[hangingon]

May Tigger>>>>>>>little about SA

I was wondering how many of you actually observe your T, like movements, reactions ect...

I find myself being vigilant about people reactions. I am pretty good at "discerning" people. You know...... some people just have a vib about them that you see right through. I am sure this vigilence stems from my past abuse as a child. Even as a young child I could sense that about people.

There was once a security guard at a church we were attending when I was young and after being around him for just one day, I knew there was something about him not trustworthy and at that point he never said or did anything to me, it was more a feeling I had. We'll I told my mom about not trusting him and she never listened to me. Invited this guy to our house ect.

He ended up r*ping my little sister for a year, she was 8 years old for goodness sake and he was in his 40's. When my little sister finally told us 3 year later, I was so infurtiated with my mom because I told her I didn't like him. Her response was you were just a kid. (you know like what did you know). My little sister wouldn't have went through that nightmare if my mom had listened, yeah to a kid.

Anyways, for as long as I can remember I have been sensitive to people's mannerisms. It's not like I think about it, or obsess with it, its just there, apart of me. Maybe I became more sensitive because I had been abused by three different people at a very young age.

I notice I do that with my T. When I first get there, she comes out to get me and walks me to her office. Then she sits in her chair relaxed, leaning back. Whenever I am a bit sad, or start to tear up, she will sit forward in her chair. Or sometimes when I share something that shames me, I notice she moves alot in her chair.

I notice this with my school counselor as well. The first time I went to her, she sat right in front of me very close. She even cried though I hadn't, I was holding back. I hadn't even told her my story, just that I was having a difficult time with school that semester. (being a 4.0 student that crushed me). Said she could tell that I was really hurting and that the tears were for me. Now she sits further away. Sometimes that upsets me because I feel like the only reason she sat so close in the beginning was to try to get me to talk or break down. Perhaps that even her tears were a way to make me realize that its ok to cry, which is not a bad thing by any means. I guess I just feel a bit hurt that she sits further away now. Not that I have ever told her this lol....she does still tear up or cry at times when I am crying, or when I am holding back with everything I have in me.

Ok I feel like I am writing a book here. Sorry its so long......
Just want to know if other people here are the same way with the observation of their therapist or if I am really wierd

Hangingon

Hangingon,

I don't think it's weird at all. The therapy relationship is so strange to start with (them knowing all about you, but not vice versa), it's no wonder one would look for clues to what they're thinking in their mannerisms, etc.

I'm sure I do this (when I'm managing to look at my T instead of averting my eyes -- most often when she looks away, is when I study her expressions). I think they know we do this. After a tough session, at the next one, my T will be extra good about making eye-contact and smiling even as I'm walking in, to make sure I know everything is OK.

If you think about it, most of us analyze what our Ts say pretty instensely, it's not really so different to analyze their non-verbal communications as well. I'm sure some people are better at it than others (maybe, like you, they had more practice at an early age due to circumstances forced upon them), but it's all part of communicating with the other person, IMO. Hope this helps.

[hangingon]

When I say that, I don't mean that I look at her face. I more view her from the corner of my eye. However, if I do glance up at her face I will often catch her smile, sometimes I smile back a little other times I look away.

When I am talking, its very rare for me to look at her. Sometimes when I am trying to avoid something I will look at her more and act goofy, smile more ect, like put on a show.

[(JD)]

It's part of "hyper vigilance." I think once you feel safer with her, and work at looking at her when you can, you can get through this. Face to face discussions really are good!

[chaotic13]

"hyper vigilance"... I hadn't see this term used before but I like it.
Hangingon ... again I don't have any important contribution to make other than... your not alone!

[SpottedOwl]

((hangingon))

I know exactly what you are talking about.

When I first started with my T, I noticed that he would move his chair 10 minutes before the session was over. I *assumed* it was his kind way of telling me to 'wrap it up.'

After several months of noticing this and keeping it to myself, I took the risk and told T one day. He was so surprised. No, he was not trying to tell me to 'wrap it up' -- in fact T was not even aware he was doing it!

I often think it is silly to mention things like this in therapy, but my experience has told me it can be very helpful to mention those things. It has made my relationship with T stronger, and it has helped me not be so on-edge interpreting non-verbal signals.

It is *totally normal* to be hyper-vigilant if you have experienced a trauma in your life. It does not mean there is anything wrong with you, but it can be exhausting to be so on guard all the time.

I hope you can talk about this with your T, and learn that sometimes it is ok to let those walls down.

[RiverX]

I do ID with this, I'm acuterly reactive to unspoken agendas, and I'm really struggling right now with this issue. I feel suspicious of being manipulated, the goal posts moving with no acknowledgement, and hanging on there expensively, ... keep going back, trying to get what I need....

This is very familiar to me too. I am way hyper-vigilant in every interaction I have, every store I go into, etc. etc. It carries over into T.

One thing T does, that he has verbalized to me, is he will tell me *exactly* what he is thinking, why he is doing something, etc. if I am brave enough to ask. He knows it is completely crazy-making if I feel like his words don't match his body language, or expression, or whatever.

Even with that, and even with the huge amount of trust I've built with T (most of the time!) I am still absolutely tuned in to his every move, expression, etc.

It's exhausting to live like this. May we ALL heal and learn to live with more peace inside!

[RiverX]

......... and sorry to neglect to mention the important part of your story too....
its as you found out dangerous not to be listened to, never mind how unheard you must have felt...
...... something else was being treated as more important than what is actually important.....

well done for trying and for your good instincts back then..

[Mouse_]

Yes I do this. I think it goes to show that its not just what a person says, its what a person does that matters...also T moves very slowly and gently, if she uncrosses her legs or crosses them she kind of does it in slow motion,...I now realise how important movements are ...they show respect in themselves...

Originally Posted by Mouse_

.also T moves very slowly and gently, if she uncrosses her legs or crosses them she kind of does it in slow motion,...I now realise how important movements are ...they show respect in themselves...

This reminded me that T always warns me if he is going to make a big move...like "I'm going to get up now to get the appointment book" or whatever. They must be very used to dealing with hyper-vigilant people!

[skeksi]

My T gives me warnings like that, too! The fact that he is so careful with me about noises and movements really means a lot to me.

[hangingon]

Wow, my T does not warn me about when she is going to move ect. I find it interesting that alot of yours do.
Im starting to think that perhaps mine has not dealt with alot of people with PTSD. I asked her one time, something to the effect of I need to know that I am in good hands. That she has done this stuff before, she assured me I was.

Hangingon

[chaotic13]

Originally Posted by earthmama

He knows it is completely crazy-making if I feel like his words don't match his body language, or expression, or whatever.

I think my T knows this also. One advantage I think I gain from this hyper vigilance, is that between sessions when my mind starts to question my T's sincerity or I start thinking those negative thoughts about our interaction... I can recall these little details and use them to try and correct my paranoia.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by hangingon

Anyways, for as long as I can remember I have been sensitive to people's mannerisms. It's not like I think about it, or obsess with it, its just there, apart of me.

I do agree, hypervigilance often accompanies PTSD. I am hypervigilant too. But I also think that some people are just more sensitive and observant than others, and this is not always related to trauma. Are women in general more sensitive like this than men? I do know that my H and some other men I know are totally oblivious to all these little clues I can read. But I do know men who are more observant also. I am reading this book right now called The Female Brain, and it talks about this greater sensitivity and powers of observation in women. They speculate women may have evolved that way due to the need to "read" their infants and children and detect their needs quickly and accurately. I am very, very sensitive to tone of voice, slight body language, everything. I think of it as a gift. Maybe it has been heightened due to past trauma, but I find it very useful. My T, a male, is very sensitive this way too.

I was wondering how many of you actually observe your T, like movements, reactions ect...

Yes, absolutely, I do this. I am very attuned to him.

[hangingon]

Well, I haven't had children of my own yet, but have cared for my siblings a lot, and have taken care of babies for 14 years, does that count for instincs lol..

I have actually always been very sensitive to things. Have had friends say how did you know that about that person ect. I can't explain how, I just observe people in that way without even realizing it.

If I were to read my T, I would say that she has been through abuse, though she hasn't shared that with me. She reminds me of me in a sense, that she is a very kind person, but may not be able to connect on a deeper level herself.....so she remains at a very professional level. Seriously... I mean no emotion shown by her at all. She talks and acts the same EVERY time I see her. Could I be wrong? Sure, thats just my observation of her in that past 10 months.

I can be very empathetic with children but with adults I hold back, I think in fear of having that connection and then being abandoned. I mean inside I feel emotions for adults when I see they are hurting ect but I don't always act on those emotions.

Hangingon

[velcro003]

Hangingon, I've had the same worries about mine as well. I briefly thought about maybe quitting, but I never did because I knew that a lot of it is my own struggle with being there.

My T acts pretty much the same every time too, and especially in the beginning, I wondered if she really cared at all about me, or if I was just another patient. She too is very professional, but over time this has been more and more soothing to me. She just quietly accepts whatever I say, and has let me move at my own pace even if I'm frustrated with it.

I think most of it for me has been MY perception of how I think she's feeling, when really I have no clue as I've never asked. I made a HUGE step last session by printing out and reading a journal entry I wrote...and it took me 40 minutes to read to her. Until last week (I've been going close to 11 mos), I haven't been able to connect to any feelings that have happened. I just shrug and go "I don't know", "Thats just how it is, I can't change it" and things like that.

This journal entry I wrote and somehow managed to read was all about how being emotional is equal to being vulnerable to me, and being vulnerable means I can so easily be shattered. I sat in there staring at that paper for almost the entire session like it had an evil entity. I rambled on about random things that she listened to, and she went "I am in no rush"...and did it with about 5 minutes left.

ANYWAY---the reason why I'm telling this, is because right now I'm going every two weeks due to lack of insurance/$$. I was about to leave when she goes, "I would feel better if you come in next week. And don't burn that paper, bring it in again" haha. I took a huge risk in reading that, and it was so ridiculously difficult, and not only did she not rebuff me, she said "Come back sooner!" I take this as caring, but I also had to let myself out there for her too.