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Brown Owl 2
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Default May 22, 2022 at 09:57 AM
  #1
I’m trying therapy again. In previous therapy I noticed that were occasionally moments where I kind of withdrew or receded slightly away from the T. Some unremarked on rupture caused it. Sometimes the rupture triggered feelings of trauma. I think they were probably minor moments of a sort of dissociation. I think it would be beneficial if I could talk to the T about it, in the moment when it happens. I tried with the last T, but it was disasterous. I wonder if others have positive experiences of talking to their Ts in the moment when something like that happens? I had a moment like this last week with my newish T. It was like I experienced a loss of a sense of safety. If I had been able to discuss it I would have found it helpful if she had given me reassurance/ repaired the relationship with me. I don’t know if she would have given it or tried to repair the relationship. The problem with my last T was that when we discussed ruptures her response was to link everything back to my childhood, instead of doing anything to repair our relationship.

Any thoughts? Any experiences of anything similar?
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Default May 22, 2022 at 12:12 PM
  #2
I experience this ..usually if T says something 'wrong' or I feel something I don't feel comfortable talking about. Or if there's something I really want to say but can't get he words out. I have yet to figure out how to bring it up, my T doesn't seem to be able to recognise when it's happening either.
Makes me feel extra lonely and like I'm not good enough and/or wasting my time there.

Sorry no advice, just wanted to let you know I experience it too.
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Default May 22, 2022 at 01:34 PM
  #3
This used to happen a lot with my T. And it really eroded the relationship. I would bring it up to him and it always felt like he glossed over his part in whatever it was that had made me withdraw. Sometimes he'd deny having done anything "wrong," sometimes he offered a cursory apology before focusing on my childhood and the "original" hurt. And it just felt so invalidating. It actually became a re-enactment between us that really got tangled up in my childhood trauma. Like, here was this person who was really important to me, and it also felt like he had more power, and he hurt me, and when I protested, he denied it. And so my only option if I wanted to preserve the relationship was to flip to becoming conciliatory and ingratiating and trying to get HIM to forgive me, which I always did, because I didn't want to lose him. A total re-enactment in the here-and-now. It was so, so painful.

It took a lot of hard work and willingness on both of our parts to get us out of this recurring re-enactment. I had to try multiple times to get him to hear me, and we had some pretty rough sessions, and nearly terminated. But then he sought consultation, and I sought consultation. I ultimately said to him that I needed him to own his part, and I needed him to stay there, until such time as the hurt subsided enough for me to be willing to look at my childhood. He said he would own his part, but only his part. And I thought to myself, here we go again. He will think he is owning his part, and I will disagree. He will think his part is 1%, and I'll be left with all the rest. So I asked him, "Who gets to decide how much is yours?" And he said that I did, and that I got to decide when to move on. And that's when I knew that things had truly shifted.

Now my T actually recognizes himself when it happens, when I pull back, and he asks me, "What just happened?" And I feel safe enough to tell him. And he apologizes and he stays with me in my pain until the pain has subsided. And only when I'm ready do we connect it to other things and do therapy around it. I'm not sure I have any good advice, except to be very clear with your T that you are willing to look at the past and do therapy around that, but only when the rupture has been adequately healed, and you feel safe enough, and that only you can say when that is. Hopefully they will respect that.

Last edited by Oliviab; May 22, 2022 at 01:56 PM..
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Default May 22, 2022 at 03:48 PM
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostislost View Post
I experience this ..usually if T says something 'wrong' or I feel something I don't feel comfortable talking about. Or if there's something I really want to say but can't get he words out. I have yet to figure out how to bring it up, my T doesn't seem to be able to recognise when it's happening either.
Makes me feel extra lonely and like I'm not good enough and/or wasting my time there.

Sorry no advice, just wanted to let you know I experience it too.
Thanks for sharing.
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Default May 22, 2022 at 03:56 PM
  #5
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Originally Posted by Oliviab View Post
This used to happen a lot with my T. And it really eroded the relationship. I would bring it up to him and it always felt like he glossed over his part in whatever it was that had made me withdraw. Sometimes he'd deny having done anything "wrong," sometimes he offered a cursory apology before focusing on my childhood and the "original" hurt. And it just felt so invalidating. It actually became a re-enactment between us that really got tangled up in my childhood trauma. Like, here was this person who was really important to me, and it also felt like he had more power, and he hurt me, and when I protested, he denied it. And so my only option if I wanted to preserve the relationship was to flip to becoming conciliatory and ingratiating and trying to get HIM to forgive me, which I always did, because I didn't want to lose him. A total re-enactment in the here-and-now. It was so, so painful.

It took a lot of hard work and willingness on both of our parts to get us out of this recurring re-enactment. I had to try multiple times to get him to hear me, and we had some pretty rough sessions, and nearly terminated. But then he sought consultation, and I sought consultation. I ultimately said to him that I needed him to own his part, and I needed him to stay there, until such time as the hurt subsided enough for me to be willing to look at my childhood. He said he would own his part, but only his part. And I thought to myself, here we go again. He will think he is owning his part, and I will disagree. He will think his part is 1%, and I'll be left with all the rest. So I asked him, "Who gets to decide how much is yours?" And he said that I did, and that I got to decide when to move on. And that's when I knew that things had truly shifted.

Now my T actually recognizes himself when it happens, when I pull back, and he asks me, "What just happened?" And I feel safe enough to tell him. And he apologizes and he stays with me in my pain until the pain has subsided. And only when I'm ready do we connect it to other things and do therapy around it. I'm not sure I have any good advice, except to be very clear with your T that you are willing to look at the past and do therapy around that, but only when the rupture has been adequately healed, and you feel safe enough, and that only you can say when that is. Hopefully they will respect that.
Your description sounds really really similar to my experience with my old T, especially your description of how your T used to act. It seemed to me that her analytical response of linking everything to my childhood was a kind of defence. That sounds great how he responds now.
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Default Aug 24, 2022 at 10:48 AM
  #6
Just came across this thread accidentally when looking for another. Know it is an old thread but I find this is so interesting. I do think this type of 'moment to moment mindfulness' could be so helpful in therapy and could really see how working on this would help in everyday relationships. e.g the other day I had friends over. I was enjoying myself but at some point I withdrew. I only realised because my husband mentioned afterwards that I seemed to be having fun at the start but then because quieter and more distant...

I imagine lots of therapists utilize this approach and would love to explore it more myself with my therapist. I do think it might have to be therapist led though. I myself don't always notice when I pull away until a few minutes after or even once the session is done. Sometimes my therapist will say 'Where were you?' I have always been confused by this as I go to my thinking mind and try to think about what I was thinking....maybe I need to start looking at what I am feeling in those moments.

Has anyone done this type of work in their therapy and found it very helpful? I also imagine it requires the therapist to have a great level of self-awareness and interception (which they should do already IMO)
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Default Aug 25, 2022 at 10:06 AM
  #7
I think that Gestalt therapy is very much based on this. I had about 8 sessions with a Gestalt therapist and that’s how she was aiming to work. There’s also something called Core Process therapy, I think that aims to do that too. I’m trying to do this with my current person centred therapist.
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Default Aug 25, 2022 at 07:42 PM
  #8
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Originally Posted by Brown Owl 2 View Post
I think that Gestalt therapy is very much based on this. I had about 8 sessions with a Gestalt therapist and that’s how she was aiming to work. There’s also something called Core Process therapy, I think that aims to do that too. I’m trying to do this with my current person centred therapist.
Oh I didn’t realise this thanks for sharing I will have to look into them more. It feels like it is something that might be focusing on what is happening in our bodies or even our nervous systems during our interactions with others which surely can be helpful if we have tools to address things
That may need addressing
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Default Aug 25, 2022 at 08:46 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by Brown Owl 2 View Post
I think that Gestalt therapy is very much based on this. I had about 8 sessions with a Gestalt therapist and that’s how she was aiming to work. There’s also something called Core Process therapy, I think that aims to do that too. I’m trying to do this with my current person centred therapist.
Yeah, I don't totally understand Gestalt therapy but my T is influenced by Gestalt techniques (but not the empty chair, thank god!) and she is very tuned into my moment to moment experience in session. She doesn't always comment on what is happening for me, but I know she's watching everything. (It was a little creepy before I got used to it.) At various points in my therapy we have spent a decent amount of time talking about what is going on between us in that particular moment, and it has sometimes been revealing.
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Default Aug 25, 2022 at 09:44 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by ElectricManatee View Post
Yeah, I don't totally understand Gestalt therapy but my T is influenced by Gestalt techniques (but not the empty chair, thank god!) and she is very tuned into my moment to moment experience in session. She doesn't always comment on what is happening for me, but I know she's watching everything. (It was a little creepy before I got used to it.) At various points in my therapy we have spent a decent amount of time talking about what is going on between us in that particular moment, and it has sometimes been revealing.
My T 'seems' very present and like she is 'watching; me all the time to see what is going on for me but like you doesn't often comment on it. From time to time she will ask 'what do I feel?' or "where did I go?' but only occassionaly. I am not sure what good it is for her to watch me like this if she isn't going to comment so that I can learn something from it/ It seems helpful that your T does this
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