A Breaking-Away Dream & Rupture

Some of you may recall the severely painful rupture I had late spring-early summer with my therapist of 4 years. To recap as succinctly as possible, she was suddenly out sick for what ended up being over 3 months. Her absence followed her common habit of frequently being out of office (usually with notice of only a few hours).

By the time she'd been away for 6 weeks I was having a very hard time with her absence. She doesn't live far from me, this town is fairly small, I've known where she lives for a long time, and I left a gift for her on her porch. She sent me a message through her receptionist, her message was warm and thankful for the gift - not that I gave her the gift looking for a "thank you" - I was sending her love, nurturing, and trying to keep connection between us.

After that I sent her tea for 2 weeks, then left flowers on her porch.

At that point she called me out of the blue, after no direct connection for nearly 3 months, and left a message on my phone in which she completely went batshi*t on me about giving her gifts, and how she could "lose her license and everything she'd worked for" if the gifts were discovered. Not a gentle word, nothing, just a harsh reprimand.

I fell apart. No one knew; I kept my life going as always. But inside, I was shattered.

When she returned, finally, we discussed the rupture. She took full responsibility for the tone of her message, and for leaving a message at all, saying she should have waited until we could somehow speak to each other. So I want to be clear on that: she fully took responsibility for her upsetting (devastating) message.

She explained that if her higher-ups found out abut the gifts it could have put her job in jeopardy and even if that didn't happen, her higher-ups could have banned me from being seen at the clinic. She said, several times, "If I lost my job I could end up being homeless!" That bothered me, because even though she said the words and really did seem to convey the feeling of taking responsibility for her mistake...I didn't have the gut feeling that she fully empathized with me.

We talked the whole thing over a number of times (sessions). I had at least 2 dreams, extremely disturbing, around the theme of the whole fiasco.

Okay. So. Please understand that I am not asking for feedback on the gift-giving, the ethics, etc. We've hashed that over to death on this board months ago.

The thing is, I still feel stunned by my t's phone message. She had always been so kind, understanding, honest - but in a validating way. She also seemed to understand both my strength - and my very much sensitivity. Then that horrid message, in which she sounded so selfish, so unattached. She made it clear, in that message, that she has a job that is far, far more important than is my well-being (that's how it sounded to me, anyway).

I have continued twice/week sessions with her. Every once in a while the subject of the rupture comes up. She will say, with concern, "That's still an issue, isn't it." (Statement, not question.) Or she'll nod as though she understands. She has apologized numerous times. It is clear that the situation weighs heavily on her. I fully recognize that she didn't realize how badly her message would hit me.

We've discussed how the incident triggered strong memories of certain of my mother's behaviors.

Yet, a few nights ago I had another odd dream about the rupture. I mentioned that dream to her, and she didn't go into it. Neither did I; there seems no point. It's all been said.

There has been some healing. There has not been enough healing to make me feel entirely trusting of her, not the way I did. I saw her become someone else and I saw the capability she has of being just another cog in the workaday world. How she can come, and as easily, she can go.

My ability to trust people has been damaged. My ability to like people has been damaged. Since the rupture I feel much, much more isolated than I did before - and I don't care about being isolated. Why trust people, why gift people with my most heartfelt self, only to have them turn on me?

All of this brings me to my question:

Have any of you who have gone through a serious rupture with your therapist truly overcome it and been able to move on from it - or even to grow from it?

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this, Beth. Two things:

The negative one first: I went through a serious rupture with my former marriage counselor that we could not recover from. Tried for a few months--and he did not take responsibility or apologize the way your T did. But I realized I just couldn't trust him the way that I once did. So we terminated.

With my current T, I've had multiple ruptures, including one that was bad enough for me to terminate 3 years ago. I was really hurt by some things he said, both in email responses when I was in crisis and then later when we discussed it in session. But I ended up going back a couple weeks later because I realized I still trusted him and felt I still had work to do with him.

He seemed different toward me after that, like my leaving made him realize how he'd messed up, though he never came out and said that (well, he did admit that he shouldn't have said a particular thing to me while I was in crisis). He just acted differently, more empathetic and caring. I do feel like we've truly overcome that.

We've also had multiple unrelated conflicts and ruptures since then, and we've been able to talk through each of them. I'm not sure what's made it different--I think we both just understand and respect each other more. Like we each try to take the other's feelings into account when dealing with conflicts. I think that's growth for me. He even said during a more recent one that it seemed like I was truly examining my part in what happened. Not in the sense that he was trying to blame me, but in the sense that it was growth for me to do that rather than to just focus on my hurt feelings. It's seemed like he was examining his part as well.

So I think it can happen, that you can work through a major rupture. I do think it's important to keep talking about it when it comes up for you, which it sounds like you've been doing. If you try to just bury it, that won't work, at least not in the long term. And your T acknowledging that her message upset you seems like an important step.

Thank you so much @LonesomeTonight! Your post is full of little gifts. imo, you have done an immense amount of growth with the rupture/reconciliations you've had with your t.

"... in the sense that it was growth for me to do that rather than to just focus on my hurt feelings"

That ^^^ right there. That's where I am sooo stuck. I know that the way my t handled the situation (her phone message) was all messed up, and she knows that, too. And logically, I know that her concern about her job and the ability for me to keep being a patient at the clinic are very realistic concerns.

But I'm stuck, like a little kid. No matter how I work it, this way, that way, I cannot get past the pain I felt when I heard her message. I mean, when I started listening to her message that day, as soon as she said Hi Beth, it's (her name)- I thought Wow! She's finally giving me a call to check in! Because I hadn't heard from her in a couple of months.

And then, slam! Her message. That awful, mean message. All I can truly feel is how badly she treated me. I'm frustrated with myself, but the feeling of inconsistency and abandonment won't budge.

Anyway, it is GREAT, how well you've done with your own situation! I would feel very, solidly proud, if I were you. And thank you for your reply to me.

What would you want and need to get through this? I gathered you already got a sincere apology and you have also talked through it several times with your t, but it is not enough yet, something is still missing. What would make you feel better? Is it possible and realistic to get it or not? If yes, go after it, either asking from her or working with your thoughts. If not, you probably need to consider if there is still enough trust to carry on working together anyway, or do you need to look elsewhere.

Perhaps a creative way to resolve some of this would be if she made you some of that tea you got her and you could talk about some of the ways both of you have grown over the past years? Just a thought I had.

I've been through multiple ruptures with L. The one that currently comes to mind is breaking my confidentiality. She did it last year on my birthday by talking to my sister without my permission, and she did it again this week by talking to her coworker who is backup T for me while she's gone. I have no energy to deal with this recent break in confidentiality, but deep down I am mad at her. She's already apologized, but she has broken my trust in this aspect. I understand why she did it, but that doesn't excuse the fact that I never gave her permission.

I'll forgive her over time even with broken trust. I'm learning to acceot all of her and see her as a whole. She has flaws and weaknesses. She's been honest and upfront about them. And even though they are hard to deal with, I know she has my best interest at heart. She loves me with all my flaws, and I'm trying to love her with all hers. She is a good person at her core. And she is helping me in many many ways. And that's why I stay. The good outweighs the bad.

Do you feel like you've been idolizing your T? Do you ever see people as black and white or all or nothing? It sounds like this is the case. It was probably a good thing to see this other side of your T. I'm in no way saying what she did was right. And it's a great opportunity to learn how to work through people's flaws.

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Originally Posted by elisewin What would you want and need to get through this? I gathered you already got a sincere apology and you have also talked through it several times with your t, but it is not enough yet, something is still missing. What would make you feel better? Is it possible and realistic to get it or not? If yes, go after it, either asking from her or working with your thoughts. If not, you probably need to consider if there is still enough trust to carry on working together anyway, or do you need to look elsewhere.

Your question is excellent. I want to be able to accept that there are rules to follow in life and that I have to be at peace with that reality as long as I live in "normal" society. I would like not to carry the hurt I have into other aspects of my life, i.e., into my feelings about other people, and my relationships with others.


As for my t's phone message - in the way she delivered it, no, there's nothing to be done there. She blew it, she knows it, I know it, and to a degree my perception of her is altered. She can be that "other person." Which means everyone can be that "other person." So I'm on the watch.

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Originally Posted by AliceKate Perhaps a creative way to resolve some of this would be if she made you some of that tea you got her and you could talk about some of the ways both of you have grown over the past years? Just a thought I had.

How funny you've mentioned that, AliceKate. My t actually did bring me a jar of sun tea she made from one of the teas I sent to her. It was the nicest tea, btw! Delicious.

But I love the second part of your thought. We have not done that. I would like to find the courage to bring up your suggestion in session.

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Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel I've been through multiple ruptures with L. The one that currently comes to mind is breaking my confidentiality. She did it last year on my birthday by talking to my sister without my permission, and she did it again this week by talking to her coworker who is backup T for me while she's gone. I have no energy to deal with this recent break in confidentiality, but deep down I am mad at her. She's already apologized, but she has broken my trust in this aspect. I understand why she did it, but that doesn't excuse the fact that I never gave her permission. Ooh, breaking confidentiality is so wrong. If you gave your permission for her to speak with back-up t it would have been a good thing for her to do. Otherwise, it's just not cool. I'll forgive her over time even with broken trust. I'm learning to acceot all of her and see her as a whole. She has flaws and weaknesses. She's been honest and upfront about them. And even though they are hard to deal with, I know she has my best interest at heart. She loves me with all my flaws, and I'm trying to love her with all hers. She is a good person at her core. And she is helping me in many many ways. And that's why I stay. The good outweighs the bad. Your acceptance and ability to re-frame your hurt into a positive perception is highly commendable - and it is wise and mature. That's true self-growth. Do you feel like you've been idolizing your T? Do you ever see people as black and white or all or nothing? It sounds like this is the case. It was probably a good thing to see this other side of your T. I'm in no way saying what she did was right. And it's a great opportunity to learn how to work through people's flaws. No, I don't see people as black/white; I do see all the greys. I don't idealize then devalue people, not at all. I was just shocked and deeply hurt by receiving an accusing, harsh message from someone I thought to be more organized in her process and approach to life challenges. To walk the talk, so to speak. I guess I feel like she let me down by not using the tools she tells me to use. Almost like she's lied to me.

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Maybe high expectations?

Again, I'm not saying what she did was okay. And I'm not saying you need to forgive her or continue with her. My point is just to look at what you can control in this situation and the how and whys. You can't control her, but you can control yourself. Is there something to be gained from this situation? Is there any positive for you?

Therapist are normal people who make mistakes. So long as their intent and core is good, then working through these things is usually the healthy thing to do. Do you think your T intended to hurt you? I personally can't answer that for you, that's why I make no judgment.

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Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel Maybe high expectations? Again, I'm not saying what she did was okay. And I'm not saying you need to forgive her or continue with her. My point is just to look at what you can control in this situation and the how and whys. You can't control her, but you can control yourself. Is there something to be gained from this situation? Is there any positive for you? Therapist are normal people who make mistakes. So long as their intent and core is good, then working through these things is usually the healthy thing to do. Do you think your T intended to hurt you? I personally can't answer that for you, that's why I make no judgment.

Yes! My expectations of people, and of myself are too high. I come from a family of high expectation people, I always disliked it, but here I am, doing the same thing.

No, I am absolutely sure my t never would want to hurt me. She was extremely upset when she returned and we discussed it all. I mean, terribly upset and she really did accept responsibility for her lack of sensitivity.

Besides simply being shocked and terribly upset by the harshness of her message, which I really do believe was much too condemning, I fully admit that I have a major issue with people (including myself) being multi-faceted. i.e., being one way then suddenly being a different way.

What do you think are the concrete steps that can lead you there - to be able to accept the rules and to be at peace with things you said?

People are flawed, no one behaves constantly in a perfect manner and definitely not the way we want them to act. But in the other hand, sometimes the same people or completely different people act in a wonderfyl way exceeding our expectations. That's the beauty of living with other people, I guess.

I've come back to this thread several times, not sure if I have anything to contribute or not. I'm just going to ramble, and if anything resonates, good. And if not, that's OK, too.

I have been working with my T for nearly 7 years and over 700 sessions. And we've had a few major ruptures in that time, ruptures that I didn't think could be repaired. They are hard to call to mind right now (what they were about), but I know I felt hurt and betrayed (devastated, really) and like I would never be able to trust him again. And yet, I do. More than ever. Something really, really important that I learned in this process is that trusting another person is as much about trusting myself as it is them. Initially, I needed my T to be "perfectly safe" in order to trust him. And when he misstepped or said something that hurt me, the trust collapsed like a house of cards.

But people will say and do hurtful things. I believe that every single person has the capacity, in the right set of circumstances, to be thoughtless or mean or cruel or violent or self-centered. To require people to be perfect or "good" all the time in order for us to feel perfectly safe is a set up. It's impossible and will inevitably lead to failure. I only came to trust my T on a deeper level when I came to trust myself, to trust that I would be able to handle the normal hurts and slights of any real, meaningful relationship. If we can't come to trust ourselves, our strength and our ability to keep ourselves safe, I don't think we can sustain long, deep, authentic relationships.

Also, although I know the notion of "younger parts of self" doesn't resonate with everyone, there is something in what you want from your T that seems young to me. When we are very young, a rupture in the primary relationship can have devastating consequences (life or death). In adulthood, we have learned (in theory, if everything goes well as we are developing) that ruptures are a normal part of relationships and can be repaired. I'm wondering if it might be helpful to think of these powerful feelings as coming from a younger part of you, and if trying to talk to and reassure that part that you've got this, you'll sort it out, and they are safe would help?

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Originally Posted by elisewin What do you think are the concrete steps that can lead you there - to be able to accept the rules and to be at peace with things you said? People are flawed, no one behaves constantly in a perfect manner and definitely not the way we want them to act. But in the other hand, sometimes the same people or completely different people act in a wonderfyl way exceeding our expectations. That's the beauty of living with other people, I guess.

That's a wise question. I don't know the concrete steps. I didn't say anything I regret, though. I am thinking about the concrete steps...even if I could come up with 2 or 3, it would give me something solid to work with.

I completely agree with you, @Oliviab, about the "younger self" needs. It all comes straight out of my childhood. My mom was mentally ill. She could be the most loving, affectionate, adoring, reliable mother in the world. She was an amazing lady!

Possible trigger:

Then she'd do a 180 and crash into an "episode" and become violent (slapping me, beating me), verbally abusive (threatening to kill me while I was asleep - and this was when I was 8 years old),

accusing me of bizarre things (she'd become terribly paranoid).

My mom was, quite literally, "two people" in the same body. And there was absolutely zero "grey" - she was completely black/white.

So I definitely know what triggered me when I received my therapist's message. And her message reinforced my terror of a seemingly trustworthy, awesome, loving person suddenly turning into a monster.

So I know that much. But I'm completely stuck on how to resolve it. I just sit here with that phone message traumatizing me, over and over.

Instead of working through the rupture with your T, maybe you can work through the trauma from your mother. That might be your core issue.

I haven't read all the replies here, and neither can I say if the rupture(s) that I had would be considered 'serious' to you, but they certainly were to me. As for the question, I'm not entirely sure I know whether we ever did 'recover' from the biggest one, because other events took over and forced the end of the work between us.

If those events had not occured, honestly I'm not sure we actually could have got to the deep stuff again, because something had significantly changed between us. I no longer held her on such a pedestal. I had seen more of her humaness than I 'should' have, and I think the same has happened for you.

You can no longer see her in the light that may be necessary for effective therapy, and this is exactly why I think a lot of therapists really do try to keep themselves cut off from the client. To avoid this. I can now see that, but I personally still think that I needed my Ex T to be the way she was with me fora certain phase in my recovery. And, as is true in nearly all things in life, there came a time when maybe I needed something different. The universe (as it often does) facilitated this for me despite my shouting, crying, breakdowns and downright refusal to let go.

That said, I still very much respect my ex therapist, and love her dearly. Now though, it is as a human being with flaws and faults and struggles and different personalities, just like me. It is a more mutual respect and love, not an idealised fantasy of her.

For you, time will tell, I am sure. You may not know whether you can recover from this, but from what little I know of your story I think you would give it your best shot, and it sounds like she wants to try and help in that too? I do always like to think that "what will be will be", though, and I hope that one way or another you can eventually find a path forwards, because I know how difficult it is to be stuck in that place.

I'm sorry if non recoverable stories weren't welcome, but your post drew me to respond, and I hope it helps in some tiny way. I guess it just depends whether you can do the work now knowing she is just as human as the next person.

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Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel Instead of working through the rupture with your T, maybe you can work through the trauma from your mother. That might be your core issue.

Exceptional idea, Scarlet! You have nailed it. I think my t alluded to that idea, but I totally missed it. Wow. Thank you sooo much for pointing that out. I finally feel like I have a direction with this issue.

Oof, ruptures with shrinks are so hard! I had a series of minor hiccups with my long term T. When I was in a particularly low place she suggested I meet with someone in her practice that can possibly help me (temporarily). I trusted her and was so desperate to feel better that I said yes. A long standing fear I had was that she was trying to get rid of me. It was something we'd been over numerous times over the years. When this suggestion came up I asked if this was her way of pawning me off. She assured me it was not. After meeting with this person, it was made clear to me that I was sort of handed off. I was inconsolably hurt and angry - and I felt lied to. I ghosted the T and she reached out to me. I vaguely explained that I had lost all trust in her and I felt like what we had was gone. She emailed back asking me to come in to talk about it. I then replied with a detailed email listing all the betrayals. She expressed concern and again asked me to come in. There was something about how she asked me to come back to resolve this that really touched me. I said I'd be willing to hear what she has to say. When we met she took full responsibility. And she apologized - not for how it made me feel, but for how she acted. She went on to explain her line of thinking, admitting it's a flaw of hers: she gets caught up in how she thinks she's doing good, instead of thinking of the impact it would have on me. I had the opportunity to express what I was feeling and how I was affected and she was humble and accepting. Since then, she checks in every once in a while. I've also become more comfortable confronting her when she does things that don't sit well with me. And she consistently listens and adapts and we have chats about it. So I think it's possible. It takes a lot of patience, encouragement, and communication.
Edit: clarification

Thank you for your lovely post @Waterbear. I welcome it very much. I'm sorry that you had to handle such a painful ending with your therapist. Yet, your insight about the Universe is spot on, in most of my experiences with life.

I adore my t as a person and as a woman. I always have. As far as her ability as a therapist, it has never impressed me greatly. That said, she'll pop up with occasional comments that shock me with their insight. So, I've stayed with her for these past few years.

It isn't as though she fell from a pedestal really; a little bit, I suppose. But mostly it was that her phone message really hurt - especially because it was the sole communication I'd received from her in all the months she was suddenly away. For that, it is very, very difficult for me to let go and forgive - I'd be hurt if a friend did it, let alone my supposed-to-be professional therapist.

But the bottom line of it all is that yes - the whole ordeal brings up old pain from my relationship, as a child and young adult, with my mother.