troubles with T?

One of the reasons I came to this support forum is because stuff is not going well with therapy. It's long and complicated, so I'll sum it up.

I've been in therapy on and off, different types, for 30 years. I've gone years in between each therapy experience. I started when I was 11- not my choice. Parents forced me into it due to a trauma. I wasn't ready to talk and so that didn't last long. Had a really awful experience when I went back when I was 17- again not my choice. I won't go into that experience here, because well, that would be a book. I went for about 2 years in college. about 2 years in my early 20's. I was never able to actually talk in any of these. I had gotten so good at not talking, and couldn't figure out how to do it.

In my mid/late 20's I went back. I saw that T for about 5 years, and the last year of it I started to.....not talk, but sort of. It was the first time I felt like I was ready, and I was just working on pushing it out. But then that T stopped taking my insurance. I was devastated! I really felt like I finally trusted someone enough to start talking. It was also very sudden (IMO). She told me three weeks before we would be stopping. So of course I stopped talking, because what's the point with three weeks. I shut down, and decided therapy was not for me. If I couldn't trust that someone would stay- why bother.

But as always, stuff started to come up. I went back to some really bad coping mechanisms. I stopped eating, was purging when I did. SI. So finally I decided to go back. And started seeing H. I have now been seeing her (sort of- more to come on that), for 7 years.

As always, I spent the first couple of years, not talking. I liked her well enough, but it has always been hard to talk, and after my last T leaving me when I was finally feeling ready- I had developed some trust issues. I was fine talking about everyday things, but H knew there was "stuff", and she would ask me about it. And then I would sit not looking at her, or saying anything for the rest of the session. But she didn't give up.

I think I spent a lot of time trying to make her say it wouldn't work out. I didn't talk, wouldn't look at her. Would "run away". Literally ran out of her office several times. Also would cancel for weeks at a time. I would get angry at her. But she called to check in, even if I refused to answer, she'd leave messages. She worked around my crazy schedule. She assured me over and over that she wasn't going anywhere. And finally, I believed that.

In about year 4-5 I finally broke (in a good way). One day she just wouldn't let up. She kept asking and asking and asking- questions about what had happened. So I got up to run off, and she said "No! sit down". I was so shocked. I stopped and turned to say something angrily at her. But anger gets hard for me, and I was just feeling so much- and so I ran across the room, and hid behind a table, and just started sobbing/hyperventilating. She gave me a minute, and then came over and sat on the floor next to me, and Just said "You're okay" over and over. And when it finally ended and I had calmed down enough that I could breathe. She asked "what happened just now". And I talked. I didn't tell her everything, or even any specific thing. Just about how feelings were hard. I think I was in her office for like 2 and a half hours that day.
i
After that day, I truly felt safe with her. I felt like she cared, and started to believe that she wouldn't leave. I slowly started to talk. We found things that worked for me to make it easier. She's the only therapist I've ever known who didn't have a pillow in her office, and that was something I had always held onto as a protective barrier. So she let me bring in a pillow, and later a blanket, which she kept in her closet. We discovered that traditional seating was not necessarily the best place for me to feel safe- so I sat in the corner of her office, on the floor. Sometimes she sat with me, sometimes not. And all of these things helped me to start talking. I started to talk about my past stuff. It was hard, but for the first time ever, I was talking about it.

Then the pandemic hit. Her office closed and she went to online therapy. She was again as flexible as she could be. She did my sessions at night so that I could have some privacy. But I just couldn't get back to my stuff. I have kids, who frequently come to me while I'm on my video call, asking questions, just saying hi. I have to sit outside on my porch to get any little bit of privacy. and it just doesn't feel comfortable, or safe. So I shut down again. I talk about the day to day. And then the poor coping mechanisms came back. Not all of them, but more than I want.

Four weeks ago, she told me she would not be returning to in person therapy. I kind of suspected it as so many others have gone back, and she still hadn't. But it still just made my heart sink when she said it. She was kind about how she said it. She made the decision because she has some health things that put her at higher risk with Covid. She told me to do what I needed to do. She said she would continue with me for as long as I wanted. Or she would understand if I chose to find someone new. She talked about finding ways for me to make this work if I stayed with her.

I am reeling from this. I feel like I've lost my safety, my ability to talk. I know some of this is me stuff that I should work on. But I just can't. I also feel like I can't go and find someone new.

I'm not really looking for advice in sharing this. Just putting it out there how I'm feeling, and well, I haven't said any of this out loud- so putting it out there that I am hurting over this, and just so unsure of what to do.

Thanks for reading if you got this far.

Red

I'm sorry you have gone through all these experiences! It's really hard when a person let's you down, especially a therapist. I totally understand how telehealth isn't the same as in-person. It took L and I some time to come up with a language that described the differences. We simply call it 'withness' now. I would do 100% telehealth with L if it came down to that or a new T. I've put too much into our relationship. She knows me better than anyone else. Though, like you, I would be angry. And your anger is justified. I'm currently angry at L for her maternity leave and even that's justified. As L tells me: your anger loves you. It's trying to protect you and tell you when something is not right. So it's a good thing you're in touch with your anger!

I do not mean to give any advice as you said you're not really looking for that. But I do want to validate your experience and feelings. You are not wrong or bad. And everything you've said makes sense to me.

I hope you find your way forward in whichever path you choose.

And the good thing is it seems like your T would still be there even if you took a break or saw another T. My last T is still my backup T. I write her every month updating her and making sure she's still there. We've been doing this for 4.5 years now. It sounds like your T might be willing to do the same. So even if you do choose not to continue with her, for whatever length of time, she will still be there.

Best wishes!

Hi ScarletPimpernel,

The advice is perfectly fine. I actually really appreciate all of you thoughtful words! I just didn't want anyone to think I was only asking for advice.

First- I love the term "withness" that feels like a very true way of putting that! And I am sorry you don't have access to your T due to her maternity leave. I would definitely struggle with that as well. I will try to bear in mind the stuff about anger. That's still a tough one for me. I am not sure that I would say that anger is the correct word for what I am with H. Anger at the situation for sure though.

I spoke with H the other day about hating the online therapy. She said that I need to work on getting "unstuck". She offered several options. 1. Try to figure out a way to be able to talk with virtual therapy. 2. Find someone for in person therapy (with the knowledge that any time I want to come back I can). 3. And she was not sure if this would even be possible- See if I could find a therapist for in person, who would work on my big stuff that I feel I can't talk about virtually. And see if they would be willing to work as a team, where H would still see me virtually to work on stress management and day to day stuff. I do doubt that insurance would cover that though. As well as difficulties in finding someone willing to work this way. She asked me if I had any feelings about which one I might want to try. I told her "I don't like any of them. I'm going to come up with my own plan". She was supportive of that- as long as it's a plan to help me get un stuck. My current thoughts is to just cancel my Tuesday appointment, and then not get back in touch.. But I know that's one of my old ways of doing things, and will not help in the long run- so I won't do that. I don't think this will be an easy thing- no matter what I decide. I'm sort of stuck in the "This sucks" right now.

But thank you. You're response was actually kind of reassuring. and just- nice to know that my feelings on this are okay.

Red

Just curious: what type of therapy have you done? I ask because it sounds like you're doing a lot of relational and trauma therapy. Have you tried any DBT? The skills from DBT might help you open up when you're ready to with whomever you choose. I know that helped me a ton. I worked with my last T for 4 years doing a lot of skills work. That, unknowingly, prepared me for the trauma work I'm now doing with L. L says if we would have met when I started with T, she wouldn't have taken me on as a client because I wouldn't be ready for the type of therapy I'm doing now.

Another thing that might help you, again with whomever you choose, is writing. Do you write? Email H? Journal? I email L almost everyday. It helps me so so much. That's how I've been able to tell her initially about my traumas: either through emails or bringing in a printed out document for her to read. Now I'm able to verbally put words to most of them.

Those two things might give you a breather from the trauma work while still helping you move forward? You could also do some solo work with workbooks or reading books. I personally can't do the solo work, but I know it has helped many people on here when they get stuck in therapy.

I know, I just gave advice. Just wanted to give you some options to help you get unstuck without feeling like you have to make a decision about H.

Hi again ScarletPimpernel,

I mostly have only worked with basic talk therapy. funny as talking is something that's so hard! but I did do DBT once, and am very reluctant to try it again. In my first post i wrote about one really awful T that I had.....well she tried DBT with me, and it did not go so well. I know it was a her issue and not a DBT issue. But well, I have been very hesitant to try it again since that. The other issue with other forms of therapy is my location. There is one community clinic a town over from me. Not an option for me. It's one of the big companies that hire people right out of school- they stay for 6 months, and then you get assigned a new person. Other than that we have maybe 4 independent therapists in the are. 1 is male which instantly takes him out of the running (I just can't go there). the other three- 2 I don't think I'd be able to work well with based on various things. and the third one is someone I know through a friend on a personal level- so that isn't a possibility. There are some bigger towns with more resources about 30 minutes in either direction- but that doesn't seem , possible at the moment. It's really such a remote area with so few resources.

I do write. A lot actually. And I have used that in the past. Mostly it was little things. Like during a session- after I started talking to H. If something got to hard to say- sometimes I could write it. I actually thought that was a possibility for a fourth option for H. I do better answering direct questions than I do just talking about the things on my mind. I thought I could write stuff, send it to her, and she could use that to ask more direct questions during virtual sessions. Wouldn't help with the privacy bit- but could be helpful in initiating conversation about things that are on my mind.

If I'm honest- I think my biggest issues is this: I went through some big stuff. Stuff that made me very afraid, ashamed, and unsafe. It took a lot to be able to get over those feelings and be able to start to talk about that stuff. Part of it was her being there to help me know that I was safe, and I would be okay. I feel like I've lost that. not completely, but it's just - really scary.

Holy cow- it must be too late for my brain. Just realized I have mixed my letters. I have done some debt- that was fine- but parts were not for me. It was EMDR that went really bad with t from way back when.

I totally get the safety piece especially in-person. When I do phone calls or telehealth sessions with L, it's hard for me to get to the deep things because I don't consider my room a private place. My husband or dad could be listening in. My husband has heard me crying a few times and gets really worried and thinks something is wrong and wants to fix it. My patio isn't private because the neighbors could hear.

The 'withness' includes being in L's safe space we created together. It includes touch, proximity, emotional presence, safety of her being able to help me contain everything, safety from others and myself, getting to see her reactions and expressions, feeling her care and love and gentleness, etc.

I've never done EMDR, so I don't know exactly how it works. DBT you can do on your own. You don't need to memorize the words. I never could. But the concepts were helpful. Like opposite reaction is what you're doing by going to Tuesday's session. I use that skill a lot because I sometimes experience an extreme push/pull with L. Clinging to her won't help nor would pushing her away. So for me, I try to just hold the both/and. Or another concept is window of tolerance. This concept has helped me identify where I'm at emotionally and how to help me get back into my window so I can keep processing. You don't need to find a therapist who specifically does DBT to learn DBT. Neither my last T or L is predominantly DBT. They do utilize it though.

DBT is just one set of skills. I'm just thinking that skills might be more useful to you at this stage?

I get living in a small town. I have to drive an hour and 15mins to get to L. That's my fault because we moved out of the city because it got too expensive for us.

When my therapist when to all virtual therapy, I was not happy. However, 2 years later I think I get more out of it now. Not sure why, but I talk more. It is different than in-person, and I wish we could meet every so often, but I found it to be ok.
Could you try remoter therapy with her and see if it works for you? I was surprised it did for me.

Hi wheeler,

I’ve been sort of doing remote therapy since March 2020. At first it was by phone during my break at work (we had long breaks due to working 2-3 shifts per day). That was a little easier because I could drive down the road and park in the woods and have total privacy. I was able to talk a little about emotional stuff back then because most of it was about the change to remote. But once it was clear that wasn’t changing for a while that took back seat. I do try to talk. I even tried drinking before my session to loosen me up (not a lot drinking- just two seltzer type drinks). But that just made me a comedian. I don’t want to leave h- I just don’t know how to get past my mental barrier with talking.

Red

Have you tried any somatic work? It doesn't require any talking at all but focuses on you releasing trauma slowly and gently. Insurance issues aside (although I understand that financial factors are prohibitive so maybe it's not possible to put them aside), it might sit well beside your established therapy.

comrademoomoo,

I have not tried that, and in fact I don't really know much about it. I will look into it. I definitely like the idea of releasing trauma slowly and gently. Not sure if this is something I can do on my own. seems like there is a workbook for everything nowadays...so possibly.

red

Virtual didn't/doesn't work for me and the type of therapy I was doing with my T. It did help keep me stable and provided a listening ear. I think if you want to stay with H and return to previous topics, you'll need to find a space that you can make yourself feel safe in. I imagine it would be almost impossible to relax and open up like that if your kids could come in at anytime.

On another note, due to my T's health and her family's health; she is closing her practice. Even though the video visits were not getting me to deal with things the same, I'd stay with her if she was to say she could only do video visits. I might choose #2 option - and kind of did. I started seeing an occupational therapist for the exposure type therapy we were doing. That would be somewhat like finding a somatic therapist or some other type of specialized therapy where it is common to have multiple therapists.

My insurance is fine for me to see multiple therapists as long as they are not on the same day and I think they have to use different dx codes. So it might be possible to find someone that would work as part of a team approach. Maybe your T has some people in mind or maybe they could ask around for you. In my area, lots of practices are full and my T had to talk to a couple of the potentials for them to work me into their schedule. So, you might have better luck with the team approach if your T is willing to do some of the reaching out.

Another thought, would it be possible to do some object sharing - would that help you feel more like you were together?

It worked for me a lot of the time when dealing with just the weekly or vacation separations.

Another thing that helped me with the video visits was having some specific comfort items around me during the visit that I could touch to ground me when we did talk about tougher topics.

I know these are not something that works for most.

COVID brought my 20yr therapy to an end similar to your experience... Dealing with the feelings of abandonment and rejection I felt was tough. Well, not so much dealing as suffering.

[QUOTE=Elio;7362275]Another thought, would it be possible to do some object sharing - would that help you feel more like you were together?

It worked for me a lot of the time when dealing with just the weekly or vacation separations.



Thanks for the reply Elio.

What do you mean by object sharing? It sounds like something basic- but all I'm picturing in my head seams odd. So wanted to clarify that.

Red

The tough part is- I want to be mad at her for this. I want to think that it's because she just doesn't want to work with me, or she just wants to take the easy way out, and work from home. But I know it's not her fault.

As I see her at nights virtually, I am aware that her medical condition is both real and serious. Every other week we meet while she is doing a home infusion. She has a serious immune deficiency and does home infusions of immunoglobulin for it. So when I get mad about the situation- I then start to feel guilty- because I know It's not her fault.

It just sucks....It's grieving/suffering.

I'm sorry your going through something similar. It's tough.

Red

[QUOTE=redcog;7362350]For each person it is something unique. Others on here have had objects. Sometimes it's just a business card or a written letter. Some have rocks. For me, a part of my therapy included "play". We did jigsaw puzzles, colored, read books... and so on. The completed jigsaw puzzles have stayed in her office. The first puzzle became very important to me, it is on the top of a the stack under her couch. We did the first one and didn't do any for a long time. So, while it sat in her office under her couch, I could imagine me being there, in her space. Then when needed, I'd have her write something on the back of a piece of the puzzle and I'd take it with me for a while. Then I would return it to the puzzle. These puzzles were 100-300 piece puzzles. 100 you can get done in a session; 300 usually took 2-2.5 sessions depending on the puzzle.

I also have a lap blanket that I used to take in with me to sessions; I use it even now when I have a tough topic. It gives me something for tactile stimulation and regulation. So sometimes having that when we talk can help me feel safer.

What came to mind for you? I could see you doing a coloring thing where you color some and mail it to her and she colors some and mails it back. If nothing more than to have a sense of physical connection to her.

It's completely reasonable for you to feel mad at her or to think that she doesn't want to work with you, even though other actions speak to the difference. It is grieving and suffering and it sucks. Even when it is reasonable/logical. It still sucks and we have very little power in the situation -- even if they don't really have much of a choice, they are making a choice and we are left to respond to their choice. Trying to figure out what is the best thing for us while at the same time grieving the loss of what we hoped would be.

hugs.

Not Elio, but I'm one who has a stone from my therapist's office (he has a lot of stuff sitting around). And he handwrote a brief (2-sentence) note of encouragement for me before a grad school interview once that I still have.

It doesn't have to be something physical. A former therapist had left me a voicemail when I was in crisis, and I listened to it at times when I was struggling or felt disconnected from him. So you could have had her call and leave a voice message or record a voice memo and send it to you. And I have emails from my current therapist and that past one that I would read at times to help me feel connected and remind myself of their care. So if you don't already have that, you could potentially ask for something like that (even if she doesn't usually email, maybe she could make an exception, or else write something on paper and mail it to you).

I have a bunch of objects: rock, bracelet, stuffed animal, blanket, etc. I have cards, emails, voicemails, and meditations she's done for me. And last T I have emails, a stuffed animal, and a rock. I try to get something from everyone who has meant something to me. I even have a card from an ex-pdoc.

I think one of my most emotionally valuable items I have from L is a scrapbook we've made together. Anything and everything goes into it: art, lessons, skills, memories, quotes, etc. You and H can make pages and put them in there. She could mail or email them to you and you put them in. Or you can make your own scrapbook.