[rainbow8]

I want to discuss what treehouse posted in Peach's thread:

I think one of the most painful part of therapy (actually THE most painful part of therapy) is facing all of the needs that weren't met throughout our lives, and realizing there is really no way to go back and do it over. No matter how nurturing our T's are, we still can't go back and change what happened to us as children. It's so, so, so painful. It seems like you are feeling a lot of that right now

Yes, the above has been the crux of my therapy! It's triggering for me to read it, but I need to. Over and over. I've struggled with wanting my T to give me what she can't for 6 years. I struggled with it when I saw other Ts in the past. I felt like they all "shattered my dreams." They told me that I can't go back and get what I missed as in infant, but I kept trying to get "something", I guess love, from them anyway. It hurt so, so much.

The worst part for me is that I wasn't abused and come from a stable family. Not that there weren't any problems, but nothing major. I think it's because I was a preemie, and maybe my Mom didn't bond right with me because of that. Who knows? I'll never know, and it doesn't matter. It just hurts!

I've accepted that my T can't meet those needs, that no one can. Intellectually accepted it, that is. But how in the world does one accept it emotionally?

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I've accepted that my T can't meet those needs, that no one can. Intellectually accepted it, that is. But how in the world does one accept it emotionally?

Well, as usual I will come up with a different point of view. I too have been told on occasion by a therapist that "nobody" can give me what I want and need. Well, that may be true of the people who say that, and many others besides, but I decline to agree that it is not possible. I don't think the people who say that actually know everybody. I think that it should be possible for others to help us enough so that we build on that and create fulfillment of our needs in conjunction with others. I think many of the people here are doing a lot to make that possible, in supporting and encouraging and validating each other.

Rainbow, I liked what Treehouse wrote there, too. Lately it has been something that I've been aware of for myself. And it hurt at first, but even just putting it into words helped me to understand it better (before I would get upset easily, and now I understand it was because I had that longtime need there, and felt like it wasn't being met, again, and that's why it hurt me so much). It's actually been freeing, because when I look at it like that, I see that it's not really about my T and what she is or isn't doing, that it's more coming from me and my needs. She is not perfect, she is just a person too, trying really hard to help me, but she will never be able to attend to every single one of my needs (a la the early infant/parent relationship). I've recently realized that I do think it's sad that I never had that...that I should have...that my life would be so different if I had...but here we are, I'm doing the best that I can, and I plan to give to my children all of the things I didn't have.

I also agree wtih Pachyderm (I think? if I'm reading it correctly) that that doesn't mean those needs will always go completely unmet. I think that you can get them partially met by different people in your life, and that's why it's nice to have a support system of different people to turn to (so you don't put too much pressure on any one person). I read this article on CNN a while back about building a "patchwork mother" of people to support you and thought it was pretty interesting: http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/perso...her/index.html

When I'm upset, I don't always see things this way, and it's definitely something I'm still working on, but lately, it's all started to make sense to me and, like I said, it's been sort of freeing. Hope this is helpful in a small way...

Originally Posted by notme9

putting it into words helped me to understand it better (before I would get upset easily, and now I understand it was because I had that longtime need there, and felt like it wasn't being met, again, and that's why it hurt me so much). It's actually been freeing, because when I look at it like that, I see that it's not really about my T and what she is or isn't doing, that it's more coming from me and my needs. She is not perfect, she is just a person too, trying really hard to help me, but she will never be able to attend to every single one of my needs

For me, just accepting the fact that I will never be able to go back in time and have those needs met has freed me up to accept the nurturing and love that T DOES give me. I probably have an unusually nurturing T in some ways...but it doesn't all come from him...I have had to learn to ask for what I need, and then he is more than willing to give it to me. The love and nurturing he give me feel like "enough" now that I am able to appreciate and enjoy them for what they are...not a literal replacement for what I missed as a child, but still something that I deserve (as we all do).

I don't have time to look that that link right now, notme9, but I am REALLY curious about it and will be back later to take a look. Thanks for posting it!

[ECHOES]

I know we can't go back but yet it feels like something missing, an emptiness, a wound, is being filled up/tended to in therapy, by therapy, by the relationship with T.

I read (in "In Session", chapter 7, 'Kohut's Compromise') about someone similar to me, craving a mothering relationship and seeking it everywhere, "Dreams of the Perfect Mother". The explanation was that therapy can't provide that relationship as we would have experienced it then, but.. "Client and therapist together can complete a new growth process that is analogous to the thwarted process of development."

I do feel that I get that in therapy. My roots are in ambivalent, disorganized attachment ("Attachment in Psychothrapy" by David Wallin, discussion of Mary Mains' research findings), and T is very reliable and steady and open to me feeling attached to her in therapy. No it isn't mothering like I wished I'd had, but it is attention, interest, concern, respect, humor, and depth... things that do make me feel cared about and nutured. At the same time, I can become very depressed when I think that it isn't 'enough', it isn't personal. And I have had to acknowledge that I want to be rescued, I want others to do for me, I want to drop my problem of the moment off and come back for it all fixed by T. I want T to fix everything, haul me around in a baby carrier every minute of her day so she can tend to every need I might have, so I can be that close to her all the time. lol

It is so hard, being an adult yet so aware of the needy child within. It is so hard sometimes competing with that child's needs and wishes. It is also hard going through therapy, knowing you are helping the trapped child grow and learn to like him/herself, to help in the process of ebabling that child to emerge and be well.

[phoenix7]

I think we cant change the things that happened to us - I do think we can get those needs met in the here and now - not in the same way they would have been met but in other ways.

T can help with this, friends IRL and at PC can help and we can help ourselves - when I was small I always wanted a rag doll - never got it - recently I went out and bought one for the little me hiding inside and it felt good I didnt do my usual "youa re waaaaay too old for dolls" thing - I said this is a need I have had for a long time and its one I CAN fulfill - so I did - there is still a deep hole inside filled with longing to be loved and cared for but we do what we can when we can

**********

[Brightheart]

I think it is important to recognize the past, to understand what has been lost, to grieve what has been lost and then eventually move forward and try to live life in the present. Having needs that weren't met when we were children leaves us with a sense of emptiness and pain. I think we should let ourselves feel the pain of that...without becoming buried by it. I know...very difficult to do. Sometimes it is okay to feel the joy of the here and now...and let ourselves be nurtured, loved and accepted today. When my T talked in his special soft voice, I'd close my eyes and allow myself to be soothed by him. I'd soak it up. It was a wonderful feeling and I eventually was able to fully accept it. Yesterday's pain doesn't have to prevent us from tomorrow's joy. Let your T meet your needs and enjoy every moment with him/her. It doesn't mean the past won't still hurt, but maybe that when a new day comes there could be joy and love...if we are open to receiving it. Well, those are my thoughts anyhow.

[sunrise]

I don't have the expectation that my T will meet all my needs, so I'm not disappointed with him. rainbow, would one way to approach this be to change your expectations for the therapeutic relationship?

My T does meet a lot of my needs. He doesn't ignore me; he gives me unconditional positive regard, empathy and warmth; he really really listens to me; he "gets" me; he "holds" me emotionally.... And lots more. All this is way more than anyone else in my life is giving me right now. I sometimes feel overwhelmed by his abilities and generosity.

I've accepted that my T can't meet those needs, that no one can.

Even if you can change your expectations for your T, there may be someone who can meet your needs--YOU. I have done some work in therapy on learning how to meet my earlier needs. We had some EMDR sessions where I went back in time to early infant days or when I was a little girl, and I learned to step into the picture and give comfort and reassurance to the younger me's, and to even rescue them from bad situations if that is what they needed (or if it is what I needed them to have). One of the first times I did this, the first thing a particular little girl ego state said to me was, "where have you been?" So she wanted to be rescued, she wanted me to hold her, she was just waiting. For decades. Sad, but at least it was not forever.

I think one of the most painful part of therapy (actually THE most painful part of therapy) is facing all of the needs that weren't met throughout our lives, and realizing there is really no way to go back and do it over. No matter how nurturing our T's are, we still can't go back and change what happened to us as children.

Part of my pain comes from 20 years of unmet needs during marriage. Recently, my T was able to provide a corrective experience with my H in a couples session and it was so much more powerful than a corrective experience with just my T. So I understand about how it is hard for the T himself to meet the needs. You can get a lot of mileage from doing it with the person himself/herself from whom you suffered the "no meeting of needs." I think this is one reason why one of my T's favorite types of therapy is doing work with adult children and their parents. He can often bring about so much healing so much more quickly this way (for both the children and the parents) than if he worked individually with the adult child for years. Couples therapy can have similarly big payoffs. Of course, it's not possible always to do these types of therapy--the parent or spouse has died, the relationship was too abusive, the person is not strong enough, the other person doesn't want to, etc. I think maybe that is why techniques such as Gestalt's "Empty Chair" can be healing--you do get a chance to directly talk with your parent even though they are not present. I think Psychodrama can help in a similar way. And visualizations and ego state therapy can also be helpful with this.

Rainbow, have you tried anything like that in therapy? Do you think techniques like those might be helpful?

The worst part for me is that I wasn't abused and come from a stable family. Not that there weren't any problems, but nothing major. I think it's because I was a preemie, and maybe my Mom didn't bond right with me because of that. Who knows? I'll never know, and it doesn't matter. It just hurts!

This was a similar scene to one that we dealt with in EMDR where I went back to that infant ego state and learned to parent her. The combination of past visualizations and ego state therapy has been really helpful to me. Is your mother still living? If so, and with a family therapist who does this sort of work, it might be possible to meet in therapy with your Mom and see what you could do. By the way, my therapist has suggested several times that I bring my mother to therapy and I have declined. I just would not want to do that. But I do see the healing potential there, and have appreciated some of the gains possible when my T has described such sessions to me that he has participated in. Very moving.

Each person is so individual in what they need to heal. Rainbow, a therapist who is positive and can help you explore that might be really helpful. I think the "no one can" statement from you is a paralyzing and negative thought. I hope you can find the way to feeling that you can. I think it is possible to help oneself with past hurts and needs that didn't get met, and I also agree with what some others have said about having others in our lives who help us in the here and now.

[mixedup_emotions]

It's hard to realize that you can't undo the past or change the past....But I do believe that your perception of the past can change. I am struggling with similar feelings of how I "wasted" the last 34 years of my life living a certain way....and only now am I started to realize how unhealthy it has been. My young adult life is over, and I wasted it in an abusive relationship. I will never get those years back. It's hard to endure the thoughts and feelings associated with that painful realization. And knowing that I have a long road ahead to get healthy makes me panic because I feel like time is passing me by in the process....

I am trying to think of it as, my experiences in life have a lesson....figure out that lesson and it won't be for nothing....Easier said than done.

[Mouse_]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I want to discuss what treehouse posted in Peach's thread:

Yes, the above has been the crux of my therapy! It's triggering for me to read it, but I need to. Over and over. I've struggled with wanting my T to give me what she can't for 6 years. I struggled with it when I saw other Ts in the past. I felt like they all "shattered my dreams." They told me that I can't go back and get what I missed as in infant, but I kept trying to get "something", I guess love, from them anyway. It hurt so, so much.

The worst part for me is that I wasn't abused and come from a stable family. Not that there weren't any problems, but nothing major. I think it's because I was a preemie, and maybe my Mom didn't bond right with me because of that. Who knows? I'll never know, and it doesn't matter. It just hurts!

I've accepted that my T can't meet those needs, that no one can. Intellectually accepted it, that is. But how in the world does one accept it emotionally?

Its a process of grieving and letting go...eventually we begin to focus less on what we didnt' get and focus on what we can have now as adults, we can do things for ourselves that we couldn't as children and if we could have then we wouldnt be feeling like we do now...the thought of giving ourself what we need feels such a lonely thought at times as we still want someone to help us do that, its always nice to have someone there for us, and there will be, but our need for it to always be coming from someone else and not ourselfs will change...

[Sannah]

Rainbow, yes, the past is over and we can't go back but you still have that inner child with you and YOU can give her what she needs right now. There isn't a time limit on this stuff IMO.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

I am struggling with similar feelings of how I "wasted" the last 34 years of my life living a certain way....and only now am I started to realize how unhealthy it has been. My young adult life is over, and I wasted it in an abusive relationship. I will never get those years back. It's hard to endure the thoughts and feelings associated with that painful realization. And knowing that I have a long road ahead to get healthy makes me panic because I feel like time is passing me by in the process....

MUE, try just living in the moment. That way you won't be worrying about the future or spending too much time regretting the past. Life is lived in the present...........

[ECHOES]

Mouse said:

the thought of giving ourself what we need feels such a lonely thought at times as we still want someone to help us do that,...

yeah it does sure feel like that, very distressing sometimes, much pain

[chaotic13]

I think Ts can help us get what we need. We may not be able to get it directly from them, but they can help us get our needs met. I remember several months ago leaving my Ts office thinking...WTF, why do I go to her, when I really needed her help...she didn't help me. That evening I received an out of the blue call from an old friend, who by the end of the phone call...had given me NOT what I thought I needed, but what I REALLY needed. When reflecting on it the next day, I realized... my T and her encouragement and work with me months before had enabled me to reconnect with this old friend. In the end...my T although she didn't directly met my needs...had in fact played a role in helping get what I needed...and more.

Therapy is frustrating, the whole in our core is big and painful and seems endless. But little by little it can heal. We just have to be open and patient. Which....is REALLY hard sometimes when we a really low and hurting.