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#1
Mar 14, 2013, 12:18 PM
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I have been in a committed relationship for 10 months now, we have even talked about marriage possibly...7 months in, my bf bought me a "promise ring"...we started out completely enthralled with each other and slowly as we came down from the honeymoon high, we settled into a "normal" relationship....there have been ups and downs...especially in our problems with communication. He is a VERY alpha male, dominant personality, sees things black and white and to be frank, lacks sensitivity and is rarely emotional. This translates to a lot of arguments - me trying to get him to hear me out, or try to at least attempt to understand my point of view....
In addition, he is the midst of a major career change and has gone back to school -- he is overhauling his life basically and I know is very overwhelmed and has had less and less time for me as he studies and preps to try to become a dentist (we are both in out late thirties). He is under great stress and I know is worried about this life change. We hit a wall recently and I have been having serious doubts (and probably been a little distant because of these doubts)...as I want to settle down and have kids sooner than later - and he is absolutely focused on school and his career.....we had a fight when he confronted me on my distance and I confessed that I was having these doubts........ afterwards...I made my decision to make a better effort and the weeks after have been better. Last weekend my girlfriend told me that she had seen my bf's profile on several dating websites -- pictures we had taken together with me cut off. I was devastated and humiliated. I invited him over that night and confronted him -- I had all of his belongings in a box at the door and was ready to end it once and for all. When confronted he became tense, angry, defensive -- even stormed out throwing the box of his items. He came back and we fought -- he claimed he joined those sites after our last fight when I told him I was having doubts - he said he did it out of anger and forgot to take it down. The sites showed he had responded to people - then he claimed he had given a friend who was interested in online dating his login to check it out. He seemed paranoid - believing that I asked my friend to email him and "trap" him. He stuck to this story of "forgetting to take his profile down" - though later I found him on a 3rd site and he admitted he was on it cuz "he had friends on it" that he chatted with. He apologized for putting up the profiles, but I know he is not being completely forthcoming and sticking to some stupid story about his friend using his login. Any normal, self-respecting woman would leave immediately - right???? But I don't know why I can't walk away. I tried to have a heart-to-heart with him on the phone a few days later - to try and understand... I know he has deep set fears of being hurt or getting his heart broken (I knew this early on)...and all he could say was "I thought you were going to break up with me, and I wasn't going to let you hurt me first". I told him I needed a break to think about things -- he thinks I'm over reacting and doesn't seem even remorseful - He says "I did not cheat - I did not give my number out, meet anyone, or sleep with anyone - I did not betray you..." ..."I apologized over and over, what else do you want me to say? " I know deep down he loves me, I have not doubts about it. But I think he has so many issues with abandonment, fear of getting hurt and rejection from childhood scars that has never been resolved - early on during the height of our passionate honeymoon stage, he would always say "don't break my heart..." -- needless to say this is preventing us from delving into a deep emotional connection with one another. I'm sure there are people who have been in longer relationships, long marriages, or similar situations -- is this salvageable???? Or should I try to end this, though I am having a hard time leaving?? I know I have my own issues - I've got my own character flaws and issues I need to work on....but this seems too hard..... I've been distraught and feeling heart-broken...not sure what to do.... |
 Bill3
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#2
Mar 15, 2013, 02:23 PM
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The way that you describe your bf points to many red flags:
problems with communication sees things black and white lacks sensitivity (empathy) understand my point of view paranoid I thought you were going to break up with me, and I wasn't going to let you hurt me first abandonment, fear of getting hurt and rejection You should be madly in love and enjoying one another 10 months in to a relationship, not fighting. If you were my friend or daughter, I'd tell you to run like the wind. I wish you the best! |
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#3
Mar 15, 2013, 02:39 PM
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You don't sound very happy. Never mind whether he loves you. Never mind whether it could be salvaged. You are worth more.
I am married and do not think this is a good foundation for a marriage, no way. My husband is great and I still thought very carefully before marrying him. You need to leave! |
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#4
Mar 15, 2013, 02:53 PM
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You are in the web of confusion about how to define things (is it cheating? is it not? does it qualify or does not?) and are overlooking the much bigger issue that he just does not love you. You are also using wrong vocabulary. You are saying that you "confessed" to him about your doubts. "Confess" has to do with admission of guilt or fault. It has nothing to do with having doubts. Having doubts has never been something that you can confess to, for two very important reasons: 1) doubts are in your mind - they are not actions and thus you cannot be faulted for them and nobody should fault you for having them, and 2) doubting your decisions and commitments and plans is a normal and healthy part of human existence. So you are basically focused on the wrong things. As others have advised above, just cut your losses. 10 months is not so much time wasted. Things could have been worse. Plus, to cut out your SO from the photograph you post on your dating profile is lame and distasteful and stupid, so that alone should rule him out as a candidate. |
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#5
Mar 15, 2013, 02:58 PM
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Plus, abandonment issues, fear of rejection issues, and other issues that carry various psychological labels you have used throughout the post are best resolved in therapy and not in interactions with significant others. |
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#6
Mar 15, 2013, 04:15 PM
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Back to the title of the thread.
" Is online chatting cheating? - can this be salvaged??" There are two largely unrelated questions here. 1) Is online chatting cheating? up to discussion. also unclear whether he chatted or went further 2) Can this be salvaged? There is nothing to salvage: in your words, " to be frank, lacks sensitivity and is rarely emotional" - so there is nothing to salvage. There is no point in marrying someone who lacks sensitivity, unless you want solely an income provider. As an income provider, a dentist would work fine. But there is not much potential in him outside income generation. Plus, he is not a dentist yet. You also wrote that he said: "I wasn't going to let you hurt me first" That is both aggressive and defensive at the same time. It also points to his deep seated fear of risks that are intrinsic in attachments. You definitely do not want that kind of material. |
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#7
Mar 15, 2013, 06:46 PM
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So you are thinking of marrying an aggressor. |
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#8
Mar 15, 2013, 08:57 PM
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Hi Hellok.
 Personally? I'm very...dubious, to say the extreme least, about his story. Okay, sure, he didn't sleep with anyone...we can all grant him that. But the line about "giving his friend his account" is, I think, utter crap. I fell for that line once, and I ended up paying quite dearly for it.  Most people do not give their accounts, particularly things that they've paid for (my case) or have personal information on (your case). And he has responded to people as well? I don't believe his story, not at all. Additionally, while I respect the fact that he's been hurt in the past and seems to have trust issues, he is not giving you much emotionally. I have known people within my family that've married the "not emotional" type expecting them to warm up a bit. I tell you truly, if this is a problem to you now, it will be down the road. Ultimately, this is your happiness on the line here...don't settle. Please know you are in my prayers, and I hope things work out. Hugs, Harley
__________________
The world suffers alot. Not because of the violence of bad people, but because of the silence of good people.- Napoleon Bonaparte |
 hamster-bamster
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#9
Mar 15, 2013, 10:03 PM
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I would not want to marry someone who is "not emotional" and who lacks "sensitivity" and who sees things in "black and white" (except for that little grey area of dating websites) and who is sneaky (dating websites) and dishonest (dating websites). I think you deserve better than a "salvaged" relationship.
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| hamster-bamster
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#10
Mar 15, 2013, 10:14 PM
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#11
Mar 16, 2013, 04:08 PM
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Whether he chatted with one woman or had penetrative sex with 100 women is irrelevant to the purpose of your quest. He told you that he opened his account on the dating site out of preemptive vengeance (he did not want YOU to hurt HIM first, as he told you succinctly and clearly). That establishes malicious intent. I believe that most people who open dating site profiles while having a partner do so out of non-malicious motivation, such as boredom, thrill-seeking, desire for variety, and a myriad of others which are common and understandable. Your SO did not have any of those reasons. He wanted to hurt you. Unless you are a masochist and want to be hurt, you should not continue with him, period. What exactly he did on the dating site is irrelevant and the pursuit of further information and clarification in that regard is a waste of your time. Plus, you probably would never know the whole truth, and you should resign to that fact, because we in general live in a world surrounded by uncertainty and insufficient information. If you want to use your time more productively, you should stop being curious about what he did on the dating site and examine the red flags that you missed in the beginning of the relationship, because that would help you extract useful lessons learned that you can then apply to build a better future for yourself. |
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#12
Mar 16, 2013, 06:20 PM
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Hammy, sometimes your logic baffles me. If a guy/girl is looking outside of a relationship and you are clearly in a monogamous relationship then said person is maliciously hurting the loyal partner. If this wasn't true, there wouldn't be tons of posts based on said behavior? I would say it is malicious if the partner on said site is hiding it from the other partner...which is often the case. The lies cause the distrust and destroy a relationship.
If you want to make friends, why would you start on a dating site? There are plenty of other avenues to meet people with similar interests now. |
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#13
Mar 16, 2013, 07:14 PM
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My initial assumption was that people are in some sort of open relationships so they have taken care of various disclosure duties inside their marriages to the best of their abilities. That assumption was wrong and overly optimistic because I noticed that some of them (minority though) did not have pictures. So, they were in hiding. Still, it is one thing to hide because you lack communication skills to address understandable issues such as boredom etc. with your partner, and, possibly, in the event of discovery, harm the partner whose expectations did not fit the reality, and, in turn, cause distrust, which then may cause deterioration of the relationship (see how many steps and many maybes?) and another thing to actively want to harm the partner as OP's SO did. OP's SO was not interested in the looks or the personalities of the women on the dating site per se; nor was he wanting to make friends; he was instead hedging. The women on the dating site were simply tools of his preemptive vengeance (most likely, completely unbeknownst to them). The sequence of events was as follows: OP+SO "had a fight when he confronted me on my distance and I confessed that I was having these doubts". In response, he opened the profile, because he was scared that she would leave him first, and he was not up to the challenge of tolerating being rejected. He did not want to be the passive recipient of abandonment but instead chose to be the agent of abandonment out of the cowardly desire to protect his vulnerable psyche (who needs such people in the first place??). This behavior was completely in line and consistent with his pattern of repeatedly asking her not to break his heart in the beginning of their relationship. So no news there. People who are simply bored are much more peaceful than that. The possible harm to their partners is incidental and collateral to the pursuit of distraction. OP's SO actively sought to hurt her. |
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#14
Mar 16, 2013, 07:27 PM
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pre-emptive strike - definition of pre-emptive strike by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
pre-emptive strike - a surprise attack that is launched in order to prevent the enemy from doing it to you Compare this with what OP's SO said: ""I thought you were going to break up with me, and I wasn't going to let you hurt me first" If it is not a pre-emptive strike, what is it? And SO did not tell her; she was humiliated when her gf discovered it. So there was a clear element of surprise. and, hurt = attack Fits the dictionary definition. |
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#15
Mar 16, 2013, 07:41 PM
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#16
Mar 17, 2013, 12:00 AM
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The problem is present in all of psychology and social sciences in general and even in. Seemingly non-social science called medicine because people's response to treatment is influenced by their beliefs. Plus there is the issue of the observer - in this case you reading the posts. Many centuries ago isaac newton found out that it was impossible to carry out some experiments with light because the presence of the observer influenced the course of the experiment. I learned it in hs physics class. Even either in nonsocial science the observer bias matters, what about human relationships? |
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#17
Mar 18, 2013, 03:57 AM
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Open relationships/swinging/polyamorous relationships are a minority. There is still a lot if trust involved in these relationships.
The behavior is seen as malicious in certain instances. Dating websites are created with a certain intention. They are made to help people meet up and find potential partners. (Could be as short as a few hours to lifelong). There are different DATING sites for different niches. They can be based on ethnic, religious, kinks or personality. These websites have a specific intention. If your partner is 'bored' and you have marriage problems, getting involved with someone else is not going to help. The purpose of the website itself should indicate what type of behavior you would expect on said website. You are right -- there is bias in everything. There is observed bias from every individual but that doesn't mean you can't discern morals. (Which are based off beliefs...lol) I agree with the rest of your statement. |
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#18
Mar 18, 2013, 08:34 PM
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A bored person opening a dating site profile does so hoping that his/her partner would not find out. There is still a risk that the partner would find out and get hurt (either by the intent, or the behavior, or the lack of transparency, or a combination of those). To disregard such risk amounts to something on the continuum between carelessness and recklessness (depending on...), but still would not amount to malice. Definition of RECKLESS 1 : marked by lack of proper caution : careless of consequences Definition of MALICE 1 : desire to cause pain, injury, or distress to another |
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#19
Mar 19, 2013, 12:58 AM
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I understand why you would say that it is on the continuum between carelessness and recklessness, though. There could be no intent to cause harm with the behavior but from the point of view of the individual "catching" they will see the behavior as malicious. I don't think the "carelessness and recklessness" should void the individual of responsibility of their actions though and this forum has proven that "emotional cheating" is as damaging as "physical cheating".
I guess you have to look at it from both perspectives and I was only looking at it from the "potentially cheated" one.
__________________
"You got to fight those gnomes...tell them to get out of your head!" |
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#20
Mar 19, 2013, 01:16 PM
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#21
Mar 19, 2013, 01:37 PM
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Except we aren't talking about laws, but human emotions.
The person being hurt isn't going to think long enough to put it on this continuum. Human emotions are fragile and it's easy to make assumptions about behavior then look at it objectively. |
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#22
Mar 19, 2013, 01:52 PM
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#23
Mar 19, 2013, 02:12 PM
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If the problem is that the guy wants to HURT me, then there is absolutely nothing that is in MY power to do about that. So I would not be able to salvage anything. So either I leave or I do nothing waiting for his desire to hurt me to go away by itself. Would it go away by itself? Given the insistence with which OP's SO repeatedly asked her not to break his heart, this particular guy would probably continue to want to hurt her, because the risk of being hurt appears to be on his mind non-stop as his top priority, and pre-emptive strike is the only way he knows how to use to deal with the risk. |
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#24
Mar 19, 2013, 04:06 PM
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Why would the guy even list he was married on the dating site and that he was bored with his current partner? How could the partner finding it discern between the two?
In her case he has done it as a preemptive stike. In most cases there may not be a preemptive strike to something else but that doesn't stop the 'victim' from being hurt. (I don't know if victim is the right word). Do you not know how much it would still hurt if a partner told you they are bored of you??? (Outside of the context of this situation) Even when I've had friends tell me that (through gossip or otherwise) I've been really hurt... |
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#25
Mar 19, 2013, 04:40 PM
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I agree, I would not want to be called boring.
In regards to the 5-10% of dating site members who are married and do not hide it, I believe they do so in order to avoid misleading those who use dating sites primarily to find a new spouse. I am not saying that this necessarily is done out of a pure desire to be. Transparent. More likely, they do not want to waste their own time. |
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This is an old thread. You probably should not post your reply to it, as the original poster is unlikely to see it.|
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