[Zipzap61Y]

Hey all, I'm new here and having some relationship issues.

I've been seeing this woman for about a month and a half now. When we first met, she mentioned that she hadn't smoked pot for quite a few years. When we were together a couple of weekends ago, she said that she keeps a small stash of pot around 'for emergencies' when one of her male friends (she has several such friends that she claims are purely platonic) comes for a visit, and he wants to smoke up. This alone leaves me feeling like she may not be capable of making a commitment to anyone.

She claims that she grew up as a bit of a tomboy, doesn't like dealing with most women, and so prefers to have men as friends. However, the length of time she seems to be spending with some of them really has me wondering if they're really and truly platonic friendships.

Drugs are a deal-breaker for me; I don't do drugs of any kind or drink. My dislike of pot stems from having smoked pot when I was in my teens and having had a severely unpleasant experience with it. The experience was so difficult that even today I find I get very uncomfortable being around anyone who smokes it, and even more so being in a room or other enclosed space where someone is smoking it. Plus, I don't know if I can trust her now when she told me she wasn't doing drugs, and is now saying she's doing them. Bottom line, I don't want anything to do with recreational drugs or people who do them.

In addition to all of this, it seems like she may have a mental illness of some sort since she recently admitted to taking two antidepressants and an antipsychotic at the same time. A counselor I saw a while back suggested that she might have delusional disorder, after I described some of her behaviors. I've done some research on her possible condition, and the behaviors definitely seem to line up with the kind of mental illness the counselor suggested might be afflicting her.

Suffice it to say that her values and mine aren't meshing right now, although I haven't brought up the subject of her drug use with her. I didn't say anything on the last weekend we were together because I didn't want to start a fight and ruin the weekend.

I'm also concerned that with her male friends and the mental illness, I may be going down a rabbit hole with unknown dangers if I continue to see her.

That said, I think it's time for me to let her go and move on. The hard part of this is that she has been quite kind and loving to me, and on an intellectual plane at least, we're like kindred spirits.

[Odee]

Originally Posted by Zipzap61Y

Suffice it to say that her values and mine aren't meshing right now,

That. That's all you need. Just explain that to her, kindly, and move on.


(psst, about two antidepressants and an antipsychotic. Medication combos are extremely common in the MI world and don't necessarily reflect the severity of the condition. She's getting treatment and that means something.)

[hamster-bamster]

I must say that your use of language does not seem to be in line with your being a member on this site. A lot to members of this site take anti-depressants and anti-psychotics. It is not a crime to do so, so there is nothing to ADMIT. You said that she admitted to taking two AD's and one AP. By the way, these days AP's are often prescribed for bipolar without any delusional component and not just for schizophrenia - did the counselor you consulted with educate you on the modern indications for the use of AP's?

I do not know whether your use of the verb "admit" rather than "mention", "tell", or any other neutral alternative is just out of habit, or, is representative of a belief you hold. If the former, then never mind. If the latter, then I would caution you against starting to talk about your "values" to her until you have worked with your system of beliefs and figured out that taking psychiatric medications is not a crime.

Ugh...that's sad.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Zipzap61Y

Drugs are a deal-breaker for me; I don't do drugs of any kind or drink. My dislike of pot stems from having smoked pot when I was in my teens and having had a severely unpleasant experience with it. The experience was so difficult that even today I find I get very uncomfortable being around anyone who smokes it, and even more so being in a room or other enclosed space where someone is smoking it. Plus, I don't know if I can trust her now when she told me she wasn't doing drugs, and is now saying she's doing them. Bottom line, I don't want anything to do with recreational drugs or people who do them.

...

Suffice it to say that her values and mine aren't meshing right now, although I haven't brought up the subject of her drug use with her. I didn't say anything on the last weekend we were together because I didn't want to start a fight and ruin the weekend.

I'm also concerned that with her male friends and the mental illness, I may be going down a rabbit hole with unknown dangers if I continue to see her.

Since she has been treating you with affection per your OP, I would tread lightly and think carefully before you phrase your announcement (that you are breaking up with her) to her. I would not even mention the word "values" because it sounds a bit righteous, and, it is not clear that what is involved is a difference in "values". Values are something very important - say, I value friendships a lot - A LOT - and if, say, somebody were to come in and claim that my friendships with guys (granted, they are mostly long-distance unlike in your gf's case, but I have a lot of friends among guys younger than me, older than me, and my age, and most of those friendships go back a couple of decades or even more) were not acceptable to him, I would tell him to please look for other partners because the value of my friendships is super high to me so I won't give up something that has such a high value to me for anything.

In your case, it does not seem to be that you have values - rather, you have intolerance. You cannot tolerate the presence of marijuana smokers. I get that - I absolutely cannot tolerate second hand tobacco smoke. Nowadays exposure to second hand tobacco smokes triggers migraine attacks, and when I was a child, I had chronic, severe respiratory infections because I lived with a chain smoking father who smoked in the apartment and in the car. So I am done with that and I do not tolerate it and it is a dealbreaker for me in terms of the state of residence - I live in a state that has laws that prohibit smoking in restaurants and inside business offices, and I am happy with that. I do not want to live in a country or a state that does not have such laws. But it is not my value - it is my intolerance. Or, put the opposite way, preference. You used the word expression "a deal breaker" - that is actually perfect. It is a statement that is clear, concise, unequivocal, and yet non-judgmental without that unpleasant aftertaste of righteousness. So use that - tell her that drug use is a deal breaker for you so, sorry as you may feel, you must depart and are wishing her well.

I am not exactly sure she deceived you with respect to her drug use, because marijuana is not considered a drug by many people. Or, it is considered a "soft" drug. At any rate, it is not cocaine or heroine, and for many people the word "drugs" conjures up images of cocaine, etc. Unless you were very clear, she might not have known that you meant all drugs, including marijuana. So I would give her the benefit of the doubt and just tell her that you cannot tolerate what you cannot tolerate and call it quits at that.

Sorry to hear what otherwise seems good is not working out due to deal breakers! I hope you will find an affectionate partner who does not do any drugs soon.

[Odee]

Hamster: You don't have to slam down on this guy. His situation is pretty simple: his values involve avoiding recreational drugs and it's perfectly fine to search for a partner who shares that. It's not intolerance, there is nothing wrong with his believe system. He obviously doesn't hate the people who do drugs -- he's obviously befriending them, and that is important that he can treat people with different values with respect (meaning he's not intolerant!) -- but he can allowed to dislike dating a person involved in them.

The mention of medication was pretty passing as well. It was not a big deal. As much as it hurts us to be turned away for our conditions, it's not fair for others to have to deal with untreated symptoms. If OP is struggling with those symptoms, making it a conflicting relationship, there is a certain extent where he should help, and then there's the line where he has to move on and she takes care of her own health.

However, it doesn't seem to me that OP's main gripe was mental health. It seemed to me to involve marijuana. Marijuana is not some uncontrollable mental illness, it is a choice that OP does not find congruent with his values and OP is allowed to not date someone who doesn't share that.

Thank you Odee

[hamster-bamster]

Odee - OP is, in general, allowed to do whatever he wants as long as he does not violate the rights of others. As an example, he is allowed not to date anybody he does not want to date. I never questioned that - I questioned the need to come across as self-righteous in announcing the break-up. So I did not suggest he try to stay in that relationship, but offered a more polite and considerate way to break up.

"having untreated symptoms" and "being on medications" are not the same thing (in theory, they are the exact opposites of one another, although this is only in theory). The woman said that she takes psychiatric medications. That she has untreated symptoms was a speculation on the part of OP which was bolstered by his own counselor. A speculation is just that - a speculation. We do not know if OP is struggling with any symptoms - we have zero information (speculation is not information).

OP is intolerant as he explained - he explained that he had bad experiences himself that led him to his current worldview. How is that a "value" or a "belief"? It is neither - he is acting on his own experiences which were highly negative - so negative that not only did he decide not to smoke pot himself, but also he decided not to be around people who do. "preference", sure, "decision/choice", sure, but not a "value" or a "belief". He is acting based on his experience - in other words, he is reacting to his experience. This has nothing to do with "beliefs".

To tell this woman that he does not like her "values" is self-righteous (self-righteousness is a pretty horrible trait and unless you really must be self-righteous, it is better to avoid being self-righteous). Hence I recommended a neutral way to phrase the break-up announcement, and in making that recommendation, I used one of the words OP himself used - a "deal-breaker". Saying that something is a deal-breaker correctly places the entire responsibility for the break-up on the OP - it is a deal-breaker for HIM. He gets to decide what is and is not a deal-breaker for HIM. Using this terminology, unlike the "value" terminology, does not in any way place responsibility on the woman, or, results in judging the woman, and as such is preferable, because if a non-judgmental option exists, it is always preferable to being judgmental (in any way).

I actually walk the walk rather than talk the talk - I stopped making any comments about smoking to smokers other than stating that they should not smoke in my presence. I used to make such comments, but stopped entirely: I make no comments that would mean that I want them to stop, change their ways, consider the health risks, or anything else. It is entirely their life, their choices, etc. and none of my business. I simply state that I do not tolerate second hand tobacco smoke, which is a statement about ME, and not them. A neutral statement that does not fault them.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Odee

Hamster: You don't have to slam down on this guy. His situation is pretty simple: his values involve avoiding recreational drugs and it's perfectly fine to search for a partner who shares that. It's not intolerance, there is nothing wrong with his believe system. He obviously doesn't hate the people who do drugs -- he's obviously befriending them, and that is important that he can treat people with different values with respect (meaning he's not intolerant!)

He is intolerant of being around people who smoke pot, which has nothing to do with being intolerant of the people who smoke pot. I phrased it like this in my previous post:

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

You cannot tolerate the presence of marijuana smokers.

Not "people" but the "presence of people". A big difference - night and day.

Also, it is incorrect to say that he is befriending people who do drugs (parenthetically - again, the softness of marijuana makes it unclear whether this particular woman does drugs, but I will use your language anyway). He befriended the woman because he believed that she did not do drugs. I do agree though that he does not hate people who do drugs - he just wants to stay clear of them. But he very clearly is not "obviously befriending" them - this relationship occurred because of a miscommunication (if you take the view that she thought he was anti hard drugs only) or because of her misleading him (if you take the view that she understood that he meant "marijuana inclusive" and intentionally lied to him). Whether it was a neutral miscommunication or intentional misleading, it was a mistake (mis-communication/mis-leading/mis-take) and he is very clear on that - it was a mistake. So no conclusions can be drawn about OP's "obviously befriending" them - he befriended one such person by mistake. "obviously befriending" would mean befriending many such people with full knowledge of their drug use - nothing approaches that in OP's reality.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Zipzap61Y

I've been seeing this woman for about a month and a half now. When we first met, she mentioned that she hadn't smoked pot for quite a few years. When we were together a couple of weekends ago, she said that she keeps a small stash of pot around 'for emergencies' when one of her male friends (she has several such friends that she claims are purely platonic) comes for a visit, and he wants to smoke up. This alone leaves me feeling like she may not be capable of making a commitment to anyone.
...

That said, I think it's time for me to let her go and move on. The hard part of this is that she has been quite kind and loving to me, and on an intellectual plane at least, we're like kindred spirits.

Sorry, I reread and realized that she was the person who offered, on her own initiative, that she hadn't smoked pot for quite a few years and then changed her statement. So she was misleading you and you are justified in feeling irked.

I applaud you for appreciating her loving kindness towards you, as well as the commonality between you guys. I think it will be much easier for you to break up if you reciprocate her loving kindness by breaking up in the most polite, gentlest, and non-judgmental way - see suggestions on phrasing above. Make sure to acknowledge all the good things she has done to you (it seems that there have been a lot of good things, if over such a short period of time she has been able to impress you with her affection)... to acknowledge that you feel that she and you are kindred spirit... and to express some sadness over the fact that there is a deal breaker that outweighs those bad things. Hopefully you would then come across as kind, and the whole break-up thing won't be as hard for you as it is now. Stay on message - do not mention the speculations of your counselor, do not mention her male friends, do not mention that she misled you - rather, stay on message that you only date people who do not do any kind of drugs and do not consume alcohol (if the latter is applicable - I was not able to see whether you simply do not drink alcohol yourself, or, insist on dating people who also do not drink).

Finally, you might want to add that you do not want to impose your preferences on others and to change other people's ways, which is why you are not considering staying with her while asking her not to smoke pot. You prefer to date people who simply do not smoke pot on their own, and not out of a desire to meet your expectations. Say that to pre-empt a knee-jerk reaction that can otherwise come from her in the form of "I will abstain if you stay with me".

I would put it in writing because it is easier to stay on message this way.

I don't get what the issue is really - you've been together a month and a half and you've come to discover you're not suited romantically. Find a way to break up and if it's that important for her to remain in your life just try and be friends instead.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Spockette

I don't get what the issue is really - you've been together a month and a half and you've come to discover you're not suited romantically.

They are suited romantically - they are kindred spirit, at least on an intellectual plane, per OP, and, she has poured an unusual amount of affection on OP in a short period of time, also per OP. So there is not an issue of being not suited romantically - the issue is completely separate from that, and that is why it probably seems so hard to break up with this woman, precisely because they ARE suitable - and very much so - in purely romantic terms.

[Zipzap61Y]

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

Sorry, I reread and realized that she was the person who offered, on her own initiative, that she hadn't smoked pot for quite a few years and then changed her statement. So she was misleading you and you are justified in feeling irked.

I applaud you for appreciating her loving kindness towards you, as well as the commonality between you guys. I think it will be much easier for you to break up if you reciprocate her loving kindness by breaking up in the most polite, gentlest, and non-judgmental way - see suggestions on phrasing above. Make sure to acknowledge all the good things she has done to you (it seems that there have been a lot of good things, if over such a short period of time she has been able to impress you with her affection)... to acknowledge that you feel that she and you are kindred spirit... and to express some sadness over the fact that there is a deal breaker that outweighs those bad things. Hopefully you would then come across as kind, and the whole break-up thing won't be as hard for you as it is now. Stay on message - do not mention the speculations of your counselor, do not mention her male friends, do not mention that she misled you - rather, stay on message that you only date people who do not do any kind of drugs and do not consume alcohol (if the latter is applicable - I was not able to see whether you simply do not drink alcohol yourself, or, insist on dating people who also do not drink).

Finally, you might want to add that you do not want to impose your preferences on others and to change other people's ways, which is why you are not considering staying with her while asking her not to smoke pot. You prefer to date people who simply do not smoke pot on their own, and not out of a desire to meet your expectations. Say that to pre-empt a knee-jerk reaction that can otherwise come from her in the form of "I will abstain if you stay with me".

I would put it in writing because it is easier to stay on message this way.

Thank you for your supportive words and suggestions. I just sent her an email outlining my concerns. I don't like having to do this by email because it seems so impersonal, but in light of the circumstances, doing it that way was a good suggestion for you to make. Sometimes when I get emotional, I can't always get the words I need to get out without saying the wrong thing somewhere down the line.

As for my earlier comments about this woman being on a number of psychiatric drugs, I only brought up that issue to give readers a sense of her general situation. If anything, I worry that her use of pot will only worsen her condition, given the kind of medication she's taking. I've heard that some people who are taking the same kind of drugs and smoke pot experience no problems at all, while others see their condition dramatically worsening. I certainly didn't mean to suggest that I think that anyone taking such medication is a criminal. I've taken some psychiatric drugs myself in the distant past, fortunately for brief periods.