Driving past your therapist's house

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Originally Posted by Soupe du jour Hi Beth. I saw you reference this thread in the bipolar forum, so came here since this topic is one I can truly relate to from the past. I'd write more, but my time is limited and I type only 10% the speed on my phone compared to my laptop. And with many more typos. You driving past her house is far from unusual, in cases of transferance, which is what it clearly is. I did the same with my past psychiatrist. After all is said and done, you should not feel bad about this, unless a crime was committed, which wasn't. Yes, boudaries were broken, and I believe your therapist was at most fault. My suggestion is to quit her, after reading your detailed story. I also think there are needs you have that must be addressed and they are nothing to feel ashamed about at all! I truly feel for you since you've only recently had a horrible experience with a bad psychiatrist, and had to find new. At this time, you deserve a stable mental healthcare team. I realize that starting new therapeutic relationships, themselves, is a huge stress. Asking how often a potential new tdoc cancels is a legitimately good question. Hugs I feel I wrote too little above, but it's all I can now.

I'm so glad to have your input, Soupe. Thank you for it, despite your current typing limitations. "A stable mental healthcare team" - you said it! Since the agency moved to the new clinic some months back they must have had major admin changes because wow, their priorities sure have changed for the worse. I am calling today to make an appt. with another therapist. We'll see how it goes.

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Originally Posted by Lostislost I know everyone has given you all the good advice already, but I just wanted to say I have thought about driving past my Ts house, but I cant because it's on a small road that wouldn't really lead me anywhere. I've also almost sent him something to his home address, but decided against it because he lives with his wife and thought she might not feel comfortable with that. I asked him if he cared that people knew where he lived before and he said no. I definitely don't think it's weird to drive past their house though, for me it's just curiousity to see where and how he lives. And to feel closer of course.

It sounds like your therapist is in touch with the real world. Thank you for sharing your own experience. I appreciate it.

I've known people who got stalked.

One person (not a therapist) eventually got a gruesome "gift" at her door. Her stalker was someone who got obsessed with her, and when she didn't accept his interest, it got legitimately dark. Police was involved but not much was done until the gruesome gift.

I do understand attachment and idealising a therapist, and I believe many people wouldn't harm their therapist or want to scare them at all. I imagine many clients would be horrified to learn they'd scared their therapist.

All you need is one person to really scare you, however?

I've been online and physically stalked for a while by a harmful family member (thankfully it didn't become serious) and 3 or so years on, I had a full on panic reaction after my session, when I realised the client who arrived before me (for my session with my therapist) was also my therapist's client (session after me), and that she was sitting right outside the therapy room door. I'm not saying that client is wrong or did anything wrong, I'm saying I had an oversized reaction given my past experiences.

My therapist has been stalked by a client (I didn't ask details of stalking) who eventually left my therapist. I still remember how sad my therapist looked and sounded when she said "they left..."

The topic was very relevant in my therapy, and we didn't go into any unnecessary detail and focused on my desire for connection and how I wanted to know her boundaries so they could become "rules" that I would never break. She actually said they're not "rules", that boundaries can be flexible sometimes, and that we'd discuss if I ever made her uncomfortable.

I understand wanting connection, and unfortunately, we can't predict how anyone would react, no matter how well intentioned.

I understand wanting to be "around" a location tied to them, and I don't automatically think driving past their house (especially if they have a home office) is violating... it depends very much on the individual therapy relationship and the people involved.

I've wanted to hang around the clinic (there's a few waiting rooms, I woukdbt interact with my T or even see her) sometimes because it's associated with safety when going through a difficult time.

Some clinics where I live didn't mind people doing that pre-pandemic. I have also been told to spend time in the waiting room until I was grounded enough to leave while she welcomed the next client.

So I asked my T, she said no, and I respected that.

Some of my friends drop off stuff by where I live. If they came unannounced to visit, I would probably fine with that, even if I would be surprised.

If my parents or particular relatives did so or dropped off stuff though, I'd be scared. Was already afraid one time when they said they almost got plane tickets showed up to a place I was having a vacation at. Which some abusive parents do. Doesn't have to be fear though, my sister plain doesn't like unannounced things (calls, drop off, visit, whatever) in general.

I do hope that therapists could set and enforce boundaries in a non harmful way, (I remember reading a clinical book on IF a client keeps breaking a boundary repeatedly after the therapist set it and reminds them every time of the boundary and the mext consequence), and that hopefully they can communicate their boundary clearly the first time they're uncomfortable and that they'd presume good intentions in the client.

My therapist has set boundaries with me because an action of mine made her uncomfortable, and that meant it would hamper our work. I've also set a boundary with her about a particular use of my name which makes me uncomfortable.

I don't think people automatically know another's boundaries.

I've never driven by a T's house, although I only know where one of my former T's lives and it is in a completely different town. I do have her address and I send her Christmas cards every year. She does not send me one.

I haven't really given gifts to a T except for former T. I would make her handmade cards when she would go on vacation. And when she got sick with MS I made her a blanket. And when we stopped working together I sent her a little stuffed animal mouse that I also had that I would often bring to therapy with me. So we each have one. She accepted these things graciously. But probably because it was at the end of our time together.

I can see wanting to take care of your T when they are out sick and it would frustrate me that they accepted the gifts and then suddenly it's not okay, especially as they had given you gifts before. So that's kind of strange.

I don't think your T is up for doing the kind of work that you need, but that is just my two cents. You can certainly do whatever your heart and gut and mind tell you is the right thing to do.

I am sorry that your T hasn't been more caring and responsive to you during this long time of not seeing her. That would be very difficult for me as well.

Sending you hugs, if you want, Kit

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Originally Posted by Quietmind 2 ...I have also been told to spend time in the waiting room until I was grounded enough to leave while she welcomed the next client. So I asked my T, she said no, and I respected that. ...

I absolutely do not agree with your therapist about her decision. For a client to sit in the waiting room for say, 10 minutes, following a session in order to calm and ground is perfectly acceptable - and if the client is driving, it could be a matter of safety.

For the record I've been stalked by a man. It was 6 to 7 years ago. I was terrified. The way it ended was that a police officer telephoned me and told me they were holding the guy; he had been in the street, holding a hatchet, screaming that he was planning to kill me when they picked him up. After that he was told that if he was in the town where I live he would be arrested (he came from a city some ways away).

I lived for years afraid of him - it still leaves me edgy.

Bottom line though, I was in no way stalking my therapist.

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Originally Posted by SlumberKitty I've never driven by a T's house, although I only know where one of my former T's lives and it is in a completely different town. I do have her address and I send her Christmas cards every year. She does not send me one. I haven't really given gifts to a T except for former T. I would make her handmade cards when she would go on vacation. And when she got sick with MS I made her a blanket. And when we stopped working together I sent her a little stuffed animal mouse that I also had that I would often bring to therapy with me. So we each have one. She accepted these things graciously. But probably because it was at the end of our time together. I can see wanting to take care of your T when they are out sick and it would frustrate me that they accepted the gifts and then suddenly it's not okay, especially as they had given you gifts before. So that's kind of strange. I don't think your T is up for doing the kind of work that you need, but that is just my two cents. You can certainly do whatever your heart and gut and mind tell you is the right thing to do. I am sorry that your T hasn't been more caring and responsive to you during this long time of not seeing her. That would be very difficult for me as well. Sending you hugs, if you want, Kit

Thank you, Kit. I'll take that hug.

Thank you. I tried to discuss it with her, but she happened to be outside and saw me when I drove by (a 1 in 1000th chance IMO). The next session, the clinical director joined and they both told me my T lost her objectivity the moment she saw me drive by and couldn’t be a good therapist to me anymore. I wish I could’ve had the knowledge and understanding I do now to ask her where her objectivity was when she thought coming into my dorm room (all the while knowing I was in love with her, felt special to her, and wished we could be friends) was a good idea.

She saw you just driving? Not getting out, not stopping, not coming up to the door? I think it’s bizarre that she wouldn’t even talk to you why you were driving there. Sitting in your dorm and holding hands is fine but driving by isn’t. Hhmm

It all boils down to me believing that many therapists deliberately cultivate dependency in clients but make sure it’s on their terms.

Like supposedly patients have this special bond with them yet it bothers me that therapists don’t share their private phone numbers with clients. I suspect some clients would avoid driving by their house if they could occasionally call or text their therapist when they feel like driving by their house. And then therapists could violate boundaries but clients can’t? I’d be just as mortified with people showing up at my door unannounced as therapist showing up in my private space or declaring their love.

If therapists want their privacy (and they have rights for that) and don’t want to share their number, it’s all good. But then why send mixed messages to clients? What’s the agenda. It helps no one but a therapist. They want dependency yet strictly on their terms

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Originally Posted by justbreathe1994 Thank you. I tried to discuss it with her, but she happened to be outside and saw me when I drove by (a 1 in 1000th chance IMO). The next session, the clinical director joined and they both told me my T lost her objectivity the moment she saw me drive by and couldn’t be a good therapist to me anymore. I wish I could’ve had the knowledge and understanding I do now to ask her where her objectivity was when she thought coming into my dorm room (all the while knowing I was in love with her, felt special to her, and wished we could be friends) was a good idea.

WOW. I'm sorry that that therapist was a real loser. Please let yourself off the hook, sweetie. You did NOT commit a crime, not even a bad deed. You ended up getting - to put it bluntly - screwed over

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Originally Posted by divine1966 She saw you just driving? Not getting out, not stopping, not coming up to the door? I think it’s bizarre that she wouldn’t even talk to you why you were driving there. Sitting in your dorm and holding hands is fine but driving by isn’t. Hhmm It all boils down to me believing that many therapists deliberately cultivate dependency in clients but make sure it’s on their terms. Like supposedly patients have this special bond with them yet it bothers me that therapists don’t share their private phone numbers with clients. I suspect some clients would avoid driving by their house if they could occasionally call or text their therapist when they feel like driving by their house. And then therapists could violate boundaries but clients can’t? I’d be just as mortified with people showing up at my door unannounced as therapist showing up in my private space or declaring their love. If therapists want their privacy (and they have rights for that) and don’t want to share their number, it’s all good. But then why send mixed messages to clients? What’s the agenda. It helps no one but a therapist. They want dependency yet strictly on their terms

That power imbalance is why I am questioning the validity of therapy now. It can far too easily become a re-traumatization of childhood traumas, for those of us who struggle with those.

Valid points.

It doesn’t have to be about power unless therapist creates this kind of situation. Like you don’t feel that dentist has power imbalance.

I don’t necessarily think every therapist creates this imbalance or that therapy is invalid. I think it could be invalid when therapists take advantage (consciously or subconsciously) of clients who are in need of something.

And I think it’s weird that they are in caring profession yet could be so careless. Like if a t is sick, why couldn’t she let you know that she is very sick and will be gone and ask if you’d like to be referred. Why she plays this hide and seek making you guess

I am just rambling

hugs

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Originally Posted by divine1966 Valid points. It doesn’t have to be about power unless therapist creates this kind of situation. Like you don’t feel that dentist has power imbalance. I don’t necessarily think every therapist creates this imbalance or that therapy is invalid. I think it could be invalid when therapists take advantage (consciously or subconsciously) of clients who are in need of something. And I think it’s weird that they are in caring profession yet could be so careless. Like if a t is sick, why couldn’t she let you know that she is very sick and will be gone and ask if you’d like to be referred. Why she plays this hide and seek making you guess I am just rambling

Nope, your post makes sense all over the place. I agree with every point you made.

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Originally Posted by Fuzzybear hugs

Thank you, Fuzzy. Big gentle bear hugs to you, too

Yeah, I'm not saying you're stalking your therapist. I think your therapist communicated badly.

I was not clear enough on that important part (due to remembering frightening things, then other boundary stuff with another therapist) that your therapist wasn't clear, and she "went off" on you abruptly when she wasn't clear in the first place.

I also really don't like how some therapists have double standards. Eg, a client can't be late even for a serious reason but the therapist is repeatedly late. Had a big rupture with my therapist over it, and I also used other examples to illustrate the difference in standards.

As for grounding, I basically go out of the clinic altogether, and sit in a staircase until I'm grounded. I don't drive but have been too dissociative to take public transport back immediately.

Beth I’m sort of mad at your therapist, frankly. I’m sorry that she’s sick, it must be awful for her, but it doesn’t absolve her of her responsibility to you. And she has not held up her end of the bargain.

Here’s what it would look like to hold up her end of the bargain:

She’d tell you that she is going to be off for x months and will be in contact with you at x time about a possible return.

She thinks her colleague Y would be a great fit for you and is able to see you weekly and has agreed to cover in her absence. With your permission she will talk to said colleague and hand over your file. (Not that “other therapists are available”; she is specifically handing your care to someone trusted while she is on leave.)

She is or is not open to any kind of communication during her sick leave.

She cares about you and she is sorry to have to suspend your work together.

That’s it. If you look through these threads many therapists have handled their illnesses and retirements this way.

Of course you care about her and are sending gifts and driving past her house and wishing her well. Maybe you’d do that regardless, but maybe that’s the only form of communication available to you. Maybe you’re missing her, worried, craving contact and reassurance.

I think it’s not cool and unprofessional of her to leave anyone in the lurch but especially someone with bipolar, especially someone with whom she’s been having very intense sessions. All I see in your post is a therapist who thinks about herself (her issues, her house payments, her license, her feelings about you) and not about your needs or her impact on you.

I’m sorry if that’s harsh-sounding, I know it’s hard when people criticize our therapists and it’s not her fault that she’s sick. But being a therapist isn’t just making sympathetic noises at people and feeling high on their need for you; you actually have to be responsible to them.

I agree with everything you said. There are many much better options to handle the situation than how this t did. Literally just gone for months with no explanation and no alternative service offered. It sounds irresponsible

I agree, too. I mean, my T offers me the contact info of a backup T if he's just going on vacation for a week. He said he considers it "abandoning his practice" if he just goes without offering that (and he's a solo practitioner). When I saw ex-T, she worked in a practice and always told me who was covering for her when she was on vacation (once I started seeing ex-MC in the same practice, it was usually just that they each covered for the other).

It could be more difficult to find someone to cover for a T immediately if they suddenly fell ill (or had to be away for another unexpected reason), but I'd think they'd still have an obligation to do so within a week or two (if it extended that long), if at all possible. And to provide some sort of periodic update to clients.

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Originally Posted by Quietmind 2 Yeah, I'm not saying you're stalking your therapist. I think your therapist communicated badly. I was not clear enough on that important part (due to remembering frightening things, then other boundary stuff with another therapist) that your therapist wasn't clear, and she "went off" on you abruptly when she wasn't clear in the first place. I also really don't like how some therapists have double standards. Eg, a client can't be late even for a serious reason but the therapist is repeatedly late. Had a big rupture with my therapist over it, and I also used other examples to illustrate the difference in standards. As for grounding, I basically go out of the clinic altogether, and sit in a staircase until I'm grounded. I don't drive but have been too dissociative to take public transport back immediately.

Once I did express my annoyance to my T about the double standard. Why do I have to give 24 hour notice to cancel, but she frequently cancelled with only a few hours notice She admitted that it isn't a fair policy.

Sitting in the stairwell is a good idea. The processing following a session is so important.

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Originally Posted by Favorite Jeans Beth I’m sort of mad at your therapist, frankly. I’m sorry that she’s sick, it must be awful for her, but it doesn’t absolve her of her responsibility to you. And she has not held up her end of the bargain. Here’s what it would look like to hold up her end of the bargain: She’d tell you that she is going to be off for x months and will be in contact with you at x time about a possible return. She thinks her colleague Y would be a great fit for you and is able to see you weekly and has agreed to cover in her absence. With your permission she will talk to said colleague and hand over your file. (Not that “other therapists are available”; she is specifically handing your care to someone trusted while she is on leave.) She is or is not open to any kind of communication during her sick leave. She cares about you and she is sorry to have to suspend your work together. That’s it. If you look through these threads many therapists have handled their illnesses and retirements this way. Of course you care about her and are sending gifts and driving past her house and wishing her well. Maybe you’d do that regardless, but maybe that’s the only form of communication available to you. Maybe you’re missing her, worried, craving contact and reassurance. I think it’s not cool and unprofessional of her to leave anyone in the lurch but especially someone with bipolar, especially someone with whom she’s been having very intense sessions. All I see in your post is a therapist who thinks about herself (her issues, her house payments, her license, her feelings about you) and not about your needs or her impact on you. I’m sorry if that’s harsh-sounding, I know it’s hard when people criticize our therapists and it’s not her fault that she’s sick. But being a therapist isn’t just making sympathetic noises at people and feeling high on their need for you; you actually have to be responsible to them.

Your post is so on target that I may just email it to her (without your username or forum disclosure, of course). Bottom line...her therapeutic skills are very poor. She's supposed to be an expert in communication, but she has created a complete communication breakdown.