Couch 237: Social Rules

ArtieTheSequal · 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectricManatee

I'm knitting some fingerless gloves to give to ToddlerManatee's preschool teachers. I must really like them to deal with all these tiny finger tubes...

I'd love to see a pic when they're done, I never could get the hang of knitting and admire the heck outta those who can do it!

eta: how DO you keep the yarn on the needles without hooks?

ArtieTheSequal · May 28, 2022 at 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

Yeah, I do wonder if I'm doing this. I'm trying to get from him what I didn't get from my dad. And I've been getting lots of support and validation from Dr. T recently. But now it feels like I've messed up, and I don't know how to get back in his good graces, aside from leaving him alone. And that's really painful for me.

It also feels like I was "bad." I know I have the whole "good girl" thing from childhood, where I had to follow the rules (in general and people's individual rules) in order to be loved and accepted. And my mom gave me the message that annoying (or "irritating," to use his word) someone is one of the worst things. I did tell Dr. T that earlier this week, and he seemed to get it. Maybe?

So even now, when I feel I broke the rules, it's like, "Well, there goes the love and support." It feels like it's my fault because I wasn't perfect. Like, I ruined something else. When I know much of this is about Dr. T's weaknesses and personal/therapeutic boundaries (and also that he can't be my parent).

Boy do I (still) relate to that "good girl" thing. Big time. Even at work still, when I call a member about their email they sent and they start yelling at me my immediate go-to inner response is "Oh no I'm in trouble" and I feel myself start to cry. Most times anymore I can stop it before I start crying but every now & then I still get a little teary. The "Oh no I'm in trouble, it's all my fault, they don't love me anymore, I'm not good enough" has nothing to do with the stranger on the phone of course but the inside reaction is there nonetheless, little Artie being afraid of the same thing - loss of love and support. It's huge. (I think now in retrospect, going on 6 months out from stopping therapy, I'm starting to understand that maybe I just hit the end of L's capacity for abandonment/relationship work when her response became "I'm not your mother or grandmother" "stop making this about me" and "I don't work that way.")

ChickenNoodleSoup · May 28, 2022 at 10:54 AM

I wished I had somebody in my life that I could just vent to and hug right now... my partner yells at me constantly. He blames me for him getting angry and being depressed all the time. Yesterday, I was drunk and talked back to some of his accusations. Today, I'm being told I'm an evil being deserving of bullying and physical violence. If I didn't depend on him to have a decent life, I'd probably leave.

WarmFuzzySocks · May 28, 2022 at 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectricManatee

I'm knitting some fingerless gloves to give to ToddlerManatee's preschool teachers. I must really like them to deal with all these tiny finger tubes...

Handknit fingerless gloves are some of my favorite things. What a lovely gift.

LonesomeTonight · May 28, 2022 at 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChickenNoodleSoup

I wished I had somebody in my life that I could just vent to and hug right now... my partner yells at me constantly. He blames me for him getting angry and being depressed all the time. Yesterday, I was drunk and talked back to some of his accusations. Today, I'm being told I'm an evil being deserving of bullying and physical violence. If I didn't depend on him to have a decent life, I'd probably leave.

Hugs, CNS, I'm really sorry. Whatever you said to him, you certainly don't deserve to be told what he said to you.

LonesomeTonight · May 28, 2022 at 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtieTheSequal

Boy do I (still) relate to that "good girl" thing. Big time. Even at work still, when I call a member about their email they sent and they start yelling at me my immediate go-to inner response is "Oh no I'm in trouble" and I feel myself start to cry. Most times anymore I can stop it before I start crying but every now & then I still get a little teary. The "Oh no I'm in trouble, it's all my fault, they don't love me anymore, I'm not good enough" has nothing to do with the stranger on the phone of course but the inside reaction is there nonetheless, little Artie being afraid of the same thing - loss of love and support. It's huge. (I think now in retrospect, going on 6 months out from stopping therapy, I'm starting to understand that maybe I just hit the end of L's capacity for abandonment/relationship work when her response became "I'm not your mother or grandmother" "stop making this about me" and "I don't work that way.")

Hugs, Artie. I'm sorry you deal with this, too, and that it affects you at work. My most recent non-T Good Girl reaction was when I was picking up a prescription for H at the CVS drive-thru. I'd only used it once before. There's a little drawer where I had to put my ID (pain meds) and payment. I put it there, the pharmacy tech didn't do anything for a minute, so I started to push the drawer in, thinking maybe I needed to do that. She said "Please don't do that" in a rather harsh tone, and I said, "I'm sorry, I didn't know." I felt bad about it the whole ride home. Told Dr. T about it as an example.

And it sounds like it was the right time to stop with L when she was saying those things. Ex-T once said, "I can't be your mother or your friend," and it was incredibly painful. I know Dr. T doesn't work in that modality either, but I'm thankful he hasn't said something like that (just other harsh things instead!)

LonesomeTonight · May 28, 2022 at 02:05 PM

I asked Dr. T if he had any openings for 30 minutes virtual tomorrow (he works a few hours on Sundays, all virtual), fully expecting him to say no. To my surprise, he offered me a 9 am. I figure I'm trying to do things in his preferred way, session rather than email. Hoping it helps some (and doesn't make it worse!). I'm going to a concert tomorrow night, so I'm hoping we can talk a few things through, and I can feel a bit better before I go. And if it goes poorly, well, then the concert will hopefully help me feel better!

ArtieTheSequal · May 28, 2022 at 04:33 PM

I hope tomorrow's half session goes well and that you have fun at the concert, LT!

ArtieTheSequal · May 28, 2022 at 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChickenNoodleSoup

I wished I had somebody in my life that I could just vent to and hug right now... my partner yells at me constantly. He blames me for him getting angry and being depressed all the time. Yesterday, I was drunk and talked back to some of his accusations. Today, I'm being told I'm an evil being deserving of bullying and physical violence. If I didn't depend on him to have a decent life, I'd probably leave.

Hugs if wanted, CNS. I agree with LT you don't deserve any of those things he said.

ArtieTheSequal · May 28, 2022 at 04:36 PM

Making smaller ones now too, and I think I like these better than the bigger ones:

LonesomeTonight · May 28, 2022 at 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtieTheSequal

I hope tomorrow's half session goes well and that you have fun at the concert, LT!

Thanks, Artie! And I like the star keychains!

atisketatasket · May 28, 2022 at 08:11 PM

Finally my sister is here and it feels so much better to have someone else in the house. I feel like I can focus on something besides how miserable I am with grief.

We’re starting the Great Clean-out of the house tomorrow, though, and that’s going to be very tough.

LonesomeTonight · May 28, 2022 at 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

Finally my sister is here and it feels so much better to have someone else in the house. I feel like I can focus on something besides how miserable I am with grief.

We’re starting the Great Clean-out of the house tomorrow, though, and that’s going to be very tough.

I'm glad you have some support there. I was wondering how you were doing. Hugs, if wanted.

stopdog · May 28, 2022 at 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

Finally my sister is here and it feels so much better to have someone else in the house. I feel like I can focus on something besides how miserable I am with grief.

We’re starting the Great Clean-out of the house tomorrow, though, and that’s going to be very tough.

It will be tough and sad and awful and funny and sad again. When cleaning out my mother's stuff - we were crying and we kept finding candles -she must have had 200 of them (their electricity went out every so often) - so it got to where finding candles would have us laughing. It isn't a direct course - grief is all over the board.

MobiusPsyche · May 29, 2022 at 06:47 AM

I'm glad your sister is there to help, ATAT.

I never went through my mother's house. She lived in Texas and I had already been away for almost six weeks at that point, maybe longer? I was way past overwhelmed and my imagination could not grasp anything I might find that would make the whole enterprise worthwhile.

I did look for old photos but couldn't find any. I took her wedding ring set from the jewelry box, gave all the food in the house to her friend, and the realtor arranged for a company to come in and sell or donate the rest. Oh, I did ship a lamp to her boyfriend's sister. I shipped home 3 afghans my great aunts had made for the family in the 1970s and a few small things. It's been 3.5 years and I can't say I regret my decision.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

LonesomeTonight · May 29, 2022 at 01:39 PM

I posted the writeup of this morning's Dr. T session here.

LonesomeTonight · May 29, 2022 at 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MobiusPsyche

If you're projecting, Comrade, then you're in good company!

I feel all kinds of frustrated with LT's therapist and want to give him a good firm shaking too knock some sense into him. (I would say a good talking-to, except I'm not sure that would be a effective.)

LT, what you're getting from therapy with him is a band-aid at best. Plus, the relationship stuff that you could be working on, that is for some therapists the meat of therapy, is being ignored. You're even being put off when you bring it up. I think that, with a skilled therapist who works with and through the relationship stuff, you could make so much more progress.

I went to therapy for years and only focused on managing my symptoms and dealing with crises as they came up. It wasn't until I truly opened up and started this type of relational therapy that I made real progress in improving my depression. It took about 2 years, but after that my depression was so much better that I would say it was almost gone. I had suffered from severe depression for more than 20 years at that point (I held my demanding job, barely, but had no personal life).

You should make the decision that is right for you. Don't do anything based on some randos on the Interwebz. I'm just sharing my story because it might be relevant.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

Thanks, MP. You make some good points here. And I appreciate you sharing your experiences.

I have some thinking to do, I suppose. I do wonder what I could accomplish with a different sort of T (and have investigated some before, including having a 15-minute consult with one maybe a year and a half ago). I want to stay with him at least for some stretch of time longer while we figure some things out with my D.

But I don't know...things had felt really good, helpful, and supportive for a long stretch there, so it wasn't like I had reason to think about leaving really. I'm not sure what's going on right now.

I was also so focused on "let me get through the pandemic with Dr. T, then I'll think about where to go from here," not expecting the pandemic to stretch on for so long.... So it's not like I've been thinking so much about what else I might want/need from therapy. Maybe now is the time to start doing that?

WarmFuzzySocks · May 29, 2022 at 02:13 PM

I'm glad you have company and support, @@, and that you're not in the Great Clean-out alone.

ElectricManatee · May 29, 2022 at 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtieTheSequal

I'd love to see a pic when they're done, I never could get the hang of knitting and admire the heck outta those who can do it!

eta: how DO you keep the yarn on the needles without hooks?

If you ever want to learn, Very Pink Knits on YouTube is the place to go.

ArtieTheSequal · May 29, 2022 at 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectricManatee

If you ever want to learn, Very Pink Knits on YouTube is the place to go.

Thanks, I'll check it out. My sister bought each of us a set of bamboo knitting needs several years ago when we both wanted to learn and neither of us got anywhere with it - I started a scarf and dropped so many stitches it would fall apart very quickly I'm sure even if I finished it off where it is and used it for a place mat or something. I may dig it out and try again after watching this.

eta: just watched the first part. I LOVE how it says skills required: none. that's my speed for sure

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Couch 237: Social Rules

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ArtieTheSequal Writing my way through... Member Since Feb 2020 Location: In the desert Posts: 7,232 (SuperPoster!) 4 5,760 hugs given	May 28, 2022 at 04:33 PM #468 I hope tomorrow's half session goes well and that you have fun at the concert, LT!

LonesomeTonight Always in This Twilight Member Since Feb 2015 Location: US Posts: 20,744 (SuperPoster!) 9 74.9k hugs given	May 29, 2022 at 01:39 PM #476 I posted the writeup of this morning's Dr. T session here.

WarmFuzzySocks Magnet Member Since Jun 2017 Location: in the garden Posts: 2,308 6 15.5k hugs given	May 29, 2022 at 02:13 PM #478 I'm glad you have company and support, @@, and that you're not in the Great Clean-out alone. __________________ Since you cannot do good to all, you are to pay special attention to those who, by accidents of time, or place, or circumstance, are brought into closer connection with you. (St. Augustine)