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Default Apr 23, 2022 at 11:25 AM
  #1
My SO (now separated) and I tried counselling about a year prior to my moving out of the home we shared with our two little ones.

Reflecting on that particular counselling experience is unsettling because of the associated feelings of utter uselessness and failure. I managed to make our T angry to the point of yelling at me. All through the 9 months of therapy I felt unhappy with how things were being conducted. Its was a time of personal upheaval for me within both marriage and between my mother and I, so I wasn't in a great place. However I still haven't reconciled my feelings re the sessions. I'd greatly appreciate any perspective you'd care to offer.

My SO arranged the online counselling out of desperation, in the hope of finding a way through the impasse we’d reached. I had previously tried individual therapy and was happy to have someone mediate for us. The sessions were OK yet as time went on my frustration grew. I began to suspect a bias in favour my SO. She was very frustrated, and was able to articulate those frustrations succinctly. On my part I had either spent a lot of time actively avoiding subjects or had never seriously considered them and this was reflected in my responses. I could be vague at times.

I felt the T had a sensitivity to my partner that wasn’t apparent in my exchanges with her. She would often ask my SO to expand upon ideas - I was NEVER, not even once in 9 months, encouraged to explore anything I brought to the sessions. She would express solidarity regarding various ideas (for example my SO was unable to contemplate sex whilst things were difficulty between us - the T responded by saying: ‘I can completely understand that’). Most distracting for me was the feeling that nothing I brought was of value. The only time I was asked for my opinion was in response to something from my SO. This continued and I struggled with it until I consciously initiated one session with something I felt very strongly about - I forget now what it was. In response the T acknowledged me then immediately asked my SO if she had anything else to bring!

This was probably the moment my faith in the T and the sessions plummeted. It was also the moment I decided that I wasn’t imagining things, I honestly felt there was more to this. I felt utterly sidelined and, as I mentioned, as though nothing I brought was of value. I couldn’t go on feeling this way and wanted to raise the issue. The following session I, as gently as possible, gave voice to my concerns. I referenced the prior week’s experience and disclosed that I was feeling unsettled.

Without missing a beat the T, now with raised voice and barely concealed irritation shouted: ‘Are you calling me unprofessional…ARE YOU CALLING ME UNPROFESSIONAL!!?’.

I was mortified and had no response prepared. My SO was silent but clearly upset.
The following week the T suggested a kind of reset and noted that ‘We all make mistakes’. However, nothing changed over the following sessions. Everything I have noted above was still in effect. Ultimately I raised my concerns again, this time somewhat more directly and confessed that I might be unable to continue because this had now become a question of trust. A short time later we had our final session.

I have wrestled with the memory ever since.
I feel I let myself and my SO down.
I have questioned whether I was being too sensitive. I regret giving voice to my concerns.

My SO subsequently conceded the sessions felt more like individual therapy rather than us working together - to a degree this validated my experience. Yet I’m haunted by, not only the fact of bringing a T to the point of anger, but also that I may have utterly misjudged the sessions themselves.

I’m aware that counselling comes in many flavours, theories, etc.
I know very well that Ts are not robots but human beings.
I must also allow for the fact that at the time I was not in a good place, I have my own issues and can quickly feel isolated if my needs are not being met.

Yet, I have long regarded therapy as a ‘safe’ space. Our T reassured us that we could bring whatever we wanted to explore. Even if I had totally misjudged the situation, giving-in to my own personal insecurities, if someone raises a concern, however bizarre, is that not worthy of consideration? It may offer a window onto some underlying issue between the couple, after all.

I’m still like WTF happened there.
So I ask you, WTF just happened?

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Default Apr 23, 2022 at 12:04 PM
  #2
I was thinking it sounded a lot like individual therapy between the T when I read the first part of your post. It took me so long to find a T that I felt ok with, it seems near impossible that one T could work well with 2 people in the same session!

I think wtf happened there is pretty much as you said...the T was on your partner's 'side', for whatever reason. So the therapy couldn't be helpful, she wasn't mediating, it sounds like she was punishing you for not being who your SO wanted you to be.

Of course your feelings are valid, the things you tried to bring up in sessions were very important, it just really sucks that you didn't have a very good therapist to treat you both equally.

The end of any relationship can make you feel like you failed, but it doesn't sound like you did.

The fact you wrote this post shows how much you cared and tried to make it work. Honestly, it really does sound like the T was unprofessional, seeing as they got so mad and shouted about it.
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Default Apr 23, 2022 at 12:20 PM
  #3
Only you, your SO and T knows what truly went on. But based upon what you wrote, it does seem like the T was siding with your SO. Maybe you were sensitive, but that's not a bad thing. And you are allowed to bring up your observations without being made to feel "bad" or "wrong". Plus you say your SO agreed with you. Don't doubt your gut/wise mind. It's usually right.

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Default Apr 23, 2022 at 01:26 PM
  #4
Scarlet makes a really great point there. It's taken me a lot of work in therapy to realise that being s nsitive is ok. It's actually a really great asset... You just need to find people to have in your life who recognise that and Who cherish your sensitive side. If that makes sense! As for what went on, I agree that it sounds that your T took your SOs side on this occasion, and didn't act too professionally!
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Default Apr 23, 2022 at 01:50 PM
  #5
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Originally Posted by Lostislost View Post
I was thinking it sounded a lot like individual therapy between the T when I read the first part of your post. It took me so long to find a T that I felt ok with, it seems near impossible that one T could work well with 2 people in the same session!

I think wtf happened there is pretty much as you said...the T was on your partner's 'side', for whatever reason. So the therapy couldn't be helpful, she wasn't mediating, it sounds like she was punishing you for not being who your SO wanted you to be.

Of course your feelings are valid, the things you tried to bring up in sessions were very important, it just really sucks that you didn't have a very good therapist to treat you both equally.

The end of any relationship can make you feel like you failed, but it doesn't sound like you did.

Hi Lost and thank you

It's only now that I reread my own thoughts that I'm struck by the irony of having a Therapist yell at you: 'Are you accusing me of being unprofessional!'

Rather like when someone screams at you: 'I'M. NOT. SHOUTING!!'.

I'll just add that we were with a very reputable British therapy institution, the name of whom is synonymous with couples therapy.
I don't know what was going on for the therapist at that time - perhaps on some level the T simply found me challenging/objectionable or was having a particularly bad day - but I was left feeling two things:

a. Appalled at how it was handled within the context of a therapeutic setting

b. Weak, useless and far worse than when we entered into it

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Default Apr 23, 2022 at 01:55 PM
  #6
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Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel View Post
Only you, your SO and T knows what truly went on. But based upon what you wrote, it does seem like the T was siding with your SO. Maybe you were sensitive, but that's not a bad thing. And you are allowed to bring up your observations without being made to feel "bad" or "wrong". Plus you say your SO agreed with you. Don't doubt your gut/wise mind. It's usually right.

Thank you. I was reminded by that very T, objectivity/truth does not exist...

I greatly appreciate your perspective. As I mentioned, I continue to be troubled by what transpired that day. I know my SO was incredulous but tended to see it as my failing which is why I began to doubt my own sanity: Had I imagined everything? That doubt by itself f*cked with me no end.

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Default May 06, 2022 at 05:02 AM
  #7
Couples therapy is very complex and completely different to individual therapy. In couples therapy, the "relationship" is treated as the client and when there's a bias towards one person, which inevitably happens from time to time, an experienced couples therapist will bring it back. It doesn't sound as though she was trained specifically in couples work, what was her qualification?

Losing it like that so quickly, is a rookie error. Sounds like she took against you and wasn't aware of, or working with, her own unconscious feelings. Not your fault at all.

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Default May 07, 2022 at 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by TeaVicar? View Post
Couples therapy is very complex and completely different to individual therapy. In couples therapy, the "relationship" is treated as the client and when there's a bias towards one person, which inevitably happens from time to time, an experienced couples therapist will bring it back. It doesn't sound as though she was trained specifically in couples work, what was her qualification?

Losing it like that so quickly, is a rookie error. Sounds like she took against you and wasn't aware of, or working with, her own unconscious feelings. Not your fault at all.

Hi Teavicar
thank you for this perspective.
I have no idea what the experience or qualification of the T was.
All I can say is that we were signed up with (one of the) more prominent British couple's therapy agencies. Confidence in their service is, I think, implied in their reputation and 'brand'.

With hindsight the immediate response of the T, to some degree, validated my instincts re what was happening. She didn't miss a beat. The situation, as they say, escalated rather quickly.


Upon reflection I did wonder whether my experience with individual counselling had too heavily influenced my expectations of couples therapy. Perhaps it did. All the same, the T's reaction was questionable and concerning imo.

Again thank you for this perspective.

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Default May 09, 2022 at 11:23 PM
  #9
Sounds like an awful experience. It’s personal in that it happened to you, but not personal in that it sounds like this is almost entirely about the therapist’s incompetence. When you are doing your best to be earnest in couples therapy and trying not to be defensive etc you are just a sitting duck for being hurt by an incompetent or unethical therapist. It’s especially horrendous because they can take someone’s side against you.

Think about it: if you’re in solo therapy and you encounter a therapist who isn’t that empathic, you can leave. Also it would be rare to encounter a therapist in individual therapy who says something like, “I can see your mom’s point, you were a bad child!”

In couples therapy that happens All. The. Time.
And if you want to leave couples therapy as your relationship is crumbling it’s as though you’re not putting in a good faith effort, especially if your partner doesn’t see it the same way.

Anyway. I think wtf happened is that the therapist sucked and made you feel like your point of view wasn’t valid. I don’t find it so surprising. Bad therapists are a dime a dozen.
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Default May 10, 2022 at 06:29 AM
  #10
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Originally Posted by Favorite Jeans View Post
Sounds like an awful experience. It’s personal in that it happened to you, but not personal in that it sounds like this is almost entirely about the therapist’s incompetence.

Hello Jeans. Thank you for this. I'd like to respond to a couple of things.

Someone in an earlier reply stated that only myself, former-partner and the T truly know what happened that day. This is true. However, being able to share this experience now, albeit anonimously/on the web, has been a huge relief. I badly needed another perspective on things.


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When you are doing your best to be earnest in couples therapy and trying not to be defensive etc you are just a sitting duck for being hurt by an incompetent or unethical therapist.

Here's what complicated things furrther.
During therapy we share our vulnerabilities. We're open and acutely sensitive.
The T has an implied status. Like cops whose authority is implied, a T (at least for myself) has an implied trust/professionalism.

During the course of our sessions it seemed the T and my SO were quite similar people. My partner has a perspective which was shared by the T, she is articulate and thoughtful, her responses were generally considered - she got alot of, subtle, positive reinforcement, lacking, as I saw it, in our own interactions.

Because of the rep the institution had, I assumed our T was experienced. I now question that asumption. I do wonder whether she was recently qualified or, as previously suggested, new to couple's therapy. The sudden, explosive response, the (perhaps) unconcious emphasis shown to my partner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Favorite Jeans View Post
Think about it: if you’re in solo therapy and you encounter a therapist who isn’t that empathic, you can leave. Also it would be rare to encounter a therapist in individual therapy who says something like, “I can see your mom’s point, you were a bad child!”

In couples therapy that happens All. The. Time.
And if you want to leave couples therapy as your relationship is crumbling it’s as though you’re not putting in a good faith effort, especially if your partner doesn’t see it the same way.

Anyway. I think wtf happened is that the therapist sucked and made you feel like your point of view wasn’t valid. I don’t find it so surprising. Bad therapists are a dime a dozen.

What an utterly depressing thought. I'm not challenging what you say, it's just very, very sad if true.

As you mention, in couple's therapy, if something re the Therapist seems off, you're in a bit of a bind. Throughout the whole thing I questioned MYSELF rather than the T's method. Then had my concerns waved away only to return. And, because of this implied trust/professionalism PLUS not wanting to let your partner down, it's incredibly difficult to challenge anything.

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Default May 13, 2022 at 07:26 AM
  #11
Yeah. I’m so sorry that happened to you. I get it because a very similar thing happened to me. I later understood it as not only about the therapist’s incompetence but as part of a troubling dynamic of cruelty in the relationship.

It has taken me a long, long time to recover from it. A large part of what was difficult was making myself vulnerable to this ostensibly impartial person and having her treat me so badly while validating my partner’s every breath. Even when it finally came to light that my partner had been having an affair and gaslighting me when I asked what was going on (“IDK FJ maybe YOU want to open up the relationship so you’re accusing ME of having an affair?”) the therapist’s first response was to remark how much it must have weighed on her to keep a secret like that.

It was such profound, profound mind****ery. And I suspect it happens a lot. It’s a kind of abuse for which we don’t really have a term yet.
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Default May 13, 2022 at 12:00 PM
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Hi Teavicar
thank you for this perspective.
I have no idea what the experience or qualification of the T was.
All I can say is that we were signed up with (one of the) more prominent British couple's therapy agencies. Confidence in their service is, I think, implied in their reputation and 'brand'.
If it was Relate, I wouldn't be surprised. I don't think the training is that good.

She obviously had unconscious bias / counter transference issues but wasn't self aware enough to be able to work with them.

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Default May 13, 2022 at 12:37 PM
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If it was Relate, I wouldn't be surprised. I don't think the training is that good.

She obviously had unconscious bias / counter transference issues but wasn't self aware enough to be able to work with them.
Had to quickly Google 'Counter Transference' but very interesting, Vicar. Thank you again. Unconcious Bias, too.

Her reaction to my SO saying she couldn't contemplate sex whilst things remained as they were was, with hindsight, a dead giveaway.

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Default May 13, 2022 at 02:50 PM
  #14
Obviously, I don't know any information about how things were in your relationship at that time but, as a basic principle, the idea that one partner does not want sex whilst things are disrupted or disconnected in some way is entirely understandable. It seems appropriate to me that the therapist would have normalised your partner's feeling around that. What was it about that exchange that you found particularly disturbing?
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Default May 13, 2022 at 04:21 PM
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... as a basic principle, the idea that one partner does not want sex whilst things are disrupted or disconnected in some way is entirely understandable. It seems appropriate to me that the therapist would have normalised your partner's feeling around that. What was it about that exchange that you found particularly disturbing?

A very good point.
It came late in the therapy, perhaps just prior to the shouting. Sex at this point was a difficult subject. The exchange seemed to underscore my feelings of isolation within the sessions. My own response was ignored. The focus shifted to my SO who was asked to expand on her feelings around the subject. Then it was dropped and we moved on. I didn't, at that time, feel I could assert my opinion without being invited to. An opportunity to explore an area of importance was lost in favour, it seemed to me, of validating only my SOs feelings.

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Default May 13, 2022 at 05:09 PM
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Were you able to say that you only felt able to share if you were explicitly asked to do so? That seems like an important issue in the therapy. If you didn't feel able to proactively share your feelings or thoughts, you needed to at least be able to talk about your experience of being unable to share. Otherwise, your SO and/or therapist are put in the position of mind reader and that will never go well.

I don't like couples therapy and I definitely didn't have a good experience with Relate so I can imagine that your therapy wasn't great.
However, I also know from my individual therapy that it is comfortable to blame the therapist, project your stuff onto them, rather than explore your personal responsibility and internal experiences.
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Default May 13, 2022 at 09:53 PM
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Obviously, I don't know any information about how things were in your relationship at that time but, as a basic principle, the idea that one partner does not want sex whilst things are disrupted or disconnected in some way is entirely understandable. It seems appropriate to me that the therapist would have normalised your partner's feeling around that. What was it about that exchange that you found particularly disturbing?
For sure. But it seems pretty basic to say, “if I’m hearing you it sounds like partner A is saying that they don’t want sex while feeling disconnected and partner B is saying that they miss the sexual connection y’all had as a couple. That sounds difficult FOR BOTH OF YOU..”

As I understood it, the issue wasn’t that OM could not understand why on earth SO felt as she did but rather was shamed for not experiencing things in that exact way. Whatever feeling you’re having is okay and can be normalized.
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Default May 14, 2022 at 01:42 AM
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As I understood it, the issue wasn’t that OM could not understand why on earth SO felt as she did but rather was shamed for not experiencing things in that exact way. Whatever feeling you’re having is okay and can be normalized.

This might be close to how I perceived it. It was jarring to have been asked for an opinion only for it to be left hanging there in the room, without so much as a nod of acknowledgement. I wanted to say more but the discussion moved on very quickly.


FWIW I'm happy to entertain the notion that I was projecting personal expectations onto the session or T.

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Default May 14, 2022 at 01:48 AM
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Were you able to say that you only felt able to share if you were explicitly asked to do so? That seems like an important issue in the therapy.
Expressing this exact sentiment led directly to the therapist's over reaction as outlined at the start of this thread.

Quote:
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I don't like couples therapy and I definitely didn't have a good experience with Relate so I can imagine that your therapy wasn't great.
However, I also know from my individual therapy that it is comfortable to blame the therapist, project your stuff onto them, rather than explore your personal responsibility and internal experiences.
Thank you for this. I didn't post my experience with the intention of merely having anxiety over it justified, nor to gain sympathy. I don't mind being challenged to reconsider my initial responses.

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Default May 14, 2022 at 11:15 AM
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Expressing this exact sentiment led directly to the therapist's over reaction as outlined at the start of this thread.


Thank you for this. I didn't post my experience with the intention of merely having anxiety over it justified, nor to gain sympathy. I don't mind being challenged to reconsider my initial responses.
In general, this openness to many viewpoints, to having one’s blind spots pointed out and to being challenged is a lovely quality. However it is exactly this, the unwillingness to just let ego take over and stomp out, that leaves a person extremely vulnerable to an incompetent or abusive therapist, particularly in a couple’s therapy situation.

Many people who do not operate this way (including some therapists unfortunately) interpret this openness as a de facto admission of guilt. And many women therapists do not question or hide the extent to which they identify with the woman/femme partner (in a relationship where that gender dynamic is present).

I know that I’m viewing your experience through the lens of my own which can be distorting. But that kind of couples therapist is so common as to be a stereotype. I don’t think your perceptions are off.
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