[Mountaindewed]

Especially if she is heavy set? I didn't even realize what I was doing could be considered fat shaming. I'm not trying to be rude. We stand up at the end of our session and she stands by the door to say goodbye and I just make eye contact which is hard for me so I just kinda look all over. She does seem to get a little bit uncomfortable when we are both standing up. I'm about 130 pounds less then her according to a cryptic email she once sent.

I'm just wondering if I'm unitenionally being rude and how not to be.

[LonesomeTonight]

Did she specifically say something to you about it? If so, I'm curious as to what she said. When I first read the subject about "looking your therapist up and down," I thought maybe it was more that she felt you were assessing her as a woman. And she felt either somewhat objectified or threatened by it. Not that I'm saying you were intending to do either of those things--I'm just wondering whether she specifically said the fat-shaming part or if it could be something else?

I mean, I know that I observe my (male) therapist from head to toe at some point during the session. As I could basically share what he's wearing from his shirt to jeans to socks/shoes. And I'd notice (probably) if he had a haircut or trimmed or dyed his beard. I tend to take people all in. I think it's part of hypervigilance for me (in my case, partly trying to observe full body language, maybe take cues from what he's wearing as to his possible mood, etc.). I wonder if it could be partly that for you?

Or maybe it's just that you look all over in order to avoid eye contact, like you said? I know at times I can end up staring at someone's (including my T's) hands when they're talking (especially if I'm anxious) or possibly their shoes. And if I was looking at their shoes, then made my way up to their face--then maybe felt awkward so turned my gaze back downward--that could seem like I'm looking them up and down when really it's an anxiety thing. Or even just that I'm sort of lost in thought and looking around, where I might, say, look a tree or building up and down the same way.

So I'd ask her more about it and try to explain what's going on for you.

Yes, it is very rude and intrusive for men to look women up and down.

You seem preoccupied with food, body size and weight and you assign motive and meaning around these factors. Not everyone has these same preoccupations. It is entirely possible that her discomfort is nothing to do with self-consciousness about her own body size, but rather that being looked up and down is a dehumanizing and objectifying experience for all women regardless of weight.

You don't need to make eye contact, but you need to establish a way of interacting with women which doesn't involve looking over our bodies whilst disregarding our faces. Maybe she can help you with the social convention and expectation stuff.

[ScarletPimpernel]

I think it's rude to look anyone up and down, men or women. It could mean many things: sizing up an opponent to measuring a person's attractiveness, etc. It isn't respectful. And it doesn't have to do with anything concerning weight. It seems you struggle with sizeism. Probably best to address this with your therapist.

[mote.of.soul]

Well, as you said, there was nothing judgmental in your looking at her, and I think as a therapist she should have enough insight and self-care skills to deal with whatever is going on in her own mind. Maybe give her a hug next time which will bring you both closer spiritually.

[Therapy reviewed]

When I first met with my T I was taken aback at her size. I know, I know. But there you go.

Often in the early years I'd have thoughts of "how can she be all sorted if she's this large". I know, I know. But there you go.

After yrs and yrs with her I come to the conclusion she was completely happy with who and how she is and there wasn't a rocket built that could shift her own self worth.
So my looking at her wouldn't have mattered one tiny bit to her

[Rive.]

Weren't you the one who was stared at in a waiting room by a client once and that made you uncomfortable as hell??

It is not only extremely rude but judgmental, condescending and frankly unacceptable.

Would *you* like to be scrutinised like that?

Oh and by the way, it is very much intentional behaviour, not unintentional. You are choosing to look someone up and down like that.

[InkyBooky]

Yes, this is rude/crude behavior. But it is also most likely a symptom of your own lack of emotional and social self-awareness. These might be good things to work on in therapy.

You asked "how can I not be unintentionally rude?" Well, I would start by bringing this issue up in therapy and letting your therapist know you want to increase your self-awareness skills.

[FloatThruThis]

I’ve had a couple of our male customers look me up and down and it makes my skin crawl. You could try looking her between the eyes. Looking someone between the eyes is supposed to give the impression that you’re looking into their eyes, but without the intensity of actually looking into their eyes.

[divine1966]

Some people believe that if someone is on a heavier side they must be miserable, self conscious and uncomfortable. It couldn’t be further from the truth.

Being skinny isn’t a requirement for happiness or confidence.

I am sure if she was uncomfortable (big IF), it’s because of rudeness rather than her weight.

Having said that, I understand you are having hard time with some social skills and are pre occupied with weight. It’s a work in progress.

Tell your therapist what you told us and work on those skills, I am sure she can help, and please stop worrying about other people’s weight.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by FloatThruThis

I’ve had a couple of our male customers look me up and down and it makes my skin crawl. You could try looking her between the eyes. Looking someone between the eyes is supposed to give the impression that you’re looking into their eyes, but without the intensity of actually looking into their eyes.

I've heard that looking at someone's forehead has a similar effect, where it seems like you're looking at their eyes.

[retro_chic]

Yes, this behaviour is often considered rude however, it doesn't sound like you meant it to be. I don't know if it's the same for you but I will always try to get a good look at T during sessions so that I can hold onto that picture of her between sessions. I don't look her up and down but will look at different things at different times like when we talk I will obviously look at her face, when things fall silent I will maybe look at the floor/her feet, when she greets me at the door I get a full view of her, stuff like that. If you can, I'd suggest talking about this with her.

[Gavreel]

Did she say anything to you about it or make weird eye contact? I wouldn't worry about it so much and just focus on your therapy and getting better, if you genuinely feel you have intimidated her in some way, maybe just tell her and talk it out.

[velcro003]

I am absolutely horrific about eye contact. I just can’t do it. It is mostly because I feel so scrutinized, and examined closely. I know I am at least partially right. T’s rely on body language as well.

All that being said, I think talking to your T about self-awareness and just aware of the situation you are in. Sort of like “reading the room.”

[nottrustin]

is she really uncomfortable by you looking at her or are you projecting your discomfort on her. Often when we think we know how a person is feeling it is because that is how we would feel if the roles were reversed.

[Mountaindewed]

She said on Monday she dealt with "eating disorder stuff." In high school. So idk. Maybe I do say stuff and do things without realizing that it triggers her.

[Lostislost]

You don't need to worry about triggering therapists, they have ways to deal with that in supervision etc.

It's hard for anyone to be looked at and judged by another, because of weight, gender, clothes, disability, race etc.

How you look at other people and judge them speaks volumes about you, it says nothing about the person you are looking at. It must be very useful for her to have these behaviours show in therapy, so it can be addressed.