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Default Jun 25, 2022 at 08:09 PM
  #1
I don't actually think my relationship with L is in jeopardy. So it's not that kind of rupture. I've been with her long enough to know that this will somehow get resolved and actually make our relationship stronger. However, it really really sucks that we're having another rupture.

We have an routine that if I email her, she will email me before noon the next day either responding or letting me know when she'll respond.

I forget why, but L and I scheduled a phone call. Four mins beforehand she texts me and asks if I could push it back by 15mins. That really bothered me telling me just a few minutes beforehand. I agreed though. It was just 15mins and I wasn't doing anything otherwise. Then the next issue was about an email I wrote her at 1am -ish about feeling in the way. I thought she would email back before noon with a response or a time she'll respond. She responded to other emails I wrote before that, but not that one. So I emailed her back after noon, and she said she thought she didn't need to respond to it until noon the next day? If we want to get all nitty-gritty, yeah that's what we agreed upon. However, that would mean I'd have to wait over 24hours for a response, and I "assumed" she would never make me do that. Okay. And lastly was yesterday. After session, I was feeling really sensitive and called her asking for a 5min reassurance (not processing) phone call. She emailed me and asked if we could do it this morning. Again, I had nothing planned, so that wasn't the issue. This time, the fact that she didn't even have 5 mins for me REALLY made me feel in the way.

My issue is that I feel like I'm in the way, a burden, or too much for her. She says I'm not. She says that each situation had nothing to do with me. Yet it does affect me. She tells me I can reach out to her. But lately she hasn't been able to be there.

I just don't trust reaching out to her anymore. I still feel like I'm in the way.

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Default Jun 26, 2022 at 12:26 AM
  #2
To me it sounds like your T is really bad in keeping her own boundaries and now all of a sudden trying to enforce them. It's good she is, but she should never have loosened them in the first place. It's her responsibility to keep them, so that she doesn't induce unrealistic expectations. Now you are hurting, and that is her fault. I'm sorry

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Default Jun 26, 2022 at 12:51 AM
  #3
And her boundaries have changed! Especially from covid times to now. During covid, I had her full attention. We had the office to ourselves. I could talk to her at night. She wrote me long reminder emails everyday. She spoiled me during covid. And now that she has her life back again, she's too busy for me. Her reminder emails are two to three sentences. She's never available at night. She moved offices. She has her client load back and now extra work because she owns part of the business now. I really wonder if she can handle a client like me anymore. I really feel like I'm just too much, too difficult, depend on her too much. I don't regret being with her. I still love her. But I don't feel I can trust her at least not right now.

But again, somehow when I've thought other ruptures were the end, they haven't been. So I'm trying to hold onto what hope I have that she will help make it all better. I don't know how she will. Maybe my emotions are just really high right now? But that's also why I need her so much.

I just went through a move, evaded eviction, got sued instead, dad's dog died, always sister's drama, had to quit smoking for good this week, had covid, only got to see L for one week in-person in 5 weeks, and there's always the looming threat that she might move.

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Default Jun 26, 2022 at 01:06 AM
  #4
I think she isn't lying when she is saying you are fine, and not too much. As a person, you are not. You are sweet and awesome. But that doesn't mean she has the time to spare. She has a right to her life, to enjoy it when she is not with clients. That's a good thing, in my book. I am forever grateful that my T is taking care of himself, so I don't have to worry about him. But she should never have given you all that time during covid. That messes with the concept of continuity of care. I know she is still there for you, but to you, who you have no power in this relationship, it is like a breaking of the path you were both on. The continuity is broken, and you now need to focus on reastablishing trust.

I think perhaps it would be best for you and your T to discuss this. To focus on your relationship for a few sessions. To establish new ground rules, so that you gain back your secure footing, that you know what to expect. I heard what you said about having many shifts in your life. I understand wanting to discuss it with your T. But it seems to me that the relationship with L is your anchor, your safe place, and it is less safe now, less stable, less predictable. Your T needs to fix that. Not by telling you that you are not too much (you are not). But by telling you what you can and cannot expect of her post covid. To reestablish a predictable environment and to reestablish trust.

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Default Jun 26, 2022 at 03:55 AM
  #5
Hugs, Scarlet. I agree that a big part of the issue was her giving you things that she's now apparently unable to give you, at least with the same frequency or immediacy. I agree that I don't think you're too much as a person. It's more that what she gave you before has become too much for her now, in combination with other things she's doing.

So, the 5-minute phone call. I agree that it sounds like a very small amount of time, and I'd also be upset that she wouldn't give it to me that evening. It's like how my T had allowed the "in-person today, right?" texts for a few weeks, saying they were no problem and literally took him 30 seconds to respond to. And then suddenly they became "irritating." (Which was very upsetting to me.) He said even though they were very quick, that all the things he has to do add up. T

hen when H had hip surgery last month, I had to take over basically every household chore, plus stuff with my D, for a couple weeks. And I was saying to Dr. T how much stuff it was, that some of it seemed very minor individually in terms of time, but combined, it was a big chunk of my day. And that was sort of an "aha" moment for me, realizing how something like a 30-second text is small on its own, but everything adds up. Note: I am not comparing you to a "chore," but simply saying that things do add up.

It sounds like that's what's going on with L here, that she has all this other responsibility now, so that's all adding up. And she wants to still support you, but might not be able to in that window that she'd previously been able to (like calling in the morning instead of that evening or replying to your email the next day). I know this is a sore topic for you, but she also got married recently, right? I have no idea if that is related at all, but it's possible her spouse is taking up more of her time or, say, telling her, "no more work tonight, take a break!" Like if she says, "I just need to reply to a client email, then I'll come watch TV with you" (or whatever). (Maybe they had already lived together, I forget, in which case it's likely not that.)

This also makes me think of how pre-Covid, Dr. T used to have a pretty open schedule and saw fewer clients, so pretty much any time I wanted an extra or earlier session--or to change my session time--he had something available. Then he took on more clients with Covid because there was so much need in our area (I think he went from having 25 sessions a week to 35, something like that) and suddenly couldn't accommodate extra sessions most of the time. So then I often heard "no" from him the few times I asked for something. It felt like a safety net that had gone away. And I said how I'd been spoiled before, when he had more time. (It does seem like he's been more flexible lately, so maybe his client load has dropped a bit?)

Anyway, I agree with AliceKate that you need to have a discussion with L about what you can expect from her now, in terms of what you can give and in what time frame. Like clarify the email response time, for example. And if you want a quick call from her, is that something she can generally do in the evening, but that one night was an exception, or will she usually need more notice or be unable to talk in the evenings outside of an emergency? Or she can talk to you one evening a week or reply to x number of emails, something like that. I really hope you're able to work all this out with her.
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Default Jun 26, 2022 at 05:04 AM
  #6
Thanks for your examples LT.

Yes. I need to know what her limits are now. Like a year ago she gave me her updated schedule, but I think it might be different now.

Her life has changed a lot too. She did get married this year. However, she doesn’t live with her H yet. He's going to training for his job and they can't be together yet. When he gets out, that's when they'll know where he'll be assigned and where they'll move. The move is like a haunting fear of mine.

She also purchased 50% of her business, so now on top of everything else, she had that work to do.

She's a busy woman. I get that. She has a full life, and I am truly happy for her. But I feel like she no longer has time for me and she's not admitting it to me or herself. So I keep hitting her limits. And it hurts.

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Default Jun 26, 2022 at 06:05 AM
  #7
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Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel View Post
Thanks for your examples LT.

Yes. I need to know what her limits are now. Like a year ago she gave me her updated schedule, but I think it might be different now.

Her life has changed a lot too. She did get married this year. However, she doesn’t live with her H yet. He's going to training for his job and they can't be together yet. When he gets out, that's when they'll know where he'll be assigned and where they'll move. The move is like a haunting fear of mine.

She also purchased 50% of her business, so now on top of everything else, she had that work to do.

She's a busy woman. I get that. She has a full life, and I am truly happy for her. But I feel like she no longer has time for me and she's not admitting it to me or herself. So I keep hitting her limits. And it hurts.
I completely get that it hurts. (And how you can be happy for her at the same time.) Plus you also don't know exactly what her limits are right now until you bump up against them.

It's like with my T when my check-in texts became irritating to him one week when they were fine the week before (and I'd even asked to make sure they were still fine!) He told me he'd just assumed I'd stop them on my own, but then I didn't. I said it was like he expected me to be psychic and know exactly when they were starting to bother him. Like when I was hitting his limit. Which isn't fair.

(Not that I think you're irritating L!)

I think this thing you said at the end here might be a big part of what's going on--that she hasn't admitted to herself yet that she has less time or can't give you what she did before at the same level. And she needs to realize and admit it to herself before she can admit it to you.
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Default Jun 26, 2022 at 08:18 AM
  #8
I fully understand why you feel hurt. And it's on her. Seriously, it is. Sounds to me that she's too busy for anyone's good, even her own. My suggestion is to talk about this with her. It amazes me, how t's can fool themselves.

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Default Jun 26, 2022 at 01:23 PM
  #9
I talked to L. She thinks it's partially because the news of the possible move is coming at the end of July. She thinks my nervous system is on edge because it's always been in the back of my mind. I think that might be part of it.

She also wants to to practice more asking for what I want in more detail. Like the phone call on Friday night. She put it off until Saturday just in case I needed to go over 5mins. She didn't want me to feel rushed or brushed off if she didn't have the extra time Friday night. She says I can always ask and she'll always be honest with me with her availability.

I feel I either need her to explain (even the smallest detail) why she can't be there OR provide me reassurance that it's not me and that she wants to make sure she can give me her full attention. She's done that before, so it's not an absurd request.

I just still hurt and still don't know if I trust her that I'm not in the way. My nervous system still remembers covid times and misses them. L says our current structure does still work for her. It works for me IF I understand what is going on and am not in the way. I've felt like a burden my whole life. I don't want to be seen that way with her.

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Default Jun 26, 2022 at 04:57 PM
  #10
I think she is trying to be there for you, but it could be that her other clients are just as high need and if she has to read email and reply at exact time and exact length and make reassuring phone calls, it might not be physically possible. Just can’t be done. It’s not because you do anything wrong. Some things just hard to get done in a limited time we humans have in a day

Asking to call in 15 minutes instead of right now could be because she’s sitting on the toilet constipated. I think it’s just life and perhaps it’s her fault that she agrees to all these extra but then can’t provide such high level of care. Typically professionally speaking she must reply in 24 hours. If clients are unable to wait, then there is a need for higher level of care: emergency type of thing. Most therapists aren’t available for such continuous care for every client

I do understand that it’s upsetting but I think it needs to be discussed with her. She might need to make changes and possibly so do you. How much extra help she can and should be able to provide. What strategies could you use if she’s not available. What other resources are there if she’s not around. Maybe since life circumstances changed, she needs to adjust her time frames and communicate them to you. She is trying but one could only do so much
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Default Jun 26, 2022 at 08:13 PM
  #11
Yes. Hence why I posted this:
Quote:
We have an routine that if I email her, she will email me before noon the next day either responding or letting me know when she'll respond.
We also have a plan for if I can't hold out until noon the next day. This has nothing to do with my safety.

And it's not the amount of time that bothers me. 15mins is no big deal. Seriously. And the phone call was planned, not me demanding right that second.

What's been triggering me is feeling like I'm in the way. I am dealing with an immense amount of stress and my need for support has increased. It's making me extra sensitive towards her. Actually, I'm more scared of her right now than angry or upset. She might be moving which would mean telehealth for minimum a year. Neither of us want that, but it's a possibility.

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Default Jun 26, 2022 at 08:25 PM
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...Asking to call in 15 minutes instead of right now could be because she’s sitting on the toilet constipated...
No surprise thats where my mind went...
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Default Jun 27, 2022 at 11:28 AM
  #13
Well, I don't even know why I posted this thread. I knew it would get repaired. I had a session with L today, and we're on our way to mending it all. I'm better understanding what's going on with her and she's helping me try to figure out what's going on with me. I was sensing something going on with her, but it wasn't me being in the way. Now as to why I got triggered, we're still trying to figure that out. She thinks it's a combination of just coming back from covid to settleing in, and then my fear got triggered because her changing times made me worry that things weren't stable. She also really believes that I'm reacting to her possible move. She said she's reacting to it too.

I wish I we could stop having these ruptures. They're either because of me getting triggered or being sensitive, or because of a misunderstanding. I don't know why she puts up with me as a long-term client.

I'm still scared of her. I know for sure right now it's because of the possible move. It's been brought to the forefront now. But at least I feel I can trust her again.

P.S. In case you were wondering, no the 15mins had nothing to do with a bathroom break. (Though my mind went there too at first).

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Default Jun 27, 2022 at 11:32 AM
  #14
HUGS Scarlet

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Default Jun 27, 2022 at 12:01 PM
  #15
Its scary getting to the other side.
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Default Jun 27, 2022 at 04:05 PM
  #16
Hugs Scarlet I can relate to you so much I don't cope well with any change, it's scary. I hope things get better for you and L.
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Default Jun 27, 2022 at 04:29 PM
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I'm glad you seem to have gotten it repaired, Scarlet. I know you mention how you keep having the ruptures, but it seems you're repairing them more and more quickly, which to me is progress. Maybe they're more like conflicts than ruptures? And I think it can help to post threads like these, if nothing else, to be able to look back on them later and see you worked through it. Also, I think it can help others to read about your experiences, including figuring out the source of the rupture.

Could L possibly be moving next month, or would she just find out about it then? Either way, I definitely see that causing anxiety. Plus the settling in from Covid and changing times.


I know some of my recent rupture with Dr. T (which I feel has been repaired) was due to, right after a conflict involving concern about moving from in-person to virtual, him having to move a session to virtual at the last minute without explanation. Then, the next in-person session being disrupted by the tornado warning on our phones and his wife calling in the middle of session.
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Default Jun 27, 2022 at 05:04 PM
  #18
L will find out mid to late July if she'll be moving, and then if she is, she'll move in the Fall. She did tell me that her and her H are going to appeal if they do say they have to move.

I think that's what helped the most for me from today's session: knowing that she doesn't want to move and this is affecting her too. Sometimes I forget about her feelings because she's the therapist and I'm not supposed to take care of her. But it is super helpful when she does tell me her feelings because then I can model off of her and it is teaches me to be empathetic.

Yeah, changing sessions is hard. For me, any change is hard.

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Default Jun 27, 2022 at 07:06 PM
  #19
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I talked to L. She thinks it's partially because the news of the possible move is coming at the end of July. She thinks my nervous system is on edge because it's always been in the back of my mind. I think that might be part of it.

She also wants to to practice more asking for what I want in more detail. Like the phone call on Friday night. She put it off until Saturday just in case I needed to go over 5mins. She didn't want me to feel rushed or brushed off if she didn't have the extra time Friday night. She says I can always ask and she'll always be honest with me with her availability.

I feel I either need her to explain (even the smallest detail) why she can't be there OR provide me reassurance that it's not me and that she wants to make sure she can give me her full attention. She's done that before, so it's not an absurd request.

I just still hurt and still don't know if I trust her that I'm not in the way. My nervous system still remembers covid times and misses them. L says our current structure does still work for her. It works for me IF I understand what is going on and am not in the way. I've felt like a burden my whole life. I don't want to be seen that way with her.

*sigh* I don't know...t's are expert at causing us to feel like the errant child. How do we know when it really is on us...or when t is just not owning her sh-it? They have such power over our minds.

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Default Jun 27, 2022 at 08:19 PM
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*sigh* I don't know...t's are expert at causing us to feel like the errant child. How do we know when it really is on us...or when t is just not owning her sh-it? They have such power over our minds.
I'm sorry you feel so distrustful of Ts. I've had a few bad ex-Ts too.

L is different. L will tell me what's going on with her if it affects me or will help me. I do not post anything personal about her on here. It's me respecting her privacy. She did share some stuff with me today about what happened on Wednesday between us. It really helped. But I'm not going to post about it.

L owns her ****. Always. She also doesn't over apologize. We talk about it as owning our own parts in "the dance". She helps me twease out who was responsible for what. And it's not about blame. Never. She always says it's about compassion and curiosity.

I think you might believe in L more if you knew all the ins and outs of our relationship. Even though this "rupture" (I do think LT's "conflict" might fit better) did hurt my trust, after working through what happened, I do trust her again. I trust her to be 100% honest with me. I trust that she's not going to leave me. T trusts her too, so that helps.

I know L has looser boundaries than many here deem appropriate. Even my dad has voiced concerns. He's also in the category of people that believe therapy should be short-term, not indefinite. But her boundaries work for me. She teaches me through example. She shows me her weaknesses and vulnerabilities. She's not the focus, but she definitely isn't a wall.

And I think even this forums will agree that I've improved with L.

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