[Rose76]

I started seeing a therapist. I took this step because I've been having a bad time with depression since November . . . and it's been getting worse.

I've been in and out of depression all my life. Years ago, I got all kinds of treatment. I went to shrinks who prescribed a long list of different meds, most of which did nothing. I did therapy for years, though it never seemed helpful. I gave up on all that stuff. I figured it's really up to me to tough it out when I get depressed, get through it and move on. That was more or less working. But I'm in trouble now and can't seem to pull out of it.

So yesterday was my third meeting with this counselor. She's very nice, but I'm getting nothing out of these sessions. I hate sitting in this lady's office. I get there, and I can't wait to leave. I open up and talk honestly because I want to make this process work. I leave there just feeling worse.

My primary doctor referred me to a psychologist, whom I'll see in a few days. I have a strong feeling it's going to be a complete waste of time. I'll go. I figure - "What have I got to lose?" Might as well try everything. But I despair. I feel like I don't have words to describe how defeated and hopeless I feel. I don't like to get melodramatic, so I try to just relay the facts as plainly as I can. I'm very isolated, which is unhealthy. I know what I can do about that. I need to get out and get involved with other people doing something constructive. There's tons of stuff going on in my community. But I can barely get out of bed.

The thing is this: I think I come across as not having any big problem. Once I get up, get dressed and get out of the house, I believe I seem pretty normal. My life is not all that bad. I'm retired and there is no bad stress going on in my life. But I feel detached from the human race - like I'm a complete reject. When I contemplate joining some kind of group or activity, I dread going amongst other people to whom I am a stranger. I can force myself, but it takes time to get to know others. It takes patience. It's like you gotta invest today to reap a reward sometime in the distant future. I need to feel some easing up of misery now. That's not going to happen.

Talking about where I'm at, mentally, just makes me feel more miserable. I thought I was doing the right thing, when I finally made an appointment last month to tell my primary doctor that I'm not doing well. He didn't seem to take me too seriously. No one ever does. I think I come across as too competent to be falling apart inside. I'm starting to regret saying anything to anyone.

I wish I could take a more positive attitude. It's wrong to be negative about everything. All I look forward to is falling asleep at night. Constantly, I wonder if this will ever end, short of me dropping dead.

I'm afraid to tell the psychologist how bad this is. I figure he'll just look down on me as someone looking for pity.

[ScarletPimpernel]

To me, what you are describing is someone who has "high functioning" depression.

I can relate. Most people don't see my symptoms, though it's mostly because I try to act like they're not there. But the few people who really know me, know.

Most my non-psych doctors don't make a big deal out of my mental health. I can tell my primary I have SI, and he will just slide right by that. I've even had a neuro-psychologist tell me that I can't have BPD because I'm too nice.

As for what to do: keep trying. That's all you can do. Whatever route you take. I hope the new psychologist works out. Maybe try meds again? They have better ones now.

[Therapy reviewed]

I use to imagine running out in front of traffic on my morning walk to work.. The feeling of desperation I felt inside was suffocating... A counselor at the treatment centre said he couldn't help me anymore but was Making an enquiry to a respected psychoanalysis to see if she would help me... I sat waiting to hear back from him with clenched fists and tears desperate for help!!
I begin to see this psychoanalysis, many times thumping her couch saying "this isn't helping me" and she'd sit and offer a gentle smile which would make me feel worse... Over the months I didn't feel the need to thump, just protest "this isn't helping me" and T would offer her gentle smile then I don't know when but even the protests stopped.. That's the short version of my lonnnng fight to feel better... But I did over the many years with her and I still do now...

[Rose76]

So now the psychologists are wanting to stick "neuro" in front of their title. I guess we're supposed to be impressed at how scientific that is supposed to makes them sound. I noticed psychiatrists doing that back 20 years ago. With either group, a lot of what they do is not all that science-based.

The kind of support that would help me is probably not available. I'm probably just spinning my wheels by going to these people. I just felt desperate enough to try anything.

When it comes to diagnosing, a lot of it is based on their subjective feelings about you. A doctor who likes you is liable to come up with a different diagnosis than one who finds you off-putting. I went to a lot of them over the years, and a few of them didn't care much for me. Their diagnosis and advice would reflect that. So a diagnosis, either given or withheld, is to be taken with a large grain of salt. That's been my conclusion, after getting vastly different diagnoses from different pdocs.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Just a note: a neuro-psychologist is different from a psychologist. A neuro-psychologist is more like a neurologist, and is more focused on physical brain disorders than psych disorders. Least that's what I understand. Maybe someone else can describe it better?

I only needed to see him twice and that was to rule out any neurological problems. They did find that I did have cognitive impairment, but they don't know from what.

[Rose76]

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

Just a note: a neuro-psychologist is different from a psychologist. A neuro-psychologist is more like a neurologist, and is more focused on physical brain disorders than psych disorders. Least that's what I understand. Maybe someone else can describe it better?

I only needed to see him twice and that was to rule out any neurological problems. They did find that I did have cognitive impairment, but they don't know from what.

It seems to be the trend that clinicians want to characterize psychiatric problems as forms of physical brain dysfunction. Psychologists used to be the ones holding out against "the medicalization of problems of living." That's what one psychologist said to me. So I'm surprised at the emergence of "neuro-psychologists."

Well, I just googled "neuropsychology" and it did correspond with what you explained. Giving it a little more thought, I can kind of see the point of having a specialty with that focus.

I got frustrated years back when doctors wanted to just push meds on me, like I had a diseased brain. I believed my problem was rooted in difficulty with interpersonal relations, which kept me socially isolated. Drugs really don't address that. I had hoped that, at least, the meds might lessen some of the psychological pain. They didn't.

There are ways to use chemical compounds to relieve psychic pain. It's called drug abuse. That's why people take dope and drink too much. They do it to temporarily ease their pain. It works. But then it exacts a price, which makes it a bad solution.

I have a prescription for Vicodin, which is an opioid I take twice a day. If I were to take a few extra ones right now, I could feel a lot better than I'm feeling. But then I would run out of tablets before I was due for a refill. Running out can lead to bad distress.

I realize that no doctor is going to prescribe me more opioid to treat the pain of depression. Benzodiazepines can ease psychological pain, but doctors are not going to give me any of those because they don't like to order benzos for anyone on an opioid . . . unless you're a hospice patient. There are some other pharmaceuticals that are supposed to kick in quick, like Ketamine. But I don't know how to qualify for something like that. It seems like doctors just aren't going to think I need any aggressive treatment. I'll show up for appointments and keep walking out with nothing.

I feel like saying "Give me something that really helps, or I'm going to die. I can't keep on like this." That might just get me locked up, which would be of no help.

[ScarletPimpernel]

There's an article on psychology today that talks about how Lithium and Ketamine together help treatment resistant depression. Maybe look into that? I personally am interested in Lithium as my pdoc told me it actually heals trauma in the brain. And that's what my therapist tells me: that all the trauma I've been through has actually damaged my brain. I would love to try and see if my brain can be healed and maybe I won't need my psych meds and could reduce therapy.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

Just a note: a neuro-psychologist is different from a psychologist. A neuro-psychologist is more like a neurologist, and is more focused on physical brain disorders than psych disorders. Least that's what I understand. Maybe someone else can describe it better?

I only needed to see him twice and that was to rule out any neurological problems. They did find that I did have cognitive impairment, but they don't know from what.

Cognitive impairment? Are you sure it’s accurate? I know many, and I mean many, people with CI, both mild and moderate, and none can ever write like you do. You do not write like any person with CI whatsoever. It’s shocking to me.

As about “from what” one might have it. Most people with CI are born this way and there’s no causation. I just have hard time believing it’s a correct diagnosis

[divine1966]

Totally random thought, Rose, but have you thought of not traditional, maybe not Western methods? Acupuncture? Reiki? Yoga? Some type of supplements? Exercise?

I heard good things about acupuncture

[Rose76]

I wish I could talk about this with someone I feel some closeness with. That's risky. I learned long ago that people do not like hearing about a problem that they feel they can't help with.

After my boyfriend died, one of my sisters said she hoped I'ld call her, if I was ever needing support. That sounds good, and she is a giving person. I'm sure she thought it was the right thing to say. But she hates hearing about raw emotion. If I told her I needed a thousand dollars, she would wire it within a day. She would much rather do that than listen to me talk about feeling depressed for five minutes. I don't need a thousand dollars. What I need is intangible. But there's no one I can turn to . . . except here at MSF. The replies above are much appreciated.

I don't even want to call family to whine and moan about how I feel. I just wish I heard more from family. If they called and just chatted about what they were up to and doing, it would be so nice to hear about. Then I would feel connected, which is all I need. Instead, they have demonstrated that their preferred mode of communication is texting or sending the occasional holiday-themed "gif" to my phone. It seems to me that people text, as a way of avoiding having to actually talk to me. I'm not awful to talk with. Yet months go by with nothing but text messages. It feels like an awful rejection. I accept that I'm not someone my sister would choose for a friend, if I wasn't born into the same family. No one chose me for a sister. It's their right not to choose me for a close friend, but they don't have to make it so cruelly obvious. I don't push myself on them. I don't bother anyone or try to take up anyone's time excessively. But I need help badly - the help that comes from being connected to family who keep at least lightly in touch. It would cost so little of their time. I know it's up to me to resolve my emotional problems. I don't believe in dumping on others. It would just mean so much to be able to say that I'm having a tough time and have someone call to say they wondered how I was doing. Instead, I feel like I have to make like everything is fine, or risk getting even further rejected. So I don't dare go making any phone calls.

I did call a warm line that someone told me about. They are nice, but they follow a predictable pattern. It kind of feels like talking to a robot. I was told it was a peer staffed warm line, where calls are taken by persons who have themselves dealt with psych problems. They don't sound like peers. I found out they are paid. They have a supervisor listening to what they say. So the conversations don't feel at all like talking to someone you can really share with. Fifteen years ago, there was a warm line in my area that was good to call. I think they were volunteers. Some were survivors of very serious psych problems, worse than mine. One, at that time, told me that she had been confined in a state psychiatric hospital for a lengthy stay. That told me that I didn't have to explain to her about mental pain. She knew. She was there and came through it. That gets big respect from me.

People who haven't been through a major depressive disorder think they understand everything, but they don't. I don't care if they have a PhD. For years, I've avoided talking to professionals. They get mental calluses from all their exposure to psych patients. Watching other people suffer doesn't enable anyone to know what that suffering feels like. Now and then, I've met a few who were kind and empathetic. But, mostly, I have found them to be coolly aloof, especially the higher up they get.

[Rose76]

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

There's an article on psychology today that talks about how Lithium and Ketamine together help treatment resistant depression. Maybe look into that? I personally am interested in Lithium as my pdoc told me it actually heals trauma in the brain. And that's what my therapist tells me: that all the trauma I've been through has actually damaged my brain. I would love to try and see if my brain can be healed and maybe I won't need my psych meds and could reduce therapy.

Lithium has gotten a lot of interest. I think it's definitely worth a try. I tried it twice. Each time I got severe diarrhea within a week.

They say that studies indicated that lithium reduces suicide. More recently, I have seen where it may help heal brains in persons with traumatic head injuries. Perhaps it can help with damage from psychological trauma.

I would like to try Ketamine. Right now, I don't have a psychiatrist.

[Rose76]

Originally Posted by divine1966

Cognitive impairment? Are you sure it’s accurate? I know many, and I mean many, people with CI, both mild and moderate, and none can ever write like you do. You do not write like any person with CI whatsoever. It’s shocking to me.

As about “from what” one might have it. Most people with CI are born this way and there’s no causation. I just have hard time believing it’s a correct diagnosis

I spent decades working in nursing homes. Every one of them had lots of residents with cognitive impairment. Very, very few of them were born with it. The dementia we see in many of the very elderly is a form of cognitive impairment. Most cognitive impairment is due to strokes, atherosclerosis, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and other diseases associated with aging. Physical trauma to the head is a cause, as we see with athletes in football and boxing. It certainly can present in infancy, due to problems in utero and ischemia during the birthing ordeal, as well as due to genetic disease.

Dementia is a very serious level of cognitive impairment. Less severe levels of cognitive impairment might not be incompatible with being able to write some coherent prose.

One of my patients was a lovely elderly lady who seemed to be just fine cognitively. She had worked in a girls' boarding school, and she still exchanged letters with students who had attended that school. I couldn't understand why her diagnoses included dementia. One day she mentioned that her hip was a bit sore. I said, "Well, that's probably related to you breaking your hip and getting that hip surgery." She responded, "Did I break my hip?" She had no recollection of falling and needing hip surgery. I'd known her for two years and was utterly shocked that she could not remember breaking her hip. So there are many permutations of cognitive decline, and some are subtle, and some are not readily apparent.

[Rose76]

Originally Posted by divine1966

Totally random thought, Rose, but have you thought of not traditional, maybe not Western methods? Acupuncture? Reiki? Yoga? Some type of supplements? Exercise?

I heard good things about acupuncture

I'm looking into Yoga at a fitness center for seniors over age 50. I just learned about these senior fitness centers that the city operates. I am badly in need of getting more exercise.

I order high quality vitamin, mineral and other supplements on line. Blood work showed me that I needed to reduce some of the B vitamins I was taking.

I do know what is causing my mental state. It's due to social isolation. I know what I need to do about it. I simply have failed to do what I know I should do. Today I failed to even get dressed. I failed to get out of bed at a reasonable hour. I'm failing to make good meals. (Just eating frozen TV dinners and Boost.) I'm failing to brush my teeth twice a day. I'm failing to tidy up in the kitchen and leaving dishes unwashed for days. I haven't vacuumed my place since January.

My sisters don't call me anymore. Not even on Christmas Day, or on my birthday in January. I would rather have died than face this rejection. I don't deserve this. I've lost everyone important to me. I have to rebuild a life from scratch for myself. It's too hard. I'm not strong enough. I've been pulling myself up repeatedly, just to keep falling back down. It has gotten too demoralizing.

[Rose76]

Today has been miserable. I didn't even try to do anything right.

I still have to move all my clocks ahead one hour. I haven't even turned the page on my calendar in the kitchen. This is the worst I've been in almost 4 years.

If I just had someone to stay with me for even half a day. In February, I did hire someone to spend 3 hours helping me. That worked out well. We got my place all straightened out. I felt hugely improved and stayed better for days. Then I unraveled again. This person is a professional organizer, so she is expensive to hire. But it was worth the money. I feel embarrassed to ask her to come back again.

When I have someone with me, I improve a lot. I'd like to hire an ordinary person to just be here for a couple of hours for a day or two. They wouldn't even have to do any work. If someone were here, I could straighten this place out myself. Otherwise I stay in cyber-space and do nothing that needs doing. My income is small, but I could come up with enough to pay someone for a few visits.

That I even want this kind of aid makes me feel like I've deteriorated into a pathetic shadow of who I once was.

[LostOnTheTrail]

It is not wrong to need human connection.
This is why body doubling exists.

I've not tried it, but a friend swears by it.

If you've been accustomed to having someone around, then it's bound to be different if they are no longer present.

I hope you can find a way to ease your guilt over wanting help.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by Rose76

I spent decades working in nursing homes. Every one of them had lots of residents with cognitive impairment. Very, very few of them were born with it. The dementia we see in many of the very elderly is a form of cognitive impairment. Most cognitive impairment is due to strokes, atherosclerosis, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and other diseases associated with aging. Physical trauma to the head is a cause, as we see with athletes in football and boxing. It certainly can present in infancy, due to problems in utero and ischemia during the birthing ordeal, as well as due to genetic disease.

Dementia is a very serious level of cognitive impairment. Less severe levels of cognitive impairment might not be incompatible with being able to write some coherent prose.

One of my patients was a lovely elderly lady who seemed to be just fine cognitively. She had worked in a girls' boarding school, and she still exchanged letters with students who had attended that school. I couldn't understand why her diagnoses included dementia. One day she mentioned that her hip was a bit sore. I said, "Well, that's probably related to you breaking your hip and getting that hip surgery." She responded, "Did I break my hip?" She had no recollection of falling and needing hip surgery. I'd known her for two years and was utterly shocked that she could not remember breaking her hip. So there are many permutations of cognitive decline, and some are subtle, and some are not readily apparent.

I understand situation with dementia and CI due to aging. I was referring to CI in younger people (not due to aging) in response to Scarlet as she is quite young. In my professional experience, most people even with a mild cognitive impairment lack the ability to write as eloquent as she. Not saying they can’t write. Just typically not expressing themselves as well in writing.

But I also have met people who were incorrectly diagnosed with CI, then later that diagnosis was withdrawn-what a horrible situation of a misdiagnosis. That’s why I wonder how accurate it is. I was speaking from my very long professional experience in the field.

But I digress. Didn’t mean to hijack your thread. It was just a comment. I should have kept it to myself. Sorry

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by Rose76

I'm looking into Yoga at a fitness center for seniors over age 50. I just learned about these senior fitness centers that the city operates. I am badly in need of getting more exercise.

I order high quality vitamin, mineral and other supplements on line. Blood work showed me that I needed to reduce some of the B vitamins I was taking.

I do know what is causing my mental state. It's due to social isolation. I know what I need to do about it. I simply have failed to do what I know I should do. Today I failed to even get dressed. I failed to get out of bed at a reasonable hour. I'm failing to make good meals. (Just eating frozen TV dinners and Boost.) I'm failing to brush my teeth twice a day. I'm failing to tidy up in the kitchen and leaving dishes unwashed for days. I haven't vacuumed my place since January.

My sisters don't call me anymore. Not even on Christmas Day, or on my birthday in January. I would rather have died than face this rejection. I don't deserve this. I've lost everyone important to me. I have to rebuild a life from scratch for myself. It's too hard. I'm not strong enough. I've been pulling myself up repeatedly, just to keep falling back down. It has gotten too demoralizing.

What if you pre-pay for a class in the fitness center or community center or whatever other options in the area? Sign up online and pay ahead for how many sessions. If you know you paid already would you be more inclined to go? I know if I plan to just drop in, I’ll never go. If I pay for ten sessions online, I’ll show up to them because I already paid. Some people there do drop ins. I admire them. I have to trick myself into going

Our recreational center has very inexpensive classes and although it’s not a senior center, most people are way over 50 and so are instructors.

Just sign up for that yoga you saw they offer at senior center.

[Rose76]

The yoga class I found is free. A staffer at the center told me I could just show up and join the class.

[Deejay14]

You can do this, Rose!!

[Discombobulated]

Originally Posted by Rose76

The yoga class I found is free. A staffer at the center told me I could just show up and join the class.

That sounds good, you don’t have to commit to booking or paying, so nothing lost if it’s not for you.

Would you feel okay if you tell yourself you’re just going to try it this once and see?