[searchingmysoul]

I had T today and talked about feeling attached. Attached to her and more invested in the process. I talked about how vulnerable I feel in this. How I haven't had much experience with being vulnerable and not getting hurt. How I was profoundly shaken recently by this attachment to her (because of a recent incident that we talked about at the time). I also said that talking about the feeling of attachment is confusing and disorienting to me.

She talked about how she is not planning on leaving, how she would never just stop seeing me, would do "no harm" to me.

And then I said: "What I really want to hear is that you are attached to me too"...

She said some kind of distanced therapy speak about "I care about your well being", "I care about your being here and how this affects you". And: "I am not attached to you in the way you have been researching" (I had stated that I had been researching theories on attachment and the therapeutic relationship.)

She then asked me how I felt about what she had said...

I said "I feel sad. Sad that I just said 'I am attached to you' and you said 'well, I care about your well being' ". Sad because this is so...whatever it is, ridiculous, maybe?

She went on to say how she interprets my need to talk about attachment as a re-enactment of my childhood pain. That I expect that she will abandon me, hurt me, etc.

This I could not deny. I have to admit that I do, in my core, believe that this will be like that...Especially the deeper I get in telling my story...

So, I said that I didn't deny this and this will probably continue to be a theme for me for awhile...(Indefinately maybe?)

The conversation shifted to how I think there needs to be a support group for people who go through therapy...To which she agreed...Then on to some other stuff I have been discussing...

BAH!!!! What am I doing?!? When we have a session like this, one where I bring in a specific thing that I have been obsessing over, it is always so disconnected and disjointed...All I could think about after was how silly I feel for even bringing it up.

Some days I feel like therapy is like hitting my head against a wall....

Sorry if this is really confusing...I just need to process it somewhere...

[deliquesce]

i would feel sad if i had that response too. i think you are brave, not silly. i wouldn't have the guts to ever admit what you did to my pdoc.

[searchingmysoul]

Originally Posted by deliquesce

i would feel sad if i had that response too. i think you are brave, not silly. i wouldn't have the guts to ever admit what you did to my pdoc.

Thank you...Your kind words brought up my tears....

I also think you were brave, Searching. I'd rather not say a thing than take the chance of being rejected.

I'm not sure what her statement meant about not being attached as in your research? On the other hand, it sounds like she did say that she cared about you. That's something and has to feel a little good?

I think that question you asked is at the heart of a lot of the therapeutic relationship angst. How can it possibly help to get so attached, only to be ultimately rejected, to be told it's one-sided? Why would anyone voluntarily put themselves in that position? I would feel sad too if I felt that's what happened.

This may or may not be helpful to you, but I've been reading something by John Briere that talks about the therapist's need to give just the right amount of contact with the client. It's a little technical, and I'm still working on digesting it, but it's basically about the therapeutic relationship acting as a really effective trigger to bring out issues that need to be dealt with. One point I found interesting is that it says that too much therapeutic intervention could have a detrimental effect on the client's trauma processing. Maybe that's why Ts are so hesitant to say much more than I care about your well being, etc.?

"...the titration is to the level of contact with the therapist. In this regard, the clinician is careful to be neither too close (running the risk of triggering instrusion and boundary violation issues, as well as, paradoxically, reinforcing some clients' dependency needs) nor too distant (potentially triggering abandonment or rejection issues). Finally, the therapist must monitor his or her behavior for evidence of his or her own activated relational schema (e.g., punitivenss or rescuing behavior) in response to the client's schema-related behavior, since such 'countertransference' would eliminate the disparity requirement for trauma processing."

http://johnbriere.com/stm.htm

I don't know -- I think it sort of gets to the idea that maybe they're not trying to reject, so much as maintain an approach that will be most likely to push the client toward growth? I don't know. It seems like a fine line to me.

[sunrise]

That sounds like a really painful session. You were very brave. I'm not sure I would be able to go back if that happened.

She went on to say how she interprets my need to talk about attachment as a re-enactment of my childhood pain.

This sounds very distancing to me, like she is trying to make it not about her to make herself feel better. It can't be comfortable to sit there with a client expressing feelings she doesn't reciprocate, so she tries to make it not about her but about people from your past. I think many therapists would have done the same thing. I guess many are scared to admit the client's feelings about them are "real".

The conversation shifted to how I think there needs to be a support group for people who go through therapy...

Sad, but true. Quite the industry. Then what? A group for people who go to support groups about therapy? And on forever...

I wonder, what if your therapist had acknowledged the depth of your feeling and said something like this instead: "It sounds like you feel deeply partnered to me. Thank you. I am honored." And then leaned forward in her chair in that special move therapists have, and made you feel she cared rather than saying "I care about your well being." Would that have been any better? (Honestly, would it have killed her to say "I care about you" instead of "I care about your well being"?)

searching, I'm sorry you didn't get what you needed from that session. It made me sad too.

[ECHOES]

Oh I think you are very brave to have said all those things. Exploring this further with her should be really interesting.

It is hard to hear T define her side of the caring relationship. I admire your T's willingness to be completely honest and direct. It says to me that she is someone who can be trusted to be honest, who genuinely cares, who is secure in her own self, who is sturdy and can be leaned on without worry that one is too much.

She cared about how you felt about what she said and made sure you had the opportunity to talk about that right in the moment. I admire you for being in touch with your feelings in the moment.

Attachment (and separateness) are very early developmental issues and are fascinating to explore. You have a great T to do that with.

Yes, we expect to happen what has happened. Sometimes we attempt to make it happen because it feels so familiar.

Last week in a difficult session, my T said, "What happened in the past will happen here." Blunt, yeah, but straightforward and I appreciate that. And I think she meant it to convey that I don't need to hide, or censor, or 'perform'... I can just 'be'. That is very calming to me.

I think it sounds like you had a really great session.

[phoenix7]

I think your T was honest with you - it must be hard for them knowing when and where to draw the line - I know its hard for us too - I am hoping that your T made the encvironment feel safe enough for you so that you could voice those thoughts - if so I am glad you have found a safe place. I know it hurts but it can get better P7

[sittingatwatersedge]

I agree with everything Sunrise said (don't faint Sunny )

just a thought... it's true we want our Ts to become attached to us; but if they do, then who is to be the designated driver? Ts go into "the helping profession" because they are caring people; they'e human beings, with human feelings, but they also have the strict obligation to keep their eyes on the road at all times - and that is for your good.

Working through extremely personal issues with someone who cares about your wellbeing, however clumsily that was expressed, is not a bad thing. Some people on PC may tell you about mothers or fathers who did not care about their child's wellbeing, and all of the "I love you"'s that they got from that parent were probably weighed & seen for what they were.

I'm so glad you were so open to talk w/T about this; that IS brave and is important. My T said that this work doesn't progress in a straight line; we circle back and circle back... so try not to get frustrated with it. You are doing well!!! hugs

((((((((((((((((((((((((searchingmysoul))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Someone posted something on here about attachment. I don't know where it was, but there were 4 components to it....I remember "want to return to the attachment object for comfort" being one of the things, and there were three others.

So, perhaps she is being honest about the really technical definition of attachment...but that doesn't mean that she doesn't care about you, or that it's not okay for you to be attached to her. I know my T cares about me very much, but I am positive I'm not his "attachment object"...and that's probably good. I need him to be there, to be solid and steady and caring and receptive, so I can come and rely on him to be strong and objective and caring and not get lost in my "stuff". There was a time when he got kind of lost in my "stuff" and he was way less helpful than he is when he remains objective. I realized I need him to be my "therapist" more than anything else.

((((((((((((((((((((searching)))))))))))))))))))) I'm sorry your session was painful. You were brave to ask what you did. I hope it's something you can keep exploring with T.

[chaotic13]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

it's true we want our Ts to become attached to us; but if they do, then who is to be the designated driver?

I kind of agree. I think part of me wants my T to be attached to me, but another part says...No I want her to show empathy, compassion,understanding, but still remain above the fray. I need to know that she is outside the drama. Its kind of a conflicting issue for me.

My T on several occasions has stated the "I will not deliberately harm you" affirmations. I feel kind of childish when I hear her stay it or when she writes it...put in a weird kind of way I need to hear that sometimes.

[peaches100]

Searching,

I understand your disappointment at not hearing the words that you wanted to hear. But remember that her experience of "not feeling attached in the same way as you have been researching" does not mean she does not have any kind of attachment feelings with you. A person may not feel the same way toward us that we feel toward them, but their caring may be equally strong. Her position in the therapeutic relationship is as your t, so she is going to experience the relationship differently. This is not a bad thing. She definitely cares about how you are doing and wants to help you be well. Try not to let what she didn't say ruin what she did say. Allow her words of caring rest gently on your heart.

[Sannah]

Searching, you did good bringing this stuff up! Some have already talked about this already, that your T cannot attach to you like a relationship IRL. She needs to stand apart a bit so that she can be your T. If she is involved with you it wouldn't be pretty, it would be harmful to you (boundary violations, etc.).

[searchingmysoul]

First- Thank you all so much- seriously, the support is amazing!

Originally Posted by notme9

I'm not sure what her statement meant about not being attached as in your research? On the other hand, it sounds like she did say that she cared about you. That's something and has to feel a little good?

I think that question you asked is at the heart of a lot of the therapeutic relationship angst. How can it possibly help to get so attached, only to be ultimately rejected, to be told it's one-sided? Why would anyone voluntarily put themselves in that position?

I don't know -- I think it sort of gets to the idea that maybe they're not trying to reject, so much as maintain an approach that will be most likely to push the client toward growth? I don't know. It seems like a fine line to me.

Notme9- Thank you! Yeah, I was a little bit confused by the research peice- I just took it to mean the intensity of my attachment (as the client) is not what the intensity of the attachment of the therapist.

I bolded the part that really rings true for me about this...I am processing about some really horrible things in Th. I guess I want a little assurance that when these things are shared my T will not turn away from me. While logically I KNOW it is her job to be there for me. Internally, my heart does not believe this. It is as if in sharing I am certain that she will be as repulsed as I am...

Oh and I LOVE Briere! I have his book about trauma therapy and have been reading through it to try to understand my experience...

Originally Posted by sunrise

That sounds like a really painful session. You were very brave. I'm not sure I would be able to go back if that happened.

Honestly, would it have killed her to say "I care about you" instead of "I care about your well being"?

searching, I'm sorry you didn't get what you needed from that session. It made me sad too.

Thank you Sunrise! You know, sometimes I think T's just miss the important stuff sometimes. What I really needed to hear at that time was exactly what I said- that she is attached to me, that I matter- in essence that she cares about ME not just my well-being. And honestly, it wasn't the response but the distance in the response that was unnerving. And different. Something that I love about my T is how real (not inapproriatly real) she is with me. This was one of those times I needed real and got distance. This has happened before...and has klead to some very healing things for me. Sometimes I feel like the intensity of what I put out there catches her off guard and I get a canned response not what would actually be therapeutically helpful. (And I do think hearing that she cares about me would be therapeutically helpful.)

Originally Posted by ECHOES

....Exploring this further with her should be really interesting.

It is hard to hear T define her side of the caring relationship. I admire your T's willingness to be completely honest and direct. It says to me that she is someone who can be trusted to be honest, who genuinely cares, who is secure in her own self, who is sturdy and can be leaned on without worry that one is too much.

Attachment (and separateness) are very early developmental issues and are fascinating to explore. You have a great T to do that with.

....Last week in a difficult session, my T said, "What happened in the past will happen here." Blunt, yeah, but straightforward and I appreciate that. And I think she meant it to convey that I don't need to hide, or censor, or 'perform'... I can just 'be'. That is very calming to me.

I think it sounds like you had a really great session.

Thank you ECHOES! I would agree it was a revealing session for me. How and where this is a core thing for me. I trust my T, and value her honesty and straightfowardness...

I imagine that this will bring about some continued interesting conversations.

about your session last week!

Originally Posted by phoenix7

I think your T was honest with you - it must be hard for them knowing when and where to draw the line -

Thanks P7! Yes, she is very safe. I don't think I could bring this up if I didn't feel safe...That in itself is food for thought, huh?

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

just a thought... it's true we want our Ts to become attached to us; but if they do, then who is to be the designated driver? Ts go into "the helping profession" because they are caring people; they'e human beings, with human feelings, but they also have the strict obligation to keep their eyes on the road at all times - and that is for your good.

I'm so glad you were so open to talk w/T about this; that IS brave and is important. My T said that this work doesn't progress in a straight line; we circle back and circle back... so try not to get frustrated with it. You are doing well!!! hugs

Thank you Sitting! And you are right. I am so flying blind right now. I do need a driver, not someone who is all wrapped up in me.

I agree about the circling piece too...This has not been a straight line at all.. Sometimes I feel over here.......................................and then I am over here the next session. I confuse myself.

Originally Posted by earthmama

So, perhaps she is being honest about the really technical definition of attachment...but that doesn't mean that she doesn't care about you, or that it's not okay for you to be attached to her.

Thank you Earthmama! I hear you. And I agree that it would be unsafe to be her attachment object. That would definitely compromise the relationship. Because attachment is such a broad word I am certain what I was trying to get at was confusing...I was confused, lol.

Originally Posted by chaotic13

I kind of agree. I think part of me wants my T to be attached to me, but another part says...No I want her to show empathy, compassion,understanding, but still remain above the fray. I need to know that she is outside the drama. Its kind of a conflicting issue for me.

My T on several occasions has stated the "I will not deliberately harm you" affirmations. I feel kind of childish when I hear her stay it or when she writes it...put in a weird kind of way I need to hear that sometimes.

Chaotic- Thank you! I agree with the conflicting feelings. I do want her to care deeply, I don't want to be her friend. That I am sure about. I think when these things come up, because they are so emotional it can be hard to have clarity and explain clearly.

And the do no harm stuff just gets me. It made me feel like I am asking for something very innappropriate. However, the line about what is harmful and what isn't is probably blurry and individual. And I get that.

Originally Posted by peaches100

Searching,

I understand your disappointment at not hearing the words that you wanted to hear. But remember that her experience of "not feeling attached in the same way as you have been researching" does not mean she does not have any kind of attachment feelings with you. A person may not feel the same way toward us that we feel toward them, but their caring may be equally strong. Her position in the therapeutic relationship is as your t, so she is going to experience the relationship differently. This is not a bad thing. She definitely cares about how you are doing and wants to help you be well. Try not to let what she didn't say ruin what she did say. Allow her words of caring rest gently on your heart.

Thanks Peaches! You are very right. And it is true she did not say "I don't care, I am a blank slate and it is not in my work to care". She said " I care, I feel, just not exactly like you do."

Originally Posted by Sannah

Searching, you did good bringing this stuff up! Some have already talked about this already, that your T cannot attach to you like a relationship IRL. She needs to stand apart a bit so that she can be your T. If she is involved with you it wouldn't be pretty, it would be harmful to you (boundary violations, etc.).

Thank you Sannah! I completely agree!

Oh my goodness you all! Thank you this has helped me to process through this so much.

My T is great. She is honest and supportive and consistent. I do feel like she gets me and what I need to get healthier. And I am all about the objectivity and professionalism both of which she does well. She is also very real with me and I feel as if I am in a relationship (a therapeutic one) not just receiving a service. For me, as I would imagine for many, the issue of attachment is deep and wounded. In my family attachment came with a price. To be able to talk about, process, and feel attachment that does not also encompass abuse is both healing and confusing and very relevant to my therapy.

I am sure I will bring it up again but probably not like I did yesterday. I feel much more centered about what this means to me and how central it is.

Again thank you all so much!

~Searching

[chaotic13]

I'm sorry that you felt like your were asking for something inappropriate.