[lido78]

My sister has always been conservative financially. She has managed to save quite a lot of money on her own, and her boyfriend is exactly the same way. Although I respect her discipline, it sometimes comes off as just a bit too cheap. Respecting her financial savvy, however, I recently asked her to look over my numbers since I'm looking to buy my first house. We went through the alternatives, and she even offered me a very low interest loan. I appreciated the offer and declined. First, because I didn't need the loan and second, because you just never want to mix money issues with family or friends. In any event, she's aware that I want to make this home purchase soon and that I'm having to be a bit creative to gather the funds for the down payment.

Today, she sent me a text message about having gotten some gift cards she'll never use. She wanted to know if I shop at that particular store. I said yes, but didn't say anything more about actually wanting the cards since she had not come out and offered them to me. She did mention not wanting them to expire and not wanting to sell them on Craigslist because she would have to discount them too much in order to get people to buy them.

When she did offer them to me, it was to buy the cards. $39 worth of gift cards for the low, low price of $35! Wowie-zowie. She didn't want to discount them too much on Craigslist for strangers but had no problem barely discounting them for me. So strange, to offer me a loan to buy a house but charge me for $39 worth of gift cards. It was such a turn off and actually made me feel sad since she' my only sibling and our parents are elderly.

Ironically, I had been buying a b-day gift for a friend earlier in the day and found something I wanted to buy her...just as a nice gift...for no reason. Something made me put it back...the ungenerous thought ran through my mind..."She'd never just buy me a gift for no reason...this is how she GOT so rich."

Am I being disrespectful of her personal decision to be frugal or does this just seem a bit too cheap? I'm confused by the loan offer followed up shortly by the gift card deal.

[shezbut]

(((lido)))

I don't know.

I would assume that your sister is frugal, which is how she got to where she is today. I used to have a couple of friends who were very good with their money over the years ~ both put a lot more thought and planning into the trips that they did take. I was a day in their travel, whereas they were the main reason of my travel. On gifts, I spent a lot more money (even though money was very tight for me!) and put more emotion into gifts bought for them.

But, look at the situation now. They're upper middle class and I'm a peon (below poverty level) in society ~ those are honest facts. What's better? Heart or money??

Ah, money and gifts ... A very tricky subject when you come from a family who has always utilized these things as gifts, rewards and punishments in an effort to manipulate, control and purchase the loyalty of their children.

I work diligently to try to not feel resentment and jealousy ... It can be difficult though when one of you got a lucky break and the other one didn't.

Especially when the well-to-do one acts like a total heel by constantly bragging about all they've got (intentional or not) while knowing that the other one (through no fault of her own) is struggling to simply survive.

[lido78]

We both had the exact same advantages, but she just took care of herself financially better than I did. I'm by no means in bad shape financially and consider myself very lucky...we earn about the same and have been at our jobs for 15+ years and don't need to scrimp and saved to pay bills. She's just been better at saving by never buying herself anything new and by not treating herself very often. I like to eat out and am more willing to spend more money on quality items than to just buy whatever is the cheapest product. I also tend to buy gifts for friends or family if I see something I think they'll like and often donate to charities just because I do feel so fortunate. I respect her in so many ways but to "sell" me the gift cards she'd gotten as presents from someone else (in this case, our father), which means she'd just get the cash from the gift cards, just came off wrong to me...I only have myself to blame for not being in AS GOOD a shape as she is financially...but, I feel lucky to not be struggling as so many are...so, it's not about the money, per se...I can more than afford to buy the cards from her or to shop at the store without them. I guess that I would have taken a different approach....I probably would have given the cards away during the holidays for folks at work that really could have used them rather than try to sell them....

[-jimi-]

I'm one of those annoying people that are VERY GOOD with money. I have about 30-40 % of the income people normally have and I still get to lend THEM money..... Sigh.

But when I got two movie tickets as a thank you for an email I sent a company, and my friend wanted to borrow some money for getting coffee after a movie she would go see with someone she was dating, I solved this by giving away the tickets (after all I hadn't paid for them and they were worth lot more than coffee money), so she could use her movie money for the coffee... or even dinner.

Win-win. I'm never cheap with friends. It doesn't pay off. I'm cheap with myself. If my friend needs a little to fill up her car... sure she is getting it. In return, she is happy to pick me up if I get "stranded" somewhere.

I'm only cheap with people who are not true friends and would just use me.

Originally Posted by lido78

... but to "sell" me the gift cards she'd gotten as presents from someone else (in this case, our father), which means she'd just get the cash from the gift cards, just came off wrong to me ...

I agree ...

You are absolutely right my friend, money issues and family can get a little murky for sure. But your sister sounds well meaning and very savvy to me. You should feel lucky to be a sister to such a smart lady! She's got your best interest at heart and sounds like a great sister to me. I've got three of my own, however, and I have got one just like yours lol. May be annoying to a point, but at the end of the day, I am the big sister to a superstar! You should be so lucky my friend. Good sisters don't just grow on trees like money does you know? Yours truly, Lightbulb7

[lido78]

Very good point lightbulb...she's always there if I really need her, and her choices are her own...not to be judged or criticized...

[yellowted]

I opted out of gift giving/receiving many years ago when my partner was ill needing 2 hourly care during the day and night and i was the only one to give it. i was holding down a job and setting up my own pre school at the time. my lot (family) still insisted i drive 6 hours each way to deliver gifts to them.(and told me off for not buying ones newest boyfriend a gift when i didn't even know he exhisted!) before petrol it cost me around £200, and all i got in return was a pair of socks with a stuffed bear head sewn on the top of the foot, a box of chocolates (it is well known i am allergic to chocolate) and a cheque for £15, my partner of 10 years got nothing!! on that christmas day i decided from then on i would not give or receive gifts to/from them again, releasing me from the long drive, and from enduring any time with my abuser. now i happily spend some money on buying myself a gift in the christmas sales, something i want rather than i need. which is what i told them to do with the money they would spend on me! i know they still begrudge me doing this as they lose out, but hey my siblings all get support, free meals and handouts from mother during the year and they are capable of working where i get nothing, i am too far away, want nothing to do with them since they all stood by my abuser and am not capable of working at this time!
I have no regrets or feel any guilt about choosing this. it is a fact i do not get gifts so Christmas is not like most peoples, but my christmas is happier this way, less stress, no going into debt, no unwanted gifts waiting around till the next charity collection, and it means i can spend money on gifts for people i like and want to suprise without obligation.

I would never sell something like a gift card like that to someone close to me like a sibling. If I have no use for it and didn't pay for it, I dont' think it's very ethical to make money off of them from a sibling. Period. But that's just me. Fine by me to sell them on craigslist for cash but to a family member? Especially one you know is less fortunate!? Fact is, I thin you're right on the money (pun intended) that this mentality is exactly how she got rich. There's a fine line between frugal and savvy and just plain greed.

And to me, she's choosing prosperity over people. In the end, I'll always choose people. What I mean is she's choosing to pursue her prosperity at the expense of those that should be here closest friends and/or relatives.

[lido78]

I agree with what s4ndm4n2006 says but also know that I can't impose my values on someone else. I don't want to be judgemental by thinking of her as cheap, so I need to not get into money stuff with her because we have wildly different views on the subject. She's good at giving advice on how to do things like negotiate on the house I'd like to buy and working through the different mortgage options but when it comes to actual exchanges of money between us, hands off I think! She called me again this morning to offer me a low interest loan for the down payment although I already said I had enough...but then fussed over a Groupon type voucher that she forgot to use....she said she felt guilty for wasting the money (probably about $10)...so, maybe, she's not really cheap but has some kind of real problem about money...it just seems to mean so much to her...maybe it's more about security than the actual dollar amounts involved. It's kind of starting to feel like a bit of a sickness to me....and I don't want to challenger her on it because she gets so weird...oh well!

As for the rest of my family, we've all given up gift giving. Our parents are elderly and there are no children or grandchildren to spoil. So, we usually send out a list of charities that we like and other members of the family donate in honor of the recipient. If we do gifts at all, we put a really low limit like $10 or $20 and just have fun with funny gifts from the dollar store...

Originally Posted by lido78

I agree with what s4ndm4n2006 says but also know that I can't impose my values on someone else. I don't want to be judgemental by thinking of her as cheap, so I need to not get into money stuff with her because we have wildly different views on the subject. She's good at giving advice on how to do things like negotiate on the house I'd like to buy and working through the different mortgage options but when it comes to actual exchanges of money between us, hands off I think! She called me again this morning to offer me a low interest loan for the down payment although I already said I had enough...but then fussed over a Groupon type voucher that she forgot to use....she said she felt guilty for wasting the money (probably about $10)...so, maybe, she's not really cheap but has some kind of real problem about money...it just seems to mean so much to her...maybe it's more about security than the actual dollar amounts involved. It's kind of starting to feel like a bit of a sickness to me....and I don't want to challenger her on it because she gets so weird...oh well!

As for the rest of my family, we've all given up gift giving. Our parents are elderly and there are no children or grandchildren to spoil. So, we usually send out a list of charities that we like and other members of the family donate in honor of the recipient. If we do gifts at all, we put a really low limit like $10 or $20 and just have fun with funny gifts from the dollar store...

I think you are right my friend and another thing I have noticed, sometimes financial pressure is put on to someone from someone else, like a spouse etc. and it suddenly becomes more important than it ever was. My sister's case comes to mind. Once she got married, there was pressure on her to make income by her husband, and they had children and the pressure intensified, forcing her to become more frugal or lose some of her "worth" in the marriage, sadly but true. Perhaps your sister has been pressured in her marriage or in some other way to make herself "financially useful"? I have had the blessing of having not as much pressure put on me in my relationships which equals out to my spending etc. being more lax than hers. Perhaps?

Originally Posted by lido78

I agree with what s4ndm4n2006 says but also know that I can't impose my values on someone else. I don't want to be judgemental by thinking of her as cheap, so I need to not get into money stuff with her because we have wildly different views on the subject. She's good at giving advice on how to do things like negotiate on the house I'd like to buy and working through the different mortgage options but when it comes to actual exchanges of money between us, hands off I think! She called me again this morning to offer me a low interest loan for the down payment although I already said I had enough...but then fussed over a Groupon type voucher that she forgot to use....she said she felt guilty for wasting the money (probably about $10)...so, maybe, she's not really cheap but has some kind of real problem about money...it just seems to mean so much to her...maybe it's more about security than the actual dollar amounts involved. It's kind of starting to feel like a bit of a sickness to me....and I don't want to challenger her on it because she gets so weird...oh well!

As for the rest of my family, we've all given up gift giving. Our parents are elderly and there are no children or grandchildren to spoil. So, we usually send out a list of charities that we like and other members of the family donate in honor of the recipient. If we do gifts at all, we put a really low limit like $10 or $20 and just have fun with funny gifts from the dollar store...

I would just find a neutral party to get financial advice from when you need it, sounds like you might have opened up a can of worms in this area. Not to judge but she does apparently have money on a high priority in her life. Whether it's good or not, that's a personal choice I think.

As for gift giving, I can never let gift giving go if I have, then I do give gifts. I never understood the "exchange" idea or that it's a give and get thing but that if I want to give, I give, regardless of what the receiving party can or will do. I think that the mentality that it puts pressure on the receiver has just twisted the whole idea behind it. I mean, I won't force giving something to someone if they are adamant about me not doing so for those reasons but when I do I never really expect and equal return or even a lesser gift. I just enjoy it. That's just me.

[lido78]

Exactly, that's why we gave it up for b-days and holidays...just seemed like a "give and get" type of thing. I love to see something small that someone would like and just give it to them for no reason. Nothing too expensive, because I wouldn't want that to create pressure for the other person...and, I don't even feel comfortable getting gifts...(treating myself is another story...I have to say that I feel very comfortable with that!)