Struggling with my therapist's pregnancy Part 2

I think today's session was good? I didn't get stuck freeze. We talked about our mother/daughter roles and how it's like my trauma with my siblings is triggering my issues I'm having with her children. I also fear favoritism. She says there is no competition for her heart. That I have my own space. She also told me she doesn't rank her feelings and multiple can coexist at once like her joy for her pregnancy and the sorrow for my griefs and losses. We also cried at the realization that because I'll never have children, in old age, there will be no one to care for me or even visit me. I don't remember the rest of the session, but that was the main gist.

That's sounds good to me Scarlett.

Thanks for the new thread, scarlet. Sorry im such a weenie about things

It's okay, Una. I understand. The title was a little much (fit how I felt when I started it). And the thread needed a refresh.

Had another session today. Barely remember it. We talked about a dream I had and that became the symbolism for the entire session. We talked about if she had ever had to depend on someone she was in a rupture with. We talked about how hopelessness is just a feeling, not a fact (which kind of feels like she's minimizing it). We also talked a little bit about power: I have the power to destroy her career and she has the power to destroy my life. Not sure how that came up, but it felt a little intense for me. I also know I pulled away from her today, so something must have hurt bad. But otherwise, I don't remember anything else.

Hugs, Scarlet. Is it possible that her comment about your power to destroy her career could have been part of what made you pull away? That's definitely an intense statement.

I ask because I know that with Dr. T, when he reminds me I'm part of his job and only his professional life, that can be really difficult for me.

Also, there's an implied imbalance there: that she could destroy your life, but, in what she said, you'd be destroying her career. Which is part of her life, but not all of it.

And I'd also feel like "hopelessness is a feeling, not a fact" is minimizing. Even if she didn't mean it that way.

To be honest, there's four things upsetting about the "power" statement. 1. What you said, LT. She can destroy my whole life whereas I can only destroy a (big) aspect of hers. 2. I want no such power over anyone not even an enemy. 3. What are the parts of our relationship that could end her career? If she was 100% professional and ethical then I wouldn't have such power. True? I don't have that power over T. 4. I wonder if either "power" keeps her trapped in our relationship.

I truly don't know why I pulled away. Normally, I only do a little bit, but today I literally moved away from her. She got me to calm down and move back. I wish my memory of words worked.

Thank you for understanding how I feel about hopelessness being minimized to a feeling. Part of what I think she was saying was that just because I feel hopeless doesn't mean we are hopeless. But it doesn't mean it's not true either. There could be no hope for us. Sometimes, a lot of times, I think I'm being delusional for keep trying. I think she might be delusional too. Or trapped?

Is the idea that your life would be destroyed without her something with which she agrees? I don't have a sense of whether that is your interpretation of and response to the relationship or if that is something which she also recognises. You obviously don't need to answer if you prefer not, but I am asking because where she positions herself in that interpretation seems really significant.

I don’t believe she has a power to destroy your life. It sounds a bit much. You have more in your life than your t. How does she get so much power

Not sure how you can destroy her career either.

I am not sure what purpose such conversations serve except keeping you stressed out and attached.

Not sure how she’s trapped in this relationship. Like you mean she can’t drop you as a client without being accused of abandoning you?

I can understand the "trapped" fear. For example, my T has told me before "I can't ethically abandon you," which includes (from what he's said) termination without very clear cause--he's said I'd have to do something like assault him or threaten his life (he's said that's the only time he unilaterally terminated a client).

So I've asked him before (a couple times) whether he's felt "trapped" with me, like he's stuck with me unless/until I decide to leave. He's reassured me that he's never felt trapped or stuck.


I imagine that's what it's about for you, Scarlet?

I guess it's like people only have power over you because you give it to them?

Yes, what LT and Divine said. I don't think she feels she can ethically terminate me. But then again, according to her answer, she doesn't feel trapped. So I was wrong. Now I'm not sure how I have power over her to end her career.

And I guess the flip side is wrong, too. How does she have the power to destroy my life unless I let her? If I was to kill myself because she left me, that would be my choice, not hers.

We also have been talking a little about end of life. I know if she passed away, I would not harm myself. The opposite, really. It would be hard, but I would feel it's necessary to continue on and not waste our work together.

I think there are many ethical ways to terminate. Many reasons for one to leave their job

If she decides not to return to work to care for her children full time, or if she all together quits her job, change her career path, goes back to school, if she moves out of the area, if her family needs her, heck if she develops health problem or becomes independently wealthy or need a better paid job because she becomes a single parent.

No one can force anyone to work forever even in the caring career path.

She does need to offer resources and send referrals. But she can’t be obligated to maintain her clients for life. I know it’s hard to accept that it’s a job, not just a relationship.

She’s not trapped because working this job is her choice. But she could make a different choice. It’s not against the law as long as it’s done properly

Divine, I agree with all of those examples. They're very true. I'm not sure how she thinks I have power over her career though. I was just trying to guess.

Could you ask? It sounds a bit manipulative further to say that. I mean some people careers are in jeopardy when people make baseless accusations. But it’s not like you plan on doing that.

I could ask, yes. I probably will because I'd really like to know.

No. I've already told her that even if she abandons me, literally abandons me like ex-T for no reason, I still wouldn't report her to the board like I did with ex-T. The board didn't listen to me then, and I have no desire to harm her. H on the other hand, has already threatened to call the board on her out of anger. I do know she's afraid that if I ever killed myself under her care, he would file a complaint. But I asked him not to because again, if I harm myself, that is my choice.

I don't wish people harm. Even my dad and sister, everything they put me through, I wish them no harm.

You are a kind person, Scarlett. You had an experience with abandonment and nothing came out of it. It’s really hard to prove even if you wanted to report.

Your H is a bit over the top. What’s he reporting her for, getting pregnant?

I don’t think she’s afraid. As long as everything is documented and she has notes of sessions, complaint will not lead to anything. It’s uncomfortable though. So maybe it’s not fear but no one wants to deal with complaints against them. It’s a hassle

Want to clarify what I said, in light of your comments here. These weren't the sorts of things my T was talking about in terms of termination. I'd understand any of these things that happened--well, I might struggle with them, but I told ex-T at one point, who was in her early 70s, that I wouldn't consider retirement abandonment. Same if a T were to move. Or had to stop seeing clients temporarily or permanently due to their own health condition or that of a family member, Or if they changed careers.

I was thinking more in terms of, if my T were to continue working, in the same location, seeing the same sorts of clients. But where would tell me specifically, individually, that he was no longer willing to serve as my therapist. And that it was unilateral and non-negotiable. (Not like, "You need a higher level of care; later, when you're in a better place, you can see me again.")

Just wanted to clarify that.

I've thought about the situation with ex-T over the years. How she did the termination was wrong. And I do see it as abandonment. Just throwing the first 3 dbt therapist on psychology today does not count as legitimate referrals (imo). Anyways, I've come to realize that she actually did me a favor. Whatever the reason she left me, she didn't want me. It would have been worse if she felt trapped into treating me. I wouldn't want to continue to be vulnerable with someone who didn't want me.

I think that's why I'm feeling sensitive about this "power" conversation. Because if she did feel trapped (which she says she doesn't), I wouldn't want her to stay.

I've always believed the saying that goes something like: if you love someone, set them free. They will come back to you if it's meant to be. I never want someone trapped with me or feel obligated to or responsible for me.

Had another session. Cried a ton. But it was good. We're trying to help me hold onto her love for me. I do okay for awhile after an interaction, but then the doubt creeps in and I feel so far away from her. I think if I could just hold it, I could move forward better. At the very least, if I can, I want to move forward. I just don't know if I can. The betrayal feelings, doubt and pain are so big. But I do want my relationship back with her.

I am also having problems holding the both/and. L who loves me AND L who hurt me deeply. Wanting to be free of suffering AND not wanting relief because I feel it invalidates my pain. I need to hold all these things at the same time. I also need to somehow forgive. I know she didn't do this to me, but her (poor) choices have deeply impacted and triggered me. I need to find empathy for her for why she made her choices. And I need/want to find joy for her. I have none right now. The pain eclipses everything.

I'm trying. It's so hard for me. So much of my past and own issues are triggered by this. If she just would have made a different choice, if it would have happened the way we planned, I wouldn't be in as much pain. Sure, every time she'll get pregnant affects me in multiple ways. But getting pregnant on accident just triggers me in many more ways.

I only have 5 months left... I don't think I can work through this in time.

Hey Scarlet,

I'm sorry you're struggling so much with this.
It makes sense in light of everything.

I know it is hard to feel as though you have a time limit.
All you have to do is one day at a time.

Hugs,

Lost

Try to think of her pregnancy as a gift not as a mistake (if you are religious you can think G-d or think of universe or nature if you aren’t).

I’d try to not fixate on the fact that her pregnancy is accidental. So many people are conceived in accident. It’s not unusual or wrong (especially since it’s conceived in marriage and not her mindlessly sleeping around) . Is there any way you can redirect your thinking. Some people might say this kind of thinking of unborn child as a mistake or betrayal sends bad message to the universe.

Would it help to think of it as a human being not as a symbol of something bad and negative. You state her pregnancy had to happen “the way WE planned”. But that’s not hers and your pregnancy, it’s hers and her husband’s. You cannot plan her pregnancy. You could hope for certain outcome. But that’s about it. Something with this line of thinking just isn’t helpful to you.

Is she encouraging this line of thinking? It can’t be good for her pregnancy and unborn child to be viewed in this bad light

I should stop read this thread for my own sanity. Not your fault but this is triggering.

Thanks, Lost. I have to remember that: one day at a time. If there was no timeline, it would be easier. But that's all anyone can do is one day. I think it would also be easier if this wasn't a therapeutic relationship. For one, it complicates things. Two, 2-3hrs a week to process things isn't that much time. Then again, if this was a friend, they probably wouldn't put up with me. *sigh* I'm trying.

I understand this might be triggering to some, but you don't need to post that it is or that you're going to stop reading and/or supporting me. That's hurtful and mean. I'm just honestly processing what I'm going through, what I'm feeling, what I'm experiencing. It's not my goal to trigger anyone. Would you rather me be silent and suffer on my own? Maybe there are others out there struggling with their T's pregnancy, too? Maybe something here might help them? Idk. I'm just trying to get through this. I depend on the support of those who wish to be supportive. And I understand that this might be triggering to some. But no one needs to tell me they're leaving. It's just really hurtful especially during a time I'm struggling and do need support.

I agree I shouldn’t tell you that it’s upsetting for me. Most certainly I am not trying to be hurtful or mean though.

I tried to help you for days, weeks, months . I thought I’ve been supportive in every way possible. I didn’t think it was supportive to tell you that yes she betrayed you and your plans by getting pregnant.

I tried to offer you a different perspective. Maybe trying to look at it differently. Sometimes it helps to look at it from unexpected angle. I thought if you think of this is a baby, you can find joy in it. Buy a gift, knit a blanket, write children’s story, draw a picture. If you look at it as a miserable accident and betrayal of you and your plans and needs, then you continue suffering. There’s no joy in it. Life is too short not to look for joy in things.

I am sorry that it’s not helpful to you or unsupportive. I don’t feel that support only means to say things that encourages OP to continue suffering. I don’t enjoy seeing you suffering. Offering different perspective could be of value. Obviously I failed with this. Sorry.

I hope it all works out. You can do it,

I'm sorry!!! I'm not trying to stay in my suffering. I'm not trying to push away support, even different perspectives. I'm not trying to be bad. I'll just stop.