Therapists and self-disclosure

I've been wondering about therapy and self-disclosure about the therapist.

There is the old school blank slate approach based on the belief that the therapist's personal feelings, experiences, and biases could potentially interfere with the therapeutic process. By remaining neutral and not revealing anything about themselves, therapists could create a space where the focus was solely on the client's experiences and emotions.

I get that this approach was to encourage clients to project their feelings and thoughts onto the therapist, which brought awareness to unconscious conflicts and dynamics. The therapist's apparent "blankness" was meant to mirror the "blank canvas" that the client could project their thoughts and emotions upon, thus revealing hidden aspects of their psyche.

I know this approach is rarely utilized anymore and now most therapist are much more relational and do disclose when and if appropriate. I get that when making
the decision to self-disclose it is meant to be in service of the client. e.g if it will help the client in some way, not harm them or at the very least not take away from the the therapeutic process or the clients time.

It confuses me then when therapists hold seemingly innocuous facts back as a way of 'holding a boundary around self-disclosure' E.g not sharing where they are going on holiday.

To me it is understandable that this in fact would have a negative impact on the client and may even cause unnecessary preoccupation and anxiety around it especially if a client has a more anxious/pre occupied attachment style. I mean I get why the therapist isn't going to share the name of the resort or specifics but to not be willing to share the city or country they will be in seems so counterintuitive. I don't know to me it just feels like a bad excuse or bad therapy and I read so many examples of it online.

I see your point. And I have had bad feelings about it just like you. It is like they are withholding information that they have no need to withhold as if I was going to follow them or something.

This is a thing for me right now, too. My T is on vacation this week and, as usual, he wouldn't say anything about where he was going. We had a long discussion about it recently, and I did my best to explain why it made me more anxious not having any sense of where he was. I said how one reason was that if, say, a natural disaster or other deadly event happened, if I knew he wasn't in that area, I wouldn't be worried about him. (He said, "You want to make sure I'm not spending a week fighting in Ukraine?")

I said I knew I probably wouldn't hear about other things that happened, like if he fell into the Grand Canyon (he said that would actually probably make the news) or got mauled by a bear. (I was trying to go with sort of ridiculous things, and this would be a horrible time of year to visit the Grand Canyon due to the heat, so I seriously doubted he was doing that.)

He seemed to understand a little more, but still wouldn't budge. I even said something vague like what general area of the country, what direction he was heading in from our area, etc.

As he tends to fall back on the "professional relationship" thing, I said I imagined if I asked my medical doctor where she was going on vacation, she'd likely tell me. Or if I worked in an office, my boss. He said how the therapeutic relationship is different and more personal.

How it partly was an issue because it would take the focus away from me and what's going on in my life. To which I said, "Uh, isn't that what we're doing now? If you'd just said, for example, 'We're going to Cabo,'" then we could have moved onto other things.

His response was if he said, "I'm going to Cabo," that it would be weird for it to end there. I said if knew he was only going to say where he was going and not answer any questions, I would just say, "OK, have a good time" and not ask follow-up questions. He said that it wouldn't be a natural way to have a conversation. I said if my neighbor (who I don't know that well) told me that, I'd probably respond similarly. He was like, "Really?" I said yes (and meant it!) That if it was a friend, I might ask more details, or if they were going to a place I know well, might ask where they're staying.

I said also, that even though I know this is his general policy, it feels like he doesn't trust me with the information. Like, I'm not going to show up where he is. I'm not going to post online where he's going. I forget what he said to that? I think he was just trying to confirm that it felt like it was about me (even though he doesn't tell any clients).

I really feel like if he just said, "We're going to one of the area beaches" or "the West Coast" or "Canada" or whatever, even really vague, it would have gone a long way. It almost feels at this point like he's just sort of wielding his power/authority. (Hm, that might be something to mention to him, actually.) I don't see how this helps me, aside from, I guess, getting used to not having what I want? Like you mentioned, I feel it leads to unnecessary preoccupation and anxiety.

Sorry, this was incredibly long, and only about one aspect of your post! It just hit close to home. I may write something else on self-disclosure in general later.

I saw two (what I assume were) blank slate therapists. For like two sessions. LOL. Yuck. So boring and impersonal. Not for me.

The therapists I worked with long term (and pdocs now that I think about it) were all very open. They had family pictures in their offices. We chatted about vacation plans if they were on the horizon. I knew their taste in reading and movies. Heck, we swapped recipes. (None of this took much of our session time -- it wasn't like we did this every session and usually it was a quick conversation on the way into session or as I was leaving). But I wasn't particularly fixated on my therapists either. I wasn't dealing with issues of transference. I wasn't worried about them outside of sessions. It was just conversation really.

But the personal dynamic was comfortable and very natural. And it is important to me when I choose providers (not just therapists -- I have this kind of relaxed conversation with pretty much all of my providers).

I do think they may need to be more cautious with clients who have a harder time with the therapist/client relationship and professional boundaries.

Artley you described my relationship with my 3 long term therapists too. I don’t think I ever saw a blank slate t. But I did have one session with and over sharer, she spent most of the session telling me how women were oppressed by men. Though I agree she was far too intense.

I could never have a blank slate therapist. I do much better when I have facts. Minor details help easy my anxiety (i.e. where are you going on vacation). Things that impact the therapeutic relationship are also important (i.e. L being pregnant). For me, too, it helps to navigate cartain things that might pop up in a non-therapeutic relationship. I do think dosing disclosures and not over disclosing are important, too.

I'm grateful for the amount of details L discloses. It really does help reduce my anxiety, process how the information affected me, and develop a closer bond with her.

P.S. - LT, L and I have a joke about being eaten by bears. Her first vacation she had with me as a client was she went camping. Of course, my mind went straight to fearing a bear would eat her...lol. There's also a saying on a t-shirt I found that says "what doesn't kill you, will make you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you".

My previous therapist wouldn't disclose much about herself- including her travel destinations. Not that I particularly cared where she was going on vacation...but her blank slate method ended up not working for me for other reasons. It created a lot of relational anxiety on my end and made me MORE "needy" of her validation and what felt like crumbs of caring. In hindsight, she and I weren't a great fit. After 3.5 years we ended rather abruptly and painfully (for me). But it was for the best.

Current therapist is happy to disclose stuff, if asked. He won't volunteer personal info but if I start asking some questions about, say, where he will be going on his next holiday he will gladly give me details about where he's going, method of travel, etc. He might then ask why it's important for me to know and he's very empathetic if I talk about my concerns/feelings around whether he'll return safely, missing him while he's gone, wishing he weren't leaving, and that sort of thing. He makes LOTS of space for that kind of discussion.

Personally, I find that his open method works great for me. I've become less relationally anxious and more comfortable knowing there aren't really any topics that are off-limits in our therapy sessions (including my love and care for him). As a result, I don't tend to ask too many questions about his personal life anymore. I'd rather spend my sessions working on me. But it's nice to know I can ask some questions if I feel inclined. Of course, I'm sure there are limits to what he may want to disclose about his personal life (and I have enough self awareness not to ask overly personal questions) but I trust that he can hold that boundary himself without being rigid or blank-slate.

I don’t tell you all this to gloat, by now means, I have been where you are and the pain is indescribable.

But my current T always tells me where she’s going on vacation, as long as I’m the who brings it up. Like right now she’s gone for 2 weeks. She told me she’s moving and then she’s going to Florida. That’s as much detail as she gives, and that’s as much detail as I need.
I don’t need to know where she’s moving or who she’s going away with. Very benign in my opinion.

I’m just makes my mind stopping wondering crazy things. Abandonment does a number on you and I tend to compare my ‘hard’ times to their ‘wonderful’ life. Her telling me normalizes her to me. It really helps me with the ‘trusting’ process

I don't think it's just blank slate therapists who do this. Honestly I think it's ones who are trying to straddle some of the learnings/theories of the blank slate model with some more modern versions but are doing a really bad job mixing the two. Like they are more relational and will share 'some' things but are still very firmly standing in the blank slate model which honestly I think is damaging for people with anxious preoccupied attachment styles or who have deep fears of abandonment and difficulty trusting others as do the majority of people who have experienced complex trauma. I really sometimes wish part of a therapists training was to actually read some of these forums. Yes they are our 'version' of what happens in therapy so maybe biased and not always 100% factual who knows but they are our experience..

At first, I thought my T was blank slate, though it turned out he just really held back until he knew me.

I think self-disclosure is a pretty difficult topic. It probably depends a lot on the client what can be shared and what can't. For example, my T once shared something of his own life that was completely connected to what we were talking about and was really just showing he knows the feeling and situation and can empathize. But it made me go off the rails real bad. It's probably difficult to tell in every situation whether sharing is good or not.

Regarding the where you go on vacation: I think it's an innocent enough topic that probably in most cases won't hurt the client and could be shared. My T this time shared where he was going (staying at home), but I didn't ask and never have, he only shared due to things going on with me.

I can, however, kind of see why in certain situations the T would not share it. First, of course, if the client would have a high probability of showing up at the place, if it's somehow easy to tell where T will be exactly. This is probably not the reason most of the time. The other thing I can think of is this: it might make the client feel better in the short run, you know where T is, you can think of the place, imagine him there, if something happens in the world, you know he's not affected... I think this is a false sense of security and control. Knowing where somebody is does not in any way affect the probability that they get hurt. Of course there's activities and places in the world that are more dangerous, but I think it's safe to assume that usually that's not what Ts do in their time off.

So, we really have two options if something happens in the world: First, T is not there. In this situation, the client will be calmed by his knowledge of where T is. While this is certainly nice, it also takes away a great learning opportunity. If the client would not know where T is, he would have to calm himself and use self-soothing, without contact immediately available. In my mind, these opportunities are far and few between. So it's a good exercise field.

Second, T is in that location. In this case, the client will freak out. However, even if we look at big disasters, usually the probability to be hurt is actually still quite small. Humans tend to not be very good at estimating correct probabilities.
Let's make a quick example: at the Boston marathon bombings, 3 people died and 281 got hurt. There were about 25'000 runners and it is estimated that each runner brings three people with them, that means another 75'000 people watching. So let's assume there's 100'000 people, although this is probably too low (there will be people watching that the runners did not bring along). This means the probability to get hurt during those attack was 281/100'000=0.281% . For comparison, getting cancer if you're about 40-50 years old is 0.35% and if you're over 60 (which my T falls into), it's 1%. That means my T is 4 times more likely to get cancer than to get hurt in that attack, let alone die.
And that is only if T actually decided to go to that marathon. However, if the client knew T is in Boston, it does to them not matter whether T isn't even into sports or what the probabilities are. It will be a big event of worry and fear. Yes, it probably sucks to be in a city where something like that happens, but it's really not that probable that there's lasting damage from it.

This doesn't even take into account that the Ts plans might have changed, planes might be delayed, not everything about trips is shared and so on.
Finally, I think this is sadly just a part of life. We do not know where our loved ones are at all times and we can't control whether they get hurt. Knowing where they are does not change this. So, I think not knowing is a great way to practice being okay with this, while telling the client where you go will take away that opportunity.

My old T want exactly a blank slate. But didn't self disclose much at all. I remember asking a question regarding her relationship with her mother and she did her normal gentle smile as a response. I remember saying to her "how can I understand me if I don't understand you!?". With that she thought and then said "no I didn't get on with my mother". I thought that might lead to more self disclosures, but it didn't. She was like an elastic band. She'd stretch then go back.

I have mixed feelings about a t's self-disclosure. My long-term t did self disclose quite a bit, whenever she felt like it related to what we were talking about, and I appreciated it all the way along. However, and this is why I have mixed feelings about it, because of those self-disclosures I'd built this version of her in my head that, when she realized it, she was quick to point out that while I know tidbits here and there about her, I don't really know her. I won't go into why this came up because it was painful. But anyway. With the benefit of hindsight, I do understand what she meant now at long last. Would I say I wish she'd never self-disclosed? No, I guess I wouldn't, because most of the time she was pretty good at knowing when to say what; it helped me feel like she really understood whatever I was talking about at the time. But yeah, I'm still a little conflicted about the subject.

Artie - I have to say, I don't think the issue here is with self-disclosure and whether it's helpful or not. I think the issue is that your T said you don't know her. That would hurt. And it's probably not even true (although I don't get to be the one to say). I will say, however, that if a T doesn't allow themselves to be known to me, then they are not the T for me. My T says that I know him, that the person he is in the room with me is the same person he is outside of the room.

Of course, I don't know everything about him--I'm not naive. And I know we all show up a little differently depending on the role we're in at the time. But he insists that he is himself with me, and I believe him. And no one person ever knows everything about another person, all of their thoughts and feelings and experiences and facets and idiosyncrasies--I don't think the therapy relationship is any different (i.e., less than).

I will never know now whether it does or doesn't relate - I get what she was saying though. As in, if she'd never told me those tidbits, i wouldn't have turned them into what I thought was her or whatever. I debated on whether to post on this thread or not. now i wish i wouldn't have because i never seem to explain myself well enough. oh, well.

My therapist didn't tell me she was also in the process of moving. I know I didn't have a right to know or anything. But that seems almost kind of wrong in my opinion especially with how much I was struggling with my move. It would have been nice to have someone else know what I was going through.

Ex-T was person-centred but with a heavy CBT bias, she never disclosed very much in the way of personal stuff, until she had to, because it would ultimatately affect our being able to continue to work together.

Current-T is 'experiential'person-centred, which is almost the complete opposite of what I was used to. Although she (usually) only shares stuff that feels relevant to my therapy, having so much personal information given freely can feel quite daunting.

For someone who often finds themself in natural 'caretaker' mode, it is also quite difficult to remember that although I can care about her, it's not my job to take care of her.