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Old 05-13-2022, 03:59 PM   #121
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Default Re: Couch 237: Social Rules

NP_Complete, you are ABSOLUTELY NOT an awful person because you want some attention. Babies cry when they want attention, but pretty much no one thinks a baby is attention seeking! Likewise adults do need attention as well. We need comfort, we need validation, we need reassurance, we need someone to SEE us for who we are, and what we have been through. I am sorry that you are feeling really shut down about major events in your life and that people don't care. I can relate to that some but I don't want to detract from your post. Everyone deserves to be seen. Everyone deserves to be able to tell their story when and how they wish and to have that validated. Everyone deserves to take up space. I am sending you warm, enveloping hugs and I am letting you know that I care. It might not mean much, just some random person in the internet but right now, in this moment, I am seeing you, in the pain you are in for being shut down, and I feel the pain with you. You are not alone. HUGS. Kit
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Old 05-13-2022, 04:05 PM   #122
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Default Re: Couch 237: Social Rules

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Babies cry when they want attention, but pretty much no one thinks a baby is attention seeking!
I see you haven't met my mother.
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Old 05-13-2022, 04:06 PM   #123
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HUGS Comrade
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Old 05-13-2022, 04:29 PM   #124
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I wish this whole Depp v. Heard thing would just go away. I'm not following it, but it's hard to avoid at the same time.

On a possibly related note, I'm feeling really something that it feels like I can't speak about major events in my life. It feels like no one gives a crap, no one wants to listen, my mom wants to pretend my husband never existed, I'm making too big a deal about what happened, it wasn't actually a big deal, I should be past it all by now, etc., etc., etc. Feeling shut down. I don't want to go to therapy tomorrow, but if I email him and tell him that am I just really looking for attention? Am I an awful person because I want some attention?
I'm sorry you're dealing with these feelings. Could your therapist maybe give you some of the attention you're seeking, if you go to the session? Could you tell him beforehand that you need attention and what sort you're looking for? You're certainly not an awful person for wanting that. (Is it possible you got those messages from your mom from long ago, and now she's just reinforcing them?)

I know for me, if I'm feeling invalidated by my mom or others in my life, validation from my therapist can be helpful and healing. Could you tell him that you really need validation, to be heard, etc.?

And hugs, if wanted.
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Old 05-13-2022, 05:04 PM   #125
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Babies cry when they want attention, but pretty much no one thinks a baby is attention seeking!
I don't think babies are attention-seeking, but, man, plants...all they do is sit there and say "FEED ME."

(Why I do not own plants. My sister better get back here before my mother's houseplants and/or garden die from me neglecting them.)

NP, I think things come off as attention-seeking when people aren't honest about what they're feeling or needing. Like we all have at least one of those annoying people in our lives that drops dark hints about Something Wrong but leaves you guessing--that's attention-seeking. I don't get the sense you're that kind of person.
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Old 05-13-2022, 05:10 PM   #126
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My mom was just here for a visit. I was avoiding talking about it on here because other posters were dealing with mother-related situations and I didn't want to upset them, so I apologize if this is triggering. This was the first time I've seen her since both the fire and my father's death. I think I really wanted to tell her how hard the last several years have been and how awful (abusive? I'm beginning to doubt if I can call it that anymore) my marriage had gotten. I just wanted to feel seen and heard. I cracked the door open while she was here, but it didn't seem she was willing to go there with me. I had considered bringing her to a therapy session, but I had reservations about that and P didn't seem wholeheartedly into that idea, although I may have been reading into that somewhat. Basically, I felt neither seen nor heard during her visit and I've been having some difficulty accepting that. In our last session, P suggested that I may have to just accept the relationship for what it is, but even that leaves me feeling kind of dejected.

Something came up during our work virtual happy hour yesterday that was pretty directly related to the fire. They were talking about burning something and I told them that I could say from experience that it probably wouldn't burn very well (laminate flooring). Someone asked if there was a story behind that knowledge and I mentioned I had a house fire a few years ago and the flooring was surprisingly not that badly damaged. I don't know. I felt stupid for saying that and I felt unheard because I couldn't say how the fire happened and I felt a little triggered. I know this incident is playing into this feeling, but I'd feel so stupid telling P about this because I feel pretty socially inept most of the time. That's something my ex used to tell me all the time and it's something that got ingrained pretty deeply.

It probably doesn't help that this was also the first week that we've had to reduce our sessions so he can do his clinicals for school. Which is probably making me want more attention, which I then feel bad about myself for.
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Old 05-13-2022, 05:22 PM   #127
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Default Re: Couch 237: Social Rules

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My mom was just here for a visit. I was avoiding talking about it on here because other posters were dealing with mother-related situations and I didn't want to upset them, so I apologize if this is triggering.
OK, this statement basically shows that you're the *opposite* of attention-seeking. And that you're being very considerate of others' feelings.

Quote:
This was the first time I've seen her since both the fire and my father's death. I think I really wanted to tell her how hard the last several years have been and how awful (abusive? I'm beginning to doubt if I can call it that anymore) my marriage had gotten. I just wanted to feel seen and heard. I cracked the door open while she was here, but it didn't seem she was willing to go there with me. I had considered bringing her to a therapy session, but I had reservations about that and P didn't seem wholeheartedly into that idea, although I may have been reading into that somewhat. Basically, I felt neither seen nor heard during her visit and I've been having some difficulty accepting that. In our last session, P suggested that I may have to just accept the relationship for what it is, but even that leaves me feeling kind of dejected.

Something came up during our work virtual happy hour yesterday that was pretty directly related to the fire. They were talking about burning something and I told them that I could say from experience that it probably wouldn't burn very well (laminate flooring). Someone asked if there was a story behind that knowledge and I mentioned I had a house fire a few years ago and the flooring was surprisingly not that badly damaged. I don't know. I felt stupid for saying that and I felt unheard because I couldn't say how the fire happened and I felt a little triggered. I know this incident is playing into this feeling, but I'd feel so stupid telling P about this because I feel pretty socially inept most of the time. That's something my ex used to tell me all the time and it's something that got ingrained pretty deeply.

It probably doesn't help that this was also the first week that we've had to reduce our sessions so he can do his clinicals for school. Which is probably making me want more attention, which I then feel bad about myself for.
That all seems incredibly difficult, I'm sorry. Both your mom and what happened with the work gathering.

It makes total sense to me that the exchange at the work happy hour plays into how you're feeling. I don't think P would find that to be stupid at all.

Really, any one of the things you mentioned (your mom's visit, happy hour, P reducing sessions) could lead to feeling the desire for more attention, let alone all of them together.

And from what you've said about your marriage, it definitely sounded abusive to me. Even just the fact that your ex kept calling you socially inept, like a way to keep you down.

I do hope you can talk to P about all of this. Including how it's feeling that you've had to reduce sessions. Is that temporary or permanent?
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Old 05-13-2022, 05:40 PM   #128
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Default Re: Couch 237: Social Rules

H was actually really nice to me. I told him I'm struggling and feeling frozen. He told me not to worry, that if I don't pack everything, we can do it after the move because we still have the apartment for another week.

I'm getting my haircut today as well to try to feel better about myself.
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Old 05-13-2022, 05:51 PM   #129
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I do hope you can talk to P about all of this. Including how it's feeling that you've had to reduce sessions. Is that temporary or permanent?
This question makes me laugh right now. I have no idea. I know his clinicals are only until mid-July when he's done with his program. He's told me that he's going to sign another year's lease on his office or move to a different one in the same building. I'm not sure what his career plans are at this point. I have some feeling about the journey since he first told me he was going to be leaving up until now. They're not all gracious and although I think he could handle hearing my non-gracious thoughts about this roller coaster ride he's taken me on, I'm having real difficulty in telling him. He said he wished he hadn't told me, but he kind of had to tell me when he did because the plan back then was he was moving in 4 months. I can't really be mad at him because other than the decision to go back to school, none of how this played out was his doing, but I'm kind of peeved at the whole situation. And it feels like I shouldn't be because the end result has been we have had and will have more time to work together.
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Old 05-13-2022, 08:27 PM   #130
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This question makes me laugh right now. I have no idea. I know his clinicals are only until mid-July when he's done with his program. He's told me that he's going to sign another year's lease on his office or move to a different one in the same building. I'm not sure what his career plans are at this point. I have some feeling about the journey since he first told me he was going to be leaving up until now. They're not all gracious and although I think he could handle hearing my non-gracious thoughts about this roller coaster ride he's taken me on, I'm having real difficulty in telling him. He said he wished he hadn't told me, but he kind of had to tell me when he did because the plan back then was he was moving in 4 months. I can't really be mad at him because other than the decision to go back to school, none of how this played out was his doing, but I'm kind of peeved at the whole situation. And it feels like I shouldn't be because the end result has been we have had and will have more time to work together.

You have the right to be mad at him for taking you on the roller-coaster ride, even though it ultimately gave you more time with him. It led to stress and anxiety not knowing how long he'd stay around. Just because the end result is OK doesn't mean you can't be upset with the process it took to get there.
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Old 05-13-2022, 08:27 PM   #131
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H was actually really nice to me. I told him I'm struggling and feeling frozen. He told me not to worry, that if I don't pack everything, we can do it after the move because we still have the apartment for another week.

I'm getting my haircut today as well to try to feel better about myself.

I'm glad your H is being supportive. That's good you have the extra time with the apartment. Hope the haircut was helpful!
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Old 05-13-2022, 08:37 PM   #132
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Default Re: Couch 237: Social Rules

Hugs if you want some, NP. There's no timeframe for "getting over" something, and you experienced prolonged abuse by your Ex.

If people can be bitten once by a dog and develop a lifelong phobia, which people respect... how much more what Ex did to you? Plus, your mother is being invalidating, and minimising.

Even if you were seeking attention (and my T says it's "connection seeking"), there's an unmet need there. To be seen, heard, cared about when you're having a difficult time over events which you feel shame about "not getting over it fast enough".

When I've asked similar "I should be over it by now", to my T (some events from my adolescence, so really long ago), she would say "whose voice is that?".

There's also a difference between talking about an abusive relationship VS processing the trauma from it, but I don't remember what it is. Other than it's the T's job to help so the client doesn't get retraumatised.

I'd be frustrated and stressed with your T's lack of clear plans.
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Old 05-13-2022, 09:30 PM   #133
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Thought I would say hi to everyone since passing through to get advice on med change.

As an update - life keeps trudging along. And I mean trudging, no capacity for anything that even nudges the boat of my life.
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Old 05-13-2022, 11:59 PM   #134
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Thought I would say hi to everyone since passing through to get advice on med change.


As an update - life keeps trudging along. And I mean trudging, no capacity for anything that even nudges the boat of my life.
Elio! Couch 237: Social Rules Glad you dropped by. I doubt you'd be alone with such a life. Stay here and type if it helps?

Personally I feel stuck in survival mode, and don't feel the joy people around me feel about pandemic restrictions being loosened. I'm happy for them, of course. I just feel like I'm separated by a glass wall despite how one of my friends has invited me to plans during Pride month.
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Old 05-14-2022, 01:53 AM   #135
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NP, forgive me if I've pitched it before, but some of your situation and background are perfect for EMDR. There are certain things in my past that I had talked about many times with my T and felt frustrated for not resolving. Then when I got up and running with EMDR, I was able to re-process those incidents in like 2-3 sessions. I still remember the events, of course, but I don't get upset anymore when I'm reminded of them. It's like the memories just needed a slightly different approach to get unstuck. Even just working through the fire would probably be an enormous help. And one nice thing is that you don't have to describe details out loud to the EMDR therapist if you don't want to. Just thinking about them is enough to re-process them. Obviously you wouldn't want to replace P, but you can do this as an adjunct to your normal talk therapy. I was a huge skeptic, but it's been super effective for me.

Just based on what you have shared here -- which I'm sure is not everything -- your relationship was absolutely abusive. It's not even a question to me.

My T likes to say that I'm not attention seeking but that I want to be attended to, which sounds different to me. I'm sorry your mom wasn't able to listen and validate your feelings the way you deserved. You have been through a lot, and the fact that she wasn't able to mother you the way you deserved on this trip (and maybe in general?) says much more about her than about you. We all need to feel heard and supported by the key people in our lives.
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Old 05-14-2022, 08:53 PM   #136
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Spent most of today at this large indoor waterpark, fun times all around.
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Old 05-15-2022, 09:46 AM   #137
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Rant incoming.

No. Do not force us into a cashless system. Such systems enable someone to track our every movement and, ultimately, those data could be shared with police, the FBI, marketing companies, who knows what entities. I mean, it's probably not worthwhile to do that for parking data but it is coming and YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN!

Seriously, though, going completely cashless sounds convenient until something goes wrong and your balances are all suddenly zero. Or Russia hacks Chase Bank. Or there's a solar storm or magnetic storm that destroys things. Or... I'm not hoarding gold bars, but I'm not putting my FREAKING retirement savings into cryptocurrency, either!!! Do I have to change my accounts from Fidelity now? What a hassle.
I don't think banks are super secure, I feel like a lot of Internet banking sites have really bad IT security? Can't even use a strong password for some, though I don't know if it's just my part of the world.

Often, so I feel in my part of the world, the transaction limits on accounts are way too high too, even at the lowest ones.

There's supposed to be "2 factor authentication" true, but I bet people can crack the algorithms? Just like how folks have cracked software licence code algorithms for MS Office before Office went cloud-based. Plus it's easy enough to scare people so they'll give you their "one time password".

There's plenty of places near my current apartment where paying through scanning a QR code with your smartphone is impossible for folks on certain telcos due to bad signal and lack of cell towers, despite how it's not at all rural but high density apartment blocks and shops in a little cluster.

Often enough, cards aren't accepted by these shops too because accepting cards costs them. So I use cash quite a lot for daily living.

The only difference is more automated machines at (in person) cashiers to count the coins and notes in a "hands free" manner due to the pandemic.

A number of Aaian countries, including my own, made contact tracing apps mandatory during this pandemic. Yeah, and I'm not surprised that data is indeed used by the police etc.
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Old 05-15-2022, 03:13 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by NP_Complete View Post
I wish this whole Depp v. Heard thing would just go away. I'm not following it, but it's hard to avoid at the same time.

On a possibly related note, I'm feeling really something that it feels like I can't speak about major events in my life. It feels like no one gives a crap, no one wants to listen, my mom wants to pretend my husband never existed, I'm making too big a deal about what happened, it wasn't actually a big deal, I should be past it all by now, etc., etc., etc. Feeling shut down. I don't want to go to therapy tomorrow, but if I email him and tell him that am I just really looking for attention? Am I an awful person because I want some attention?


Hyrum smith identified that needing attention was one of the 4 core issues that drive all behaviour and make us human.

You're not awful for wanting to be been seen. Like kit said we see you and your pain.

You're not making a big deal out of anything. There isn't a set timeframe for healing. You don't need to minimize what you went through. Email P if it helps.
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Last edited by Lemoncake; 05-15-2022 at 03:27 PM..
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Old 05-15-2022, 03:19 PM   #139
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I'm not a fan of a cashless society either.

Gold and silver will help with inflation. As with having a safety net of food items.

I like idea behind Crypto and do have a small holding (30 worth the last time I checked in the two largest coins and solna ), but it's not something I will be investing heavily in.
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Old 05-15-2022, 03:34 PM   #140
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Hyrum smith identified that needing attention was one of the 4 core issues that drive all behaviour and make us human.

You're not awful for wanting to be been seen. Like kit said we see you and your pain.

You're not making a big deal out of anything. There isn't a set timeframe for healing. You don't need to minimize what you went through. Email P if it helps.
I love my Couch! Or more generally, MSF. Partly because you laugh at my jokes. I think thats my safe space - if my mother was laughing, she wasnt growling. Altho im a little disappointed that y'all didnt see my crack here elsewhere about how on Jan 6, people were just looking for toilet paper.

Eta - lemonblossom, thanks for this! Franklin planner hyrum, i knew the name sounded familiar. I just got his retirement book, thanks to you.
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