.

One could assume that I did that because:
I am rich and spoiled and want others to cook my food for me, I am lazy and .don’t want to cook, I have something wrong with my values, I betray my faith because I spend money on picking up food, I don’t understand how other people don’t have what I have, I am not authentic etc

But in reality if I and others didn’t do it, the place would lose their business and people. lost their jobs and they did not. Many people continued ordering food from restaurants during lock down because they didn’t want people to lose their jobs. We had one restaurant closed after 35 years in business because of covid.

I think when we assign motives to other peoples’ actions, we speak from the place of our own bias/stereotype and project our own perceptions of things on other people without really knowing or understanding what’s going on. We all do it at times. But it typically doesn’t do us any good.

There are lots of millionaires that are pastors!

I´ve heard about the fundamental attribution error and I now read a bit more about it. How the therapist acts in therapy and the details we get through that could very likely lead to such an error. As the therapist most likely share only bits of themselves it´s through that therapist persona that we draw our conclusions.

Not that remarkable or odd really but it can for sure lead you onto thoughts about our therapists that aren´t concurrent with reality.

I think a therapist needs to at least have experienced some of what I´ve gone through to relate to me in a way that makes me feel understood. It can´t just be technique or guesses only but also lived experience.

It´s not the money per se, or the salary they make that matter to me. It´s the life I assume they live, I know it might not be as I think it is, but still a lot of money gives you a completely different life style than I have.

As with my former therapist, she was married to one of the star chefs in Sweden and they run several of Sweden´s most expensive restaurants. Of course that´s not what I would have guessed or expected if I had been asked "what do you think your therapist has worked with before she was a therapist?"

That´s because, as I see it, the top notch restaurant business which really doesn´t have poor people as their main customers is very far from working within church and sitting peacefully listening to peoples problems. Often people living under difficult conditions.

Perhaps I see it this way as I´m not a person who could work within very different businesses. I´m very true to my personality and my values and they don´t change. I could never get into a business or job that doesn´t align with my personality or values. I´m not interested in trying out a lot of things, I know where I stand and my values has to fit into the work I do.

My qualified guess is that my therapist got tired of working in different restaurants and living such a hectic life as I understand she and her husband did. That she wanted some other value to her life and by that changed her life rather radically.

Thanks for sharing about your experiences.

I think some therapists can relate to what their clients experience even if they haven´t experienced the same thing but I´m sure not all can. I feel more related to a therapist who I know have experienced similar hard times as I do instead of them using hints from other clients, people, situations and so on.

My former therapist (I don´t see her any longer but looked her up on Google a few days ago) doesn´t work within the restaurant business any longer but only within church and as a therapist. Her then husband and her owned several of Sweden´s most exclusive restaurants and I don´t get the impression that they worked to help poor people through their businesses.

I can´t know how they lived in detail of course, my point was more to show how surprised and chocked one can be when finding out things that don´t go along with your (my) image of a therapist.

“Your impression” of them helping or not helping poor people might be completely incorrect. You have no ways of knowing what if any portion of their salary was donated to charities or what portion of their money goes to support a disabled relative for example. Bottom line you just do not know.

You do not know if they experienced hard times, you just don’t. Your “guess” that a therapist got tired of hectic life and that’s why she became a therapist might be a 100% incorrect. You can’t really call it “qualified” guess

Yes having money makes one’s life different versus having no money. Therapist would have a different life than you by a sheer logic of them having a job and income. What’s your definition of a lot of money?

I just don’t see how these assumptions help you to live a better life? If it does, it’s all good. I just see you being upset over lives other people live but how does it help you? I’d try to focus on improving my life. Other people’s lives are irrelevant

If anything, it seems to me that your former therapist's change of career is evidence for not assuming things based on what someone appears to have.

If you just looked at my life on paper, you'd no doubt assume I know nothing of suffering or penury. The reality is I do know what it's like to have no money... to struggle to pay my medical bills or buy a meal out, let alone dine in fancy restaurants and go on expensive vacations.

I would also suggest that being so choosy about employment is a luxury most people in the world can't afford. Most people don't have a social welfare system to fall back on - they either take any work they can get regardless of their mental or physical health. Otherwise they're on the streets. This is true even in many developed countries.

I know it's not a pleasant thing to be told, but sometimes you need to focus on the things you do have rather than everything you don't. For example, I reminded myself that I was fortunate to have a roof over my head and plenty of blankets when I felt sorry for myself because I couldn't afford heat. When I begrudged others their restaurant meal, I tried to remember that at least my situation wasn't so bad that I ever had to wonder where my next meal would come from. That as a woman, I am not confined to my home for lack of menstrual products or have to risk assault if I need to go to the bathroom during the night. I don't have to worry about contracting cholera because my community lacks water treatment facilities and access to clean water. Etc. etc.

I'm not trying to cram gratitude down your throat or even suggesting forcing gratitude upon yourself. But spend some time trying to comprehend what it's like for people who have less than you and it's hard not to feel at least a little better about your situation. Doesn't mean you won't want these things you don't have, but it takes some of the sting away in my experience.

And to reiterate, you never know what someone's gone through or is going through. Certainly not by their occupation.

Restaurant owners are job creators. From farmers to truck drivers to waitresses to dishwashers to the sommelier to the old lady stomping on the grapes.

Eta : per susannahsays, i remind myself that 14 people live in my apartment somewheres else in the world.

Really? Well all christians must be saints, then.

Again, so many assumptions about how others live their lives.

To me => you keep blaming other people for failing to live up to your expectations or beliefs. It is not their fault if others don't conform to how you want them to be.

I think this topic just hit a nerve for several people, me included. I keep coming to this thread and I should probably stop but I continue being bothered by the concept that people who work (hard demanding jobs that likely pay well) somehow have easier life then those who don’t work (and understandably have less money). I am not saying that everyone must work. Of course many cannot, or cannot work full time.

I understand that I am oversimplify it but I am bothered by generalization that those who work (get up early, commute, have demanding stressful tasks to complete) have easier life than those who don’t work (as a generalization not even looking at specific situations). It contradicts common sense to me and is borderline offensive.

My husband has Tourette’s with severe OCD. Life is a struggle. He works a demanding hard job for which he is somewhat fairly compensated, extra due to working night shifts. If someone said he just doesn’t understand hardships because he can buy nice things or travel or go go to a fancy restaurant or maybe even that he isn’t a true Christian is very illogical and somewhat offensive.

Sure there are people who were born into money or inherited money or won a lottery. But those are very few selected ones. Most people have money and buy things because they have earned it! Often very hard way. And keeping a job and deal with work tasks is a hardship all in itself!

And in a specific situation of a woman working for a restaurant business, those are very very hard jobs. Very stressful!

I too have been in and out of this thread. I am offended by the characterization that anyone who has been paid well for working hard, changing careers and enjoying the life they have built for themselves is somehow fooling another person by not revealing their net worth or life struggles in a professional relationship. A person's net worth (be it a dollar or a billion dollars) and lifestyle (frugal or luxurious) do not correlate directly their value as a human. Or to their ability to understand and listen. Or to their personal suffering and life experience.

The judgement that to be a true Christian means you must be poor and austere is just that... a personal judgement. You weren't fooled by a therapist or a limited view of them as a person. You were fooled by your own judgment and bias.

Re the Christian thing. On one hand, I can hardly say you don't have a right to your opinion, Sarah. I am not personally offended as I am not a Christian. I can't say I think it's an accurate generalization, though I think I understand where you're coming from. I'm really only critical of the people who claim to be Christian yet won't pay a living wage and earn their millions and billions on the backs of the most marginalized. Or millionaire pastors, I can't really get on board with that.

I can't say they aren't Christian, though. Nowhere in the 10 commandments does it say Christians must live a life of poverty.

Read the story of the rich young man and Jesus. The man approaches Jesus and asks what he must do to get into heaven. Jesus says he must follow the 10 commandments. The man replies that he has kept the commandments, what else can he do? Jesus replies that if he wants to be perfect, to sell all his possessions and give to the poor then come follow him. The man regretfully goes away because he has great wealth.

Jesus reflects to the disciples that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Harder than drawing a camel through the eye of a needle. The disciples, alarmed, ask who can then be saved when it is so hard. Jesus says the impossible is possible through God. Jesus doesn't criticize the man for being rich, or for not giving up all his possessions. He acknowledges how hard that is and describes it as being "perfect." All he really indicates is that those who sacrifice more will enter heaven first and receive a greater reward than those who sacrifice least, who will enter last. (And I believe there's a parable where Jesus teaches that sacrifice isn't about quantity but is proportional. That explains why it's so hard for the rich. It's easier to divest yourself of your possessions when you have little to lose. I can't remember the details for that story though.)

My takeaway is that Jesus did not condemn the man for being wealthy, nor for failing to rid himself of wealth - that would be perfection. He indicates that those who sacrifice all will be rewarded most, which is different than saying those who do not sacrifice as much will be punished.

That's just my interpretation, of course.

My therapist is unusual...she is like an open book. Tells me all about her life, both personal and work. Most of the time, she acts more like a friend than like a therapist. In one way I appreciate her openness, but sometimes I wish she was more "professional."

There has been more evil perpetrated by religion or religious conviction than probably from any other cause. Particularly against women. I am talking about all of them -no one in particular. I would never hire anyone on the basis of their religion nor would I expect those professing allegiance to any religion as being a sign that they would act in a decent fashion.

In you qualified guess can you tell me what the personaliry of a person who works as a restaurant worker compared to a a finance person compared to therapist?

It is very common for people to change careers in order to be happier and better utilize their skill sets. It is also common for people to work in restaurants during college because of the schedule flexibility. However, working in a restaurant can be gard because of the schedule requirements... evenings, weekends and holidays.

I agree. I have spent mych of my adult life being judged by my siblings because I have it easy. We grew up poor with significant food and housing insecurities. Both my husband and I attended college and worked hard to get so that we could have a middle class lifestyle. For yearshusband worked three jobs and owned an appartment bilding so I could be a SAHM mom. WHhen my kids were all in school he was able to return to having one job. Our jobs are very demanding his physically and mine mentally.

On the other hand my brothers have made different choices and and struggle financially. They think my husband and I are just lucky.