Love in the therapy relationship

My therapist and I have been doing a back and forth journaling thing lately. One of the things that came up after he shared an essay from another therapist (The Love That Dare Not Speak Its Name - Dr. Keely Kolmes) was that I had some feelings about the fact that he would never tell me he loves me. He was curious what it would mean to me to hear him say that. One of the things he said in his response really got stuck in my head and I don't know what exactly I'm feeling about it besides hurt and maybe rejected. He said "the love we feel for each other is very different". Everything else he said was lovely but this is what stuck with me and I started feeling really ashamed that I'd shared these thoughts with him. I wrote of the shame and that I didn't want to talk about it any more.

I thought I would just put that phrase aside and carry on. I know he cares about me and I do think he feels love for me, so I'm not sure why it's bugging me so much. I had also journaled about some other things before we swapped notebooks again, but the only thing he addressed was the love thing. Again he said some lovely things and that he wants to understand where I'm coming from, there's nothing to feel ashamed about, etc. But again he said "the love we feel for each other is different".

Does he think I'm romantically in love with him? What is so different about my feelings vs his? Why is this bothering me so much? It's making me feel very shut down towards him. It feels so hurtful. Is he aware that it might feel hurtful for him to say that? I'm having the urge to ghost him on our next session.

Looking for some other interpretations or words of wisdom here. I don't know what to do. I'm trying to take in the other things he's saying but I keep getting stuck on this one phrase.

This is just the first thought that popped into my head to describe the difference: it's like the relationship between dog and owner. They both dearly love each other. Yet, the dog can't survive without the owner. The owner can, even if he doesn't like it. The owner will also try to teach the dog to deal with being let alone for a while and dealing with themself, but he will always come back.

It doesn't fit perfectly of course, nor am I saying all of us are dogs, but I think that's one way that you could say T love vs client love probably differs. Different isn't bad, different makes the thing work. I'd not want to imagine my dog thinking it can survive on her own while I'm gone...

I'd get stuck on that too, NP. I don't think he thinks it's romantic at all from what it sounds like. Maybe he wants to focus on it because it does seem to be an important topic for you? I think it'd be good for you to tell him it's hurtful and why. I think it'd help him understand, even if he does get some of the parts. It also sounds like he might want to hold some boundaries while still expressing that he cares deeply for you. Of course if you need space that's always an option, but to me it sounds like some stuff worth working through if you feel up to it.

So, I can really identify with this. Including how painful it can be. (Except that I'm sure Dr. T would never make any sort of comment about "the love we feel for each other" because he wouldn't ever admit to any sort of love toward me.)

Did he explain at all what he said? Because I'm wondering something. You are seeing it as "the love you feel for him is different than the love he feels for you." Is it at all possible that he meant the love felt for each other in therapy (both from you toward him and him toward you) is different from love felt in other areas of life? Like between romantic partners, parent to child, child to parent, friends, etc.

Something else I'd suggest, if you haven't done this already, is to talk about how each of you define "love" in terms of loving another person. In my discussions with Dr. T, I learned that I have a much broader interpretation of "love" than him. Like, I'll tell friends I love them, but he wouldn't (when asked, he said he'd feel that way, but wouldn't share it with them). And I said how I'll tell my guinea pigs I love them (he never said whether he tells it to his pets, but I doubt it). He said how for him, it's reserved for close family members (I assume his parents and siblings at least), his wife, and his son.

And we also talked about our respective definitions of "love" and what I meant when I said it to him. So that could be something to include in the journal or discuss.

I'm sorry you're struggling NP. That phrase would bother me, too.

I like CNS's analogy. The problem with the word 'love' is it has so many meanings. So we all love differently. It just is. The only way to figure out what he meant is to ask him. And it's so hard opening up to a sensitive question that you've already been hurt by.

I also agree with LT about both of you defining love. L and I did that and now we have a shared language of the meaning.

I was thinking something similar to the pet analogy as well, but where I'm something a little less interactive than a dog, like something you keep in a cage.

I think he meant "the way you feel love towards me is different than how I feel love towards you" because he was talking before that about the inherent imbalance in the therapist-client relationship.

I agree maybe defining "love" might be a place to start. I think I'd need to come up with my own definition first.

The only thing L would ever say is "There's a kind of love here". Which honestly meant nothing at all to me.

I wish I had words of wisdom for you but sadly I do not....

To me it has always sounded more like the client is "very attached" or has a great crush than how I would define actual love in most of the descriptions I read about. That doesn't make it bad or lessen the feeling - I just believe therapists play a role - they act and appear very attentive to the client who often has not had that sort of thing and it is compelling. The client never really knows the therapist except in that one role. It is, to me, like people who are attached to celebrities or personalities and become extremely upset when something happens to them - the feelings are real but not actually about the celebrity -more about the imagined parts or the fantasy. I don't think therapists know clients as well as they profess to do either.

I would also find that sentence: "the love we feel for each other is very different" difficult. It seems to state to me that he thinks he knows what your love is, I wonder what he thinks it is, that he’s thinks it’s so different to the love that he has? He may well be right, that the love is different? But perhaps this isn’t a helpful response. If it was a different subject, perhaps he would spend more time seeking to understand what it means to you, what your experience of it is. Perhaps his statement is defensive and protective? Like you say, there may be different ways of interpreting his phrase.

Thanks for everyone's insight. It all helps.

We have a session today. I wrote in my journal verbatim my original post. I haven't yet decided whether I'm going to share it with him or not.

I also met with my NP/prescriber this week. We talk about my life and stuff going on as well as the meds. I've previously talked to him about my relationship and feelings for P so I brought this up with him also. He said "it's not about him but about what he represents for you". While I get the whole transference concept, it doesn't feel to me that this is 100% transference. It feels like he said your feelings are tricking you which just feels invalidating. I know that it is partly that he listens and pays attention to me which is something I apparently crave, but I don't think that's all of it. Maybe I'm just tricking myself into thinking I like P as a real person and he is just some ideal concept. This has all gotten so confusing and I'm still not sure what to make of it all.

I dont think the average or even super client realizes how much a t will smooth over their rough edges expressly for each client. I think i was fortunate that my t let me see glimpses of his real self from time to time, which i found objectionable in the sense of "oh heck no i would not want THAT in my life!" Im just talking about a crude laugh, something like that. Whereas the reparative love that was shown did not contain those rough edges and allowed me to heal, so that i never had to accept those rough edges in my life ever again in order to get love.

I've been doing a lot of thinking about this. What it would have meant for me, if L would have ever just said I love you. Assuming of course she ever actually did feel love. I used to think she did. It used to feel that way. But she'd never say it. I can't help but wonder if she freaking had, even just once, I wouldn't have had to waste so many years and so many thousands of dollars unconsciously continuing trying to make her say it, the same way I unconsciously learned as a child the only way to get my mom to say "i love you" was for me to say it first. Ugh. But I'm probably still just broken enough that it wouldn't have changed anything in a positive way - I'd probably have just kept going and trying to hear it more. Who knows. Moot point now, for me anyway.

I hope the conversation goes well if you share it with him, NP.

I've definitely seen his rough edges from time to time. I think it makes me see him as more of a real person than just this idealized vision I might have of him.

I get the "I love yous". It's not helping right now. There are other things greater than love and I'm learning how true that is. I see her rough edges. I have since early on because she's let me see it. It does help to not put her on a pedestal, but I always lower myself below people. Right now, I'm fighting for my own place. Sorry, a different conversation.

I still think a common language is best. Ex-T never said "love" to me. But when I described my feelings towards her, she said she felt the same. So getting clarity from both sides is the most important. Maybe you do share the same meaning of love? Just different words? Or at the very least, I'm guessing part of it is shared.

Love is such a hard topic...

I hope if you decide to show him, whether today or at some later time, he understands what you're saying and responds well to it.

And I get what you mean about the transference stuff. It seemed like ex-MC put nearly everything I felt onto transference, which could feel invalidating. Like, "No, I am upset with *you*. This isn't about my mom."

But then Dr. T is the opposite, where he doesn't buy into the transference idea so much. So he tends to think everything is about him. Where at times, I have to say to him, "Yes, part of this is about you, but part of why I'm triggered so much now and reacting so strongly is from stuff that happened in the past with someone else."

I think in reality, it tends to be a mix of both, not one or the other. In my case, I think I liked/like ex-MC and Dr. T as people, but there was/is also transference going on. Where if I had met them in another context and was friends with them, I might enjoy hanging out with them, but it wouldn't all be so intense.

I imagine it might be similar for you and P. You've worked with him for a long time, so I suspect it's partly about who he is and not just the role he plays in your life. That you might not react the same way to some other random therapist. That it's in part about your unique relationship with him and how the two of you interact.

As you know, I've seen plenty of Dr. T's rough edges!

Whereas with ex-MC, he did have a sort of persona with clients, where he was very warm and accepting. A big part of what made my final rupture with him so difficult was that he showed a different side of himself--the rough edges. He crashed down off the pedestal. Dr. T has said to me before that I've never put him on a pedestal, that he's just been on the floor, so he hasn't had far to fall (I said maybe I put him on a low bench).

I don't think it's true that we can't love our therapists, and can only love what they represent to us. Of course we don't know all of them (no one does). And it's probably true that we get the best of them. But I do think we can know our therapists and can genuinely love them for who they are, at least for who they are with us.

My t and i would both say i love you, but never on the same day, and the other person would respond with thank you, and give the corresponding i love you a few days later at an appropriate time.

I dont really know why my family didnt love me. I was so dumb, i wasnt even aware they felt that way. I have some ideas now as to why they didnt - my brother didnt want a baby sister, and my mother didnt want to upset my brother, and my father didnt want to upset my mother. So as they say, sht rolls downhill! Darn those immigrants anyway.

I agree with all of this.

Once, after a very comforting session, I told my analyst I loved him. He replied that he loved me too. He asked me a few times, when I could accept his love. I know it doesn't mean anything sexual, but I like when he tells me he loves me. He gave me a big hug last session and I've never felt so safe and cared for.

This perspective which I know is shared by so many therapists really bugs me. Yes alot of it likely has something to do with who or what he represents for you and is based on feelings from the past BUT some of it can also be based very much on feelings from the present. Almost every relationship we enter even our romantic relationships is often a mix of both of these things and often it can be difficult to see where one starts and the other ends. I've often gone around in circles with my T on this when she would always try to bring me back to it being about feelings from the past. For so long we were stuck gooing around and around. I needed her to validate that some of the feelings were based on the here and now. I have seen her rough edges and also believe my feelings are about her/ at least the her that shows up in the room which is a part of her. Is she likely way less patient, attentive and caring in her real life. Yes likely but that does not mean she is not caring. Once she acknowledged my present day feelings we were able to move forward. It's like I could leave them there knowing they had been heard and THEN could explore where some of it was about the past