[little*rhino]

idk what to do... my T and i are sort of at odds right now... and idk how to do better at what he wants me to do... i am so confused about what he is saying and i think he isfrustrated with me not getting it. i asked him about that part just last week and he said he was frustrated with his inability to find a way to say in so that i could understand, meaning with himself and not me entirely.

idk.. sure seems like it is with me in the moment

i felt so secure last week and this week it's gone again... we've had a bunch of ups and downs over the past while and im feeling distressed about that. i do some much better with the other aspects of what we are woking on when i feel secure (duh) and i do not understand why we can't keep it that way while we work on those things... if he wanted to tackle something about "us" then he should say so and then look at it directly.

right now it's like someone absent-mindedly picking at a sore spot... it hurts and it's keeping it sore rather than healing anything

im a bit sick of this. i could really use a few hundred dollars worth of groceries or clothes... i have very little of either right now.

the net effect? i drink more... pace... fret...my jaw is out of place from the clenching i do in my sleep = stress... and i am focused on this crap instead of the issues i went to him for... and i do less work. This is helping?

[pachyderm]

Ups and downs seem to be characteristic of therapy. That certainly is the way it is for me...

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by Candika

he said he was frustrated with his inability to find a way to say in so that i could understand, meaning with himself and not me entirely.

idk.. sure seems like it is with me in the moment

i do some much better with the other aspects of what we are woking on when i feel secure (duh) and

i do not understand why we can't keep it that way while we work on those things... if he wanted to tackle something about "us" then he should say so and then look at it directly.

Are you going to tell him all of these valuable things up there ^? Even this is valuable things to discuss for your mental health (when you said that you want to discuss what you came to him for, not this stuff). This kind of stuff teaches us how to understand our needs, speak up for them, and come to a better understanding with others.

[little*rhino]

yes pach... is true.. idk if you remember my stuff under the other username (sad that all of those posts got lost - almost 1000).. but i spent most of the first year searching through the local psych association's T listings for a psychodynamic T... not that i wasn't attached to him or that i felt he wasn' a good T, i was and he is.

I just keep feeling this push-pull... and it's all about our relationship... whenever i feel triggered about it.. i can't focus on the other stuff. i think triggering it sometimes is necessary in order to fix what happens. But unless we are looking at our relationship specifically, then it seems to make little sense to have me obsessing about it at home all week.

idk what he can do to help me... i am very attached, and we have talked about that... he feels that given my history the attachment isn't unhealthy. He says some of it will be about past (ie transference, parental in my case) but some of it will be genuine and about the real connection between us . But i have deep, deep trust issues and i have one whopping big problem with rejection. For me it is rejection for sure, not so much abandonment. i am triggered easily on those... a stiff breeze will send me into a panic. If he changes his tone... and he does when he moves into "teach" mode... when he is talking strictly about modifying behaviour or something... not an angry tone, but it is filtered into one by my poor brain... anything other than a gentle, understanding tone and i feel uncertain of his intentions.

i can't seem to change that... 2 yrs and i still get skittish if he drops his gentle tone. i am certain that he can't wait to get rid of me... but.. i know that what he is more likely to be thinking is he is eager for me to learn, grow and change so that i don't need him anymore... which to me is the same as "get out." i know, i know.... but that is where it is regardless of truth.

yes sannah... i will at some point... we just HAD a convo about something that was happening in our worknig together that was blocking me... we talked about how he relates to me, etc... it went so well, and i felt so secure... a week later i am crying myself to sleep.

for anyone who doesn't understand... i know it is a problem that arose in my early years... the years when children form proper healthy attachments that allow them to wander away from their mother but still feel secure about her being there. When it works it allows the child to be able to feel secure later in life, in forming relationships. Done wrong and the child grows into an adult who has problems forming and keeping relationships... and has a fear or rejection or abandonment, depending on the nature of the original problems in those early years.

i know where a lot of it comes from and we have started unravelling some.

to describe the pain... for those who don't know... for those who do know you will identify i think...

imagine a toddler, not old enough to talk, old enough to get around a bit but not in any stable way... imagine that child crying and crying hard. The sort of crying which indicates fear or pain... intense distress. The sort of crying where they can barely get a breath in between... they need their mother, or some care giver... they need someone to answer that cry. But no one does. Imagine that child sitting alone in their crib or playpen... wailing but getting no reply.

that is what it feels like inside... that child cries but in reality it doesn't exist anymore, neither does the care giver... we are all in a different time and place... that moment cannot be recreated and therefore cannot be fulfilled. The best one can hope for is to come to really understand that scene, and then look at how it affects you in the present... to find out how that pain came to be... how to fill the needs represented... fill them yourself. Sad eh? i mean.. nice to be independent and less needy, but sad to know that you can never give that child what it wants. It feels kind of empty to me that no one will ever answer that child... no one else i mean... the child needs to be soothed internally and we learn to meet our own needs

to me though... it breaks my heart... alone then = alone now... just
supposed to accept it and move on. Fantastic.

as i am typing this i am thinking that maybe he can't really help me. Maybe i can't do what he is trying to teach me. 2yrs and i still run away so quickly

maybe i should just stop? i feel kind of discouraged and hopeless

[StrawberryFieldsss]

Originally Posted by Candika

yes pach... is true.. idk if you remember my stuff under the other username (sad that all of those posts got lost - almost 1000).. but i spent most of the first year searching through the local psych association's T listings for a psychodynamic T... not that i wasn't attached to him or that i felt he wasn' a good T, i was and he is.

I just keep feeling this push-pull... and it's all about our relationship... whenever i feel triggered about it.. i can't focus on the other stuff. i think triggering it sometimes is necessary in order to fix what happens. But unless we are looking at our relationship specifically, then it seems to make little sense to have me obsessing about it at home all week.

idk what he can do to help me... i am very attached, and we have talked about that... he feels that given my history the attachment isn't unhealthy. He says some of it will be about past (ie transference, parental in my case) but some of it will be genuine and about the real connection between us . But i have deep, deep trust issues and i have one whopping big problem with rejection. For me it is rejection for sure, not so much abandonment. i am triggered easily on those... a stiff breeze will send me into a panic. If he changes his tone... and he does when he moves into "teach" mode... when he is talking strictly about modifying behaviour or something... not an angry tone, but it is filtered into one by my poor brain... anything other than a gentle, understanding tone and i feel uncertain of his intentions.

i can't seem to change that... 2 yrs and i still get skittish if he drops his gentle tone. i am certain that he can't wait to get rid of me... but.. i know that what he is more likely to be thinking is he is eager for me to learn, grow and change so that i don't need him anymore... which to me is the same as "get out." i know, i know.... but that is where it is regardless of truth.

yes sannah... i will at some point... we just HAD a convo about something that was happening in our worknig together that was blocking me... we talked about how he relates to me, etc... it went so well, and i felt so secure... a week later i am crying myself to sleep.

for anyone who doesn't understand... i know it is a problem that arose in my early years... the years when children form proper healthy attachments that allow them to wander away from their mother but still feel secure about her being there. When it works it allows the child to be able to feel secure later in life, in forming relationships. Done wrong and the child grows into an adult who has problems forming and keeping relationships... and has a fear or rejection or abandonment, depending on the nature of the original problems in those early years.

i know where a lot of it comes from and we have started unravelling some.

to describe the pain... for those who don't know... for those who do know you will identify i think...

imagine a toddler, not old enough to talk, old enough to get around a bit but not in any stable way... imagine that child crying and crying hard. The sort of crying which indicates fear or pain... intense distress. The sort of crying where they can barely get a breath in between... they need their mother, or some care giver... they need someone to answer that cry. But no one does. Imagine that child sitting alone in their crib or playpen... wailing but getting no reply.

that is what it feels like inside... that child cries but in reality it doesn't exist anymore, neither does the care giver... we are all in a different time and place... that moment cannot be recreated and therefore cannot be fulfilled. The best one can hope for is to come to really understand that scene, and then look at how it affects you in the present... to find out how that pain came to be... how to fill the needs represented... fill them yourself. Sad eh? i mean.. nice to be independent and less needy, but sad to know that you can never give that child what it wants. It feels kind of empty to me that no one will ever answer that child... no one else i mean... the child needs to be soothed internally and we learn to meet our own needs

to me though... it breaks my heart... alone then = alone now... just
supposed to accept it and move on. Fantastic.

as i am typing this i am thinking that maybe he can't really help me. Maybe i can't do what he is trying to teach me. 2yrs and i still run away so quickly

maybe i should just stop? i feel kind of discouraged and hopeless

In reading this I think you are actually doing the work right here. You came to this realization that I made green above. You're grieving. You can't go back, but there are many people out there that care, and you would be amazed at how far a smile from another person goes.

Just my opinion, but I would do more at this point to nurture myself, or to reach out to others that you are at least somewhat close to, not to tell them that you need nurturing lol, but just to connect with someone. Not talking about your problems, but just going for a movie, or ice cream, or stop by Sephora with them.... tell them you are going over there and ask if they want to go. If not, go by yourself. Talk to one of the salespeople about makeup, test the creams, spray perfume, get crazy! You might not personally do any of those things or like to do them, but you get the idea.

I've been where you are. I'm not you so I can't say I know your experience, but I can say I think you are well on your way and the fruit of your work is showing.

Originally Posted by Candika

maybe i should just stop? i feel kind of discouraged and hopeless

Sorry, no brilliant words of wisdom, but I'm right there with you today.

Other people do know how it feels and what you're going through.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by Candika

that moment cannot be recreated and therefore cannot be fulfilled. The best one can hope for is to come to really understand that scene, and then look at how it affects you in the present... to find out how that pain came to be... how to fill the needs represented... fill them yourself. Sad eh? i mean.. nice to be independent and less needy, but sad to know that you can never give that child what it wants. It feels kind of empty to me that no one will ever answer that child... no one else i mean... the child needs to be soothed internally and we learn to meet our own needs

to me though... it breaks my heart... alone then = alone now... just
supposed to accept it and move on.

We can meet that child's needs today because that inner child is still with you. Who says you will always be independent and alone? No one else will ever answer that child? I get my needs met in a lot of relationships.

[little*rhino]

none of these insights are really all that new... but the sadness and emptiness are more clear. i might have been messed up before but i was happy in my little world of ignorance. i was able to day dream on some subconscious level that she would find her care giver... that someone would answer....

now... now i dont see anything worthwhile. i am not really all that interested in being totally well adjusted. Trust me, i've known my share of practicing and retired T's who are now supposedly "well adjusted" but they have been as bad as anyone else, they can just tell themselves that they aren't. Most seem to still be as likely to be a total jerk as anyone, only now they are so good at positive self talk and all that they completely write off their responsibility in anything (oops, mind the distortion... most things). They act mean or disrepectfully and then pretend it was "concern." Oh BS. One i know had a revolving relationship with a man who couldn't keep it in his pants - and she counselled women in relationship therapy workshops!

now.. im not "t-bashing" per se... just saying that being "well adjusted" or having insights doesn't make one into a better person, or even the best you can be... just seems to allow a disconnect from something that seems important. Being able to get a handle on my emotions, made worse by medical issues, would be useful... but i didn't know that meant losing some things i never wanted to change.

my little attachment illusion... the unconscious dreaming... that kept me going a lot. i know it did, now that it's fading. WHo ever asked to change that? Not me... didn't know i had it

[peaches100]

Oh Candika!

I relate to this COMPLETELY:

imagine a toddler, not old enough to talk, old enough to get around a bit but not in any stable way... imagine that child crying and crying hard. The sort of crying which indicates fear or pain... intense distress. The sort of crying where they can barely get a breath in between... they need their mother, or some care giver... they need someone to answer that cry. But no one does. Imagine that child sitting alone in their crib or playpen... wailing but getting no reply.

that is what it feels like inside... that child cries but in reality it doesn't exist anymore, neither does the care giver... we are all in a different time and place... that moment cannot be recreated and therefore cannot be fulfilled. The best one can hope for is to come to really understand that scene, and then look at how it affects you in the present... to find out how that pain came to be... how to fill the needs represented... fill them yourself. Sad eh? i mean.. nice to be independent and less needy, but sad to know that you can never give that child what it wants. It feels kind of empty to me that no one will ever answer that child... no one else i mean... the child needs to be soothed internally and we learn to meet our own needs

It is so very, very hard to accept. I know. I'm with you on this.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by Candika

idk what to do... my T and i are sort of at odds right now... and idk how to do better at what he wants me to do... i am so confused about what he is saying and i think he isfrustrated with me not getting it. i asked him about that part just last week and he said he was frustrated with his inability to find a way to say in so that i could understand, meaning with himself and not me entirely.

Maybe you are not doing better at what he wants you to do because YOU don't want to. It takes more than just the T wanting the client to do something in order for it to happen. I don't know what he's asking you to do, but maybe you are not ready for it, and hence you can't/won't do it. Understanding or "getting it" doesn't mean that one will want to do it or be able to do it. They are two separate things. Our emotional readiness often lags behind our intellectual understanding. It sounds like you are listening to your inner readiness and following what it says, rather than going along with your T's timetable. Maybe you just need more time. Can you ask him to be patient? And work on other things right now, things that you are more ready to work on?

i do some much better with the other aspects of what we are woking on when i feel secure (duh) and i do not understand why we can't keep it that way while we work on those things... if he wanted to tackle something about "us" then he should say so and then look at it directly.

This is such a great description of what's going on. I hope you can tell that to your T directly to help him understand. If he doesn't want to make progress on your issues but insists on working on your feelings of insecurity/security in the therapeutic relationship, can you ask him why?

some of it will be genuine and about the real connection between us

Well, yay for that! It's so invalidating to have a T explain that the connection is all due to transference, so I am glad he recognizes that your feelings are real.

If he changes his tone... and he does when he moves into "teach" mode... when he is talking strictly about modifying behaviour or something

Maybe you don't need a teacher now, but a therapist.

i know that what he is more likely to be thinking is he is eager for me to learn, grow and change so that i don't need him anymore... which to me is the same as "get out."

More likely he is eager for you to learn, grow, and change because he cares for you and wants you to heal. A side effect of that somewhere down the road may be that you end therapy with him, but I doubt this is his end desire. It's the wish to see you happy.

I do feel that some of that childhood pain can be helped through therapy. T and I did work on my infanthood and I practiced soothing the infant me. It was helpful. The therapeutic relationship is itself helpful to me.

I guess what I hear most insistently from your posts is that you do you know your path to healing and that you know what does and does not help you with that in therapy. (This can change over time.) I encourage you to have confidence in your knowledge and communicate that knowledge very directly to your T.

[phoenix7]

a lot of us lived in denial - it was a great place to be - roses in all the gardens, friendly dogs at the gates and happy families - its easier to live that way - but it not living - I wasted a heck of a lot of years "surface dwelling" when my illusion was shattered my world came crashing down - I had to deal with who I really was and what had happened - to say I didnt like it - ... still dont like it is the understatement of the year! I liked the me that was the illusion - not this one....

In my mind I reach out to the crying child, I imagine holding her and telling her that she is loved and cared for now as she was not loved and cared for then - that I couldnt protect her then but that I will protect her now - I imagine giving her nice clothes and a rag doll (I always wanted one )
and I hold her while she cries. We cant change the past - but we can find ways to deal with it - that doesnt mean that there wont be times when we long for the illussion that was - that we wont rage against everyone and everything for us not being healed - this is part of growth - growth can often be painful but it is still growth - all steps on the healing road

If you feel there is a roadblock - tell your T - maybe T can find a way around it or through it - you deserve to be healed and as Sunrise said if you cant deal with this now - ask if you can leave it for now and deal with other things - come back to it when you are ready - please be kind to yourself P7

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by notme9

Sorry, no brilliant words of wisdom, but I'm right there with you today.

Other people do know how it feels and what you're going through.

I am off list a lot these past days but this is what I wanted to tell you also. <<< hugs for you >>>

[RiverX]

".........i am so confused about what he is saying and i think he isfrustrated with me not getting it. i asked him about that part just last week and he said he was frustrated with his inability to find a way to say in so that i could understand, meaning with himself and not me entirely..........."
.....this bit sounds quite gentle and honest....

".........right now it's like someone absent-mindedly picking at a sore spot... it hurts and it's keeping it sore rather than healing anything........."

"............im a bit sick of this. i could really use a few hundred dollars worth of groceries or clothes... i have very little of either right now. ......"

the net effect? i drink more... pace... fret...my jaw is out of place from the clenching i do in my sleep = stress... and i am focused on this crap instead of the issues i went to him for... and i do less work. This is helping?[/quote]..........."

.....this describes so accurately what I was experiencning in therapy.... I really relate, and its interesting to hear this experience reflected by your words. ...

"....how to fill the needs represented... fill them yourself. Sad eh? i mean.. nice to be independent and less needy, but sad to know that you can never give that child what it wants. It feels kind of empty to me that no one will ever answer that child... no one else i mean... the child needs to be soothed internally and we learn to meet our own needs

to me though... it breaks my heart... alone then = alone now... just
supposed to accept it and move on. Fantastic............."

.....I know that this is what people say, .. - tho I'm not sure that its exactly like that. I think theres a deeper way to approach this than just to say something like -- 'oh feel the feelings and take care of yourself from now on'..... I think theres something else that can indeed satisfy the yearnning at the depth that is needed.
I feel this. Many would say no, thats impossible, just griev your losses, be with that 'inner child'. And thats true, and I have and am grieving my losses.
The frustrating thing is.. I cant effectively put into a few words what it is I see that is possible. So, I'm trying to put it into words, and actions over time bit by bit.
Candika, I just so relate to what you said, and how you expressed it so, so powerfully.

One possibility, check out this link, see if it helps you at all.. www.selfinexile.com

river