Working with indifference

Have you had positive experiences of working with a therapist towards whom you felt indifferent?

For the past six months, I have been working with a new therapist. I started working with her after the painful ending of my previous therapy. The new therapist is absolutely fine. There are lots of aspects to her/the work which on paper are really positive (so far, at least) - she is experienced; she is well trained/qualified; she is friendly and gentle; she is open to different ways of working (she is somatic trained, offers sessions outdoors, etc); she offers insights; she seems self-aware and has done a lot of personal therapy so her stuff does not impact my work; she is confident with darker stuff; she seems safe and robust.

For me, I feel relatively comfortable with her; I often leave session with material which is useful; I don't particularly trust her but I believe she has good intentions; I like the town where she works and I enjoy the routine I have established around attending the session; I feel able to raise uncomfortable stuff.

She's nice. I don't like her. I don't dislike her. I don't feel any pazazz! Mostly, I feel indifferent towards her and often varying degrees of irritation (she talks too much and she is too smiley, for example). I miss feeling something for my therapist. Lots of my work lies within the relational stuff and it feels like there is something lacking because there is nothing gutsy going on.

Do you think indifference itself can create conditions for good work? Maybe this is decent, solid therapy and I don't really value it because I am used to something more complex - my previous therapy was full of intense feelings on both sides and was characterised by ruptures and was often (borderline) unethical.

(I am also aware that the possibility for me to develop intense feelings is entirely possible and in a few months time I might be posting here with my hands wringing with love or hate or both!).

Wish I knew, comrade. I will be watching this thread in hopes that you get some good input because I'm starting to feel ready to attempt therapy again with someone new...
I wish you all the best with this t!

Seems she might be a "good enough" therapist. Do you think that the indifference may be a defensive reaction to your over-attachement in the relationship to your previous T and getting hurt in the process?

Thank you Artie. Did you have experience of therapy before working with L? That might provide you with some information about what you might want now. I know that things were difficult for you with L and I think sometimes those difficult experiences can be really formative and obscure our needs. For example, we can overcompensate and reject anything which resembles the previous experience or seek to re-create something (which ultimately wasn't helpful) because we miss it (because of our relational wounds). I think something like this is happening for me - what I need is the stability which my therapist offers but I am discounting it because I remember the previous intensity. It's not easy starting work with someone new that's for sure.

She is definitely good enough. For example, I would be reluctant to end the work with her because I wouldn't have an identifiable reason and I can see that she provides sufficient conditions for good work. Maybe that's it. For now, maybe that is enough grounding to see what else grows and in what direction.

Yes, my indifference could well be a defence. I am used to my defence showing as attack or hostility, but I am often removed too. I wonder if I am taking a pre-emptive position. She doesn't express the intense emotions which my previous therapist showed towards me (love or anger, for example). So I am interpreting that as her indifference and taking up a similar position myself to protect against the hurt of being an inconsequential person - being inconsequential was a fundamental childhood experience for me, like many of us here.

I saw 2 t's previously many years before I started with L; the first was a jackwipe that I walked out of the first session and never went back and the 2nd I saw for like 6 months but there was zero connection.

I do admire your being brave enough to try again. I feel like I want/need to but am not there just yet, not enough to make a phone call anyway. I'm researching t's again anyway.

I think (no, make that I'm sure) that's what makes me hesitant to start with someone new after L, if it's not the same level of attachment/intensity it will feel 'wrong' somehow even though ultimately, it's that same attachment/intensity that contributed to the mess at the end with L and my head doesn't want that again. I guess I'm afraid that my heart will want that again.

Yes, I do. The pitfall of having strong emotions equals pain in my book. I would rather do without.

Then again, human relationships being what they are, there will inevitably be fluctuations to this indifference - such as feelings of like and/or conflict. It is hard to sustain a feeling of 'indifference' in any long-term relationship. Some people will get on our nerves, some people we may come to like more or less.. And the T relationship being what it is: transference, projection, attachment, even love may also come to muddy the waters.

Do you think, maybe, this is new 'territory' for you to not operate on strong feelings - whether as a general pattern in your relationships or more selectively within T-relationships? This might be destabilising and/or create some uncomfortable-ness.

That being said, I think whatever one feels (indifference or love, or hate) is revealing and offers information + possible exploration as part of the therapeutic work.

I once talked a couple of months with a psychologist to whom I felt exactly like you described, pretty much nothing that is. She was ok. It was a short period that had an end date already when we started so that was not the reason we ended the sessions.

We didn't talk any really deep stuff as that was not the purpose of the sessions, but she was extremely helpful for the issues I needed her to help with.

I used to adore my t before her, so I couldn't help comparing, and as the previous t relationship was full of strong feelings, I felt all the time that something was missing - even though the strong feelings were often hindering, not helping the work. I think without the former t relationship I would have been totally happy with her. But shortly, she was helpful. She was professional. I was working on the issues I needed to work on without feelings involved, she was like a tool really, not a real person I felt any kind of personal interest to. I wonder if an intense relationship and feelings before have made us junkies for feelings and strong attachments?

It was only two sessions, but the backup backup T I saw last week while Dr. T was away, I felt very indifferent toward her. Like she was just...there. Lacking personality. Not reacting much to what I say (yet still managing to trigger me with some of her questions/comments because of the topics). I know it could be that I don't know her that well, but I felt instant connections with Dr. T, his regular backup, and ex-MC (not so much with ex-T). I feel no desire to see her again and even considered canceling the second session (sort of wish I had, in retrospect).

It made me think that maybe I've become used to the intensity (for better or worse) of the relationship I have with Dr. T. Which can be very painful at times, but it seems to meet some sort of need in me. Like I'm working something through that maybe I missed out on in childhood/teen years.

I also think it would be difficult at this point for me to work more long-term with someone with whom I didn't feel some level of intensity, where the relationship was just there, where maybe they gave me some support or helpful tools, but that's it. Where there may be nothing I could say is really *wrong* about the therapist or the relationship, but it's just blah. (Though maybe at some point, I will be ready for that.) And that sounds similar to what you're dealing with now.

So, I don't know. Maybe what you're in right now is actually good, healthy therapy, like you were wondering about. And it's just that it feels different from before. Or maybe the indifference means that this isn't the right therapist for you. Maybe you need some level of intensity or connection for the therapy to feel/be effective?

Out of curiosity, have you talked about your previous therapy with her? Does she know what that was like for you? If so, I wonder if it's possible that she's holding back some to avoid possibly re-creating something that was hurtful to you? I know Dr. T has said he's tried to be careful not to make some of the same mistakes that ex-MC did (though then he's still ended up hurting me in the process!), for example. If she doesn't know about your previous therapy experiences, then maybe this is just how she is. Just something to consider.

LT what you said "... but it seems to meet some sort of need in me. Like I'm working something through that maybe I missed out on in childhood/teen years." This, for me with L! I never had that closeness with my actual mother, and my grandma that I did have it with sporadically, died when I was a teen. Honestly, I think that L just couldn't handle it anymore, the fact that I was still working through that **** with her, hence her increasing insistence "I am not your mother or your grandmother!" (said almost angrily the last time she said it) and "You don't know me!" I'll stop now.

I've been working with my therapist for nearly 9 years, and I would say we have a pretty intense relationship now (generally positive at this point, but things can end up pretty intensely negative still too). For the first probably year and a half, I was pretty indifferent. I kept seeing her because she was helping with a few things, and I didn't dislike her. Then, seemingly out of nowhere, I developed incredibly strong transferential feelings for her, largely negative. It was like all of my early relational trauma was unleashed into this therapeutic relationship. It was a lot of work for both of us to stick with it.

I'd seen 3 therapists in the past, none of whom I had much of a relationship with at all. I was not ready for the intensity I experienced with my current T. And now I'm school to be a therapist so go figure.

"seek to re-create something (which ultimately wasn't helpful) because we miss it"
@comrademoomoo - you have hit the nail on the head. Yes, this is exactly what I've realised I'm trying to do, and however much I want it to, it's not going to happen because they are two totally different people, both in professional approach and in manner and personality.

"if it's not the same level of attachment/intensity it will feel 'wrong' somehow even though ultimately, it's that same attachment/intensity that contributed to the mess at the end..."
@ArtieTheSequal - again yes, this is absolutely how it is for me. My heart wants to recreate with current-T the kind of relationship I had with ex-T, even though my head knows it would be bad (for me). I don't know if it's just wanting to cling to what was familiar, or because I'm just not over missing ex-T yet.

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I had attachment issues with all 3 T’s that I’ve see . Each one lasted 5-6 years and they were all intense and painful. I constantly yearned for their love and attention. And even when they came close to giving me what I wanted it never alleviated my strong feelings. These feelings controlled my life and all I did was think about therapy .
About 8 months ago these feelings shifted with my current therapist (I had been seeing her for 6 years). These unbearable feelings were no longer there . I no longer achedfor her, her vacations didn’t phase me and I wasn’t thinking about therapy day and night. and the intensity of therapy lessened . I could finally focus on my day to day ‘regular life’ and not constantly about therapy and the therapeutic relationship.
Although I still can’t talk about the ‘why it shifted’ with her we have talked about how the intensity has changed. I’ve even been able to come if some of my meds. To be honest I do miss what I perceived as closeness, but I feel like I’m finally making progress in therapy and not spinning my wheels.