Discussing with a T the cause of or blame for ruptures

I’ve been struggling to explain some thoughts I have to my T, I wonder if you guys can help me.
I feel that with my last T, when we had a rupture, the T generally placed all the blame for the rupture within me. This felt unjust, but also, I think that over time I internalized some sense that I was ‘damaged’ and ‘faulty’. I fear that my new T is also doing that.

For me a rupture means that my early trauma feelings got triggered (which is really painful when it happens, I’ve seen several T’s and it happened at some point with all of them).

It makes total sense to me that when we have a rupture, both of our ‘selves’ played a part in it. I hope that the therapist is aiming that these feelings don’t get painfully triggered, and my ideal T would say something like: ‘I failed in my aim to keep you safe in this relationship in that moment, (and maybe say sorry).

Does this make sense to others? Any thoughts?

For me, a rupture is when the relationship is in jeopardy. It could be anything between a misunderstanding to a disagreement to an actual hurt. And I agree, usually trauma feelings get triggered. Hurt, pain, betrayal, and fear are usually feelings involved.

L explains it as a dance where each person involved has a role they played. It's not about blame, but about owning your part like you said.

It sounds like you're so used to the blame game that not only do you blame yourself, but also your therapist. Blame is not necessary. Empathy and curiosity and kindness are. Working through and learning from ruptures are important to growing in your relationship. And I do think apologies are important both verbally and in actions.

I have struggled with this with my T, as well. When he triggers me (usually by saying something thoughtless), I want him to own his part in it. He says that we co-create what happens in the room, but I am always dissatisfied with how he handles the ruptures. It always feels like he's not owning his part, that he needs to do more, to accept more responsibility, to feel worse than he does about it.

But I think the desire for my T to own that he hurt me and somehow make it all better is a re-enactment in itself. Because the abusers always denied any wrongdoing, I want my T to own more than he really should, to kind of "make it up” to me, to give me what I didn’t get in the past. Although he hurt me deeply, all he did is accidentally bump an old wound. He is not really responsible for the deep pain I am feeling in that moment, although it feels like he is.

It's possible if this is a pattern that has happened with all your T that it really has more to do with you than with them. (It's also possible that Ts really suck at this, that they deflect blame too much—that is a very real possibility.). Or maybe it’s some combination of the two.

I don’t know what happened between you and your T, so I’m imagining it to be like the ruptures between me and my T. So I’m imagining that your T didn’t truly “fail to keep you safe.” I’m imagining that your T did indeed keep you safe in the room (i.e., that you were not being abused or assaulted), and that it’s more that you didn’t FEEL safe. And I’m imagining that the feeling is because your T triggered a time in your past when you actually were not safe, and so it's easy to project that onto your T.

Like you, I have an internalized sense of blame and shame. And that feels so awful that sometimes I want to flip it and make is someone else’s fault, just so I can relieve myself of the burden of blame for a while. But I’ve come to believe that these situations are no one’s fault. My T calls them landmines. Neither of us put them there, and the only way to avoid them is to not move at all, which is no way to live. So we tiptoe around as best as we can, and he occasionally steps on one, and I can’t really blame him for it. Although I sometimes want to, and then we get stuck there and don’t really do the work that leads to healing.

I’m not really sure what I’m trying to say or if this has been even remotely helpful. Just know that you’re not alone in this dynamic.

Yes it makes sense...I was thinking about this earlier. I have no idea how to handle rupture type situations. I feel like when I have brought things up, it's always 'my fault' for reacting to something in a bad way. It feels like I'm a child screaming at an adult that I'm not happy, I need more/better etc, and the adult just telling me they know I feel hurt but also I'm wrong. I don't see the point in bringing up rupture things anymore, it doesn't change anything for the better.

OliviaB - L calls them landmines too! We're not bad or at fault for running into one and neither is the other person. It just is because of our trauma. How you work through it is the important part for both parties. You shouldn't be blamed or made to feel bad/shame. You deserve empathy and validation and compassion.

Thanks. It sounds like L is able to own her part. I don’t think I’m playing a blame game. I feel that it’s the therapist who identified the source of the rupture as within me, and I’ve tried to stand back and observe this and have thought - hang on, this isn’t right.

Thanks. I identify with a lot of what you wrote. I remember you replying to me on a previous thread I started, and what you wrote then was also helpful.

You said that you can see a re-enactment in what happens with your T. I’m puzzling over that same thing too, as my situation feels like a re-enaction too, and that’s hard to make sense of. Now I’m pondering this, and thinking about what I’ve read about re-exactions, I’m wondering if the way I was talking to my T, somehow led her to respond in a way that is the re-enaction. Perhaps that explains it.

I also think that T’s do seem to suck at this, generally. I had one T who was brilliant at it, unfortunately she stopped working due to ill health.

There was someone who used to post on here who seemed to have a brilliant T, her T spoke of failing the client, that’s what gave me the idea that a T might take that approach.

About the question of whether my T ‘failed to keep me safe’. What you wrote is thought provoking. However I’m conscious that therapy can be re-traumatizing, and that if the trauma feelings are repeatedly triggered, that isn't going to be helpful, and that it’s possible that in that moment that triggered me, I wasn’t safe from emotional harm.

Thanks. It’s useful for me to hear someone with a similar experience to me. I look back at my last therapy experience and I think talking to my T about the ruptures was a destructive experience and I should just have never gone back.

I feel very lucky in my relationship with my trauma T. She apologizes when she thinks she pushed me too far, or in the wrong direction, or if a part gets intensely triggered, she notices that and tells me that maybe we went too fast.

I managed to tell her once about the insane anxiety I had because she never responded to an email I wrote. It took so so so much bravery on my part to tell her that. I was CONVINCED she was going to tell me that I had crossed a boundary, and that this was it for our relationship. I had officially became Too Much.

She apologized because she realized the email was in her drafts folder, and wasn’t sent. More than that, she understood completely where my anxiety and fear came from, and validated it.

I think it's wonderful that the other poster's T was willing to look at it this way. I also think most Ts, if told they are "failing" the client, will get defensive and possibly even consider termination, since it's unethical to keep working with a client they are not helping. I know there's a big difference between "failing me in this particular instance" and "failing me overall," but I could see Ts conflating the two. I think many Ts have their egos/identities tied up being a "helper" and don't deal well with the thought that they might actually have hurt someone.

I think the same is true of "emotional harm." Since these re-enactments are co-created, it seems like something the two of you failed to do, or perhaps just something that happened (perhaps not a failure on anyone's part). You could argue that as the T, they carry a greater responsibility than the client does, and that's fair. But, if the therapy is causing emotional harm, I could again see a T going the termination route. In my own experience, I haven't had much luck getting Ts to accept more responsibility than they feel is theirs (I'm not saying that's right, just what I've experienced.)

I will also say that in my case, my fixation on my T and wanting him to accept responsibility and then fix it was both unrealistic and a way to avoid doing the real work of looking at the past. It's like I wanted him to atone for the sins of other people, and he wasn't willing to, and it wouldn't have worked anyway even if he'd tried.

I'm not saying that's what's going on with you--just putting my experience out there for consideration (and rejection if it doesn't resonate). I just worry that by going down this route, you might get even more hurt. But also, perhaps it's empowering for you to ask for what you need and to push the issue. Perhaps this T will come around and accept more responsibility. Or perhaps this T can't help you and it's better to know that now than to keep getting stuck in these re-enactments. (I just know for me, an involuntary termination would have been the ultimate re-enactment and I'm not sure I would have recovered from it.)

Thanks for your thoughtful post. I agree that to mention the words emotional harm would probably not go down well. I’ve written out a sheet with diagrams showing how we are possibly in a re-enactment, but I’m not sure about showing it to her in case it caused offence. It was helpful for me to do it and might help me to put it to one side.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brown Owl 2 ... For me a rupture means that my early trauma feelings got triggered...

I also define rupture that way, for myself.

My therapist and I had a rupture in June. She really did take full responsibility for it, which I appreciated. I thought I felt a resolution, but lately the haunting feeling of the rupture has returned. I'm finding myself stuck with regard to overcoming the feeling of betrayal - even though I do believe that I had a very minor role in it (it was primarily on her, however).

I am planning to speak with her in today's session, but I'm finding it difficult to truly feel that the rupture is resolved and that I can trust her as I did prior - even though she has "owned" it.

I hope the session goes well, Beth. It's encouraging that she's "owned" it. I know what you mean about having trouble trusting that a rupture is resolved. I've found that I can *think* it's resolved, then a month or two later, I am hesitant to bring up a certain topic or request with my T for fear of how he'll respond. So then I realize that I need to talk about it more.

I've had a couple ruptures with my T this summer, and it feels OK now, but I also feel I'm treading a bit more carefully with him. He seems to be acting more carefully with me as well.

For me a rupture is something that threatens the relationship, particularly my ability to trust and feel safe with the therapist. It usually involves something from my past being triggered, too, or just an area that's a particularly sensitive place for me, an insecurity or area of self-doubt or self-loathing.

Just because someone owns their part of a rupture and even apologizes and works to prevent it in the future, doesn't mean the original hurt isn't still there. And that is okay. Part of having a healthy relationship is how we navigate the hurts. You can bring up past hurts. It's good to do so. Not to blame, not to make the other person feel bad, but to find more understanding and acceptance, maybe validation? It's okay to want reassurances. It's okay to have your feelings. And it's okay to need more processing.

that's good stuff, scarlet.

Thanks for saying this.
I too am not over a rupture I had with my t. I realize it’s a rupture partly because of this thread. I always thought a rupture was a disconnection in the relationship because of something wrong that someone did to the other, where one could say they did x,y and the other could take accountability for z. As if they always need to have done something wrong.

My t triggers me with actions that are considered right and normal but they hurt me tremendously to the point of me thinking of running away. I’m thinking of cancelling this week because I can’t get over this, but what he did is right, normal under any circumstance. I blame myself for the pain and rupture and can’t fix it within myself. It’s my fault, I’m wrong and can’t stop hurting.

To know that maybe it’s ok to still talk about as challenging and degrading as it feels is interesting. It simply feels like I shouldn’t get offended by it. Don’t know my way forward but thanks for this.

This is a great point.

I often talk about being hurt by something my T said or did in our session that I know that someone without my attachment injuries or trauma might not be hurt by. It's. not always about them apologizing as they didn't actually do anything wrong but they did play a part in the rupture. It's more about them acknowledging and validating the hurt. perhaps saying something such as 'it makes sense that me saying that would have hurt you, I'm sorry I caused you more pain' And then maybe moving into why I am so hurt by it. where is the original wound coming from. usually if it's that painful to cause a big rupture it's because of something that happened me as a child. There have been times when I was able to explore that and acknowledge and validate that part of me that was hurt that I have found some sort of healing. This might not work for everyone I know.

I would also say too that sometimes we can also have a tendency to try to hold onto the hurt. Again, I'm speaking more specifically about myself and not necessarily others. I get hurt quite easily and sometimes I find myself almost wanting to hold onto the hurt. I can't quite describe it here other than to say at times I find myself wanting to stay in the hurt as it feels more familiar to me rather than letting it go and moving on. Not sure if that makes sense maybe not. Its like that's the feeling I'm most used to...feeling hurt ...it almost feels more comfortable in a weird way