[sapphirefish]

Hello everyone. This is my first time to post on this forum. I tried searching for some other answers to this problem, but I can't really find anything, so here goes.

I have been dating a really wonderful guy for almost 9 months. He has many of the qualities I have always wanted in a man. He treats me like a queen too. However, he has some anger issues. Not with me, with other people. Before I go into detail about his anger, I want to make something very clear. He has never once said anything negative towards me or threatened me in anyway. He & I have had a few arguments throughout our relationship (some more serious than others), and he has never said or done anything to make me afraid. We always get through our arguments coming out better in our relationship than before.

However, there are a couple of people in his life that he is very angry at. I understand why he is angry at them, however it makes me scared when I hear him bring them up and what he would do to them if he ever saw them again. I am very much against violence and he knows how much it bothers me. I can't even really watch extremely violent movies, because some of them disturb me. However, he loves violent movies and says that it appeals to his dark side. He told me once a long time ago he had a dark side and he was afraid I wouldn't like it. Usually he only talks about it when he is tipsy or drunk. On the other hand, he is one of the calmest and most rational people I know when sober.

The first time any of this "dark side" came out was after his work Christmas party. One of his coworkers asked me to dance. It just happened to be someone he didn't like very much. On our way home that night, he was pretty drunk, and kept telling me how angry it made him that he was dancing with me. He then proceeded to give me gory details of how he wanted to kill him and what he would do. I told him that I didn't like him talking that way and he eventually stopped. It really frightened me to hear him say that because I never imagined he would want to hurt someone that badly. When he was sober the next day, we discussed it in great detail. He told me he would never really do that to someone because he is not crazy and wouldn't want to ruin his life. However, he was angry at the guy because he treated him poorly at work. He had even mentioned going to talk to someone about it because it bothered him. A couple of months later, someone at his work insulted him in a different way, and while we were watching a movie with some fighting, my guy started going on how he really wanted to beat the guy he works with in the ground like Rocky was doing.

Fast forward to this past weekend, and my boyfriend and I are watching movies. We were drinking some wine, and I fell asleep during the movie we were watching. When that one was over, he put on another movie he wanted to watch, which was particularly violent. I woke up to this movie already a little disturbed because I feel that way waking up in the middle of the night, and there is a lot of killing in this movie. I mentioned to him I didn't like the movie, but he didn't turn it off at first. He was pretty drunk on wine by this point and basically told me that he wished he could do some of the violent things in the movies to one of ex's that really betrayed him. I could understand his anger because she did some horrible and seemingly unforgivable things to him, but I could understand why he would think of killing her. I told him that it really scared me to hear him talking that way and he ended up turning the movie off.

The next day we talked about it, and he said he really didn't mean to scare me, and he hoped I didn't think of him differently. However, he felt what she did to him was unforgivable. He said if he ever saw her again it wouldn't be pretty. I told him he needed to forgive her because it had been a long time and he needed to stop carrying this weight around. But he said he couldn't. He said he really didn't know what else to tell me except he was sorry. I mentioned to him that it really scared me because what if I ever made him angry and he got violent? He told me he would never do anything to hurt me. A part of me believes him, because I feel like this is really toward people who have outright disrespected him and have done horrible things, and he just wants to protect me. I've never even seen him physically do anything to express his anger, just verbally. However, there's a part of me I can't deny that his anger scares me a little.

I really don't know if there is anything I can do to help him? I don't want to break up with him, because I love him very much and I know he's a good person, maybe even the man I could marry one day. It's just when he drinks and gets angry he starts to talk like this. Does anyone have any advice or experience on this topic?

[healingme4me]

I am curious, why you started off the post, with a disclaimer. Has someone in your offline life, mentioned something to that effect?

Perhaps, the intent isn't to come across, as intimidating, but I'd find threats towards others, as a form of intimidation, hence, perhaps, why you are now, wondering in the back of your mind and even expressed to him, a concern about what ifs'.

I don't have much advice to give, per se. Well, if I did, you probably wouldn't want to hear it.

Is he addressing this dark side and anger, with anyone other than yourself? Is this only when he's been drinking?

[marszy]

This would be a good one for Dear Abby.. You don't want to hear what I think...

[sapphirefish]

Originally Posted by healingme4me

I am curious, why you started off the post, with a disclaimer. Has someone in your offline life, mentioned something to that effect?

Perhaps, the intent isn't to come across, as intimidating, but I'd find threats towards others, as a form of intimidation, hence, perhaps, why you are now, wondering in the back of your mind and even expressed to him, a concern about what ifs'.

I don't have much advice to give, per se. Well, if I did, you probably wouldn't want to hear it.

Is he addressing this dark side and anger, with anyone other than yourself? Is this only when he's been drinking?

I have only mentioned some of this to one of my best friends. She said she thinks it's normal for a lot of people when they are angry with someone to think about hurting them or wanting them to be hurt. I don't find it normal. I don't know why I posted a disclaimer, I was really trying to give insight into what he is normally like, which is stable and good natured. And I'd really like some advice, what's the point in saying I wouldn't want your advice if you won't give it? Taunting me is useless.

[Yoda]

Everyone experiences anger. But there are healthy ways of expressing anger and unhealthy ways.

You asked if anyone has advice or experience. I lived for nine years with a man who in the beginning was gentle and kind to me. We argued but I was not scared of him early in the relationship similar to what you expressed you have in your relationship. He got angry at our neighbor who cut our fence and put a tree stand up to hunt on our land without our permission. He had a right to be angry but as I said how you deal with that anger is important. My BF talked about what he wanted to do to our neighbor. He threatened my ex-husband too and was stalking him for a bit. It was several years of living together before he turned his anger toward me. He wasn't reasonable and I tried to soothe him because we were "in love" and I wanted to keep that loving part of him and thought if I loved him enough things would be okay. But he got progressively worse and it ended badly.

Since then I have listened more to my gut feeling when I meet someone. I met a guy through my cousin and we started chatting in my yard one day when he was driving by on his motorcycle. At one point I mentioned my horse that I love dearly and pointed toward the field where he was grazing. This guy said he had been around horses some and sometimes you have to smack them on the head if they are being difficult. I said hitting a horse would only make him fearful but he said it was the right way. That was all I needed to hear. If he would be mean to a horse that was acting up he would likely be mean to a woman if he thought she needed it. I didn't continue the conversation but just turned and walked through my yard and went into my house and locked the door behind me. I don't know nor care what he thought of that but my gut said he was bad news.

That is my experience.

You asked for advice. My advice is don't waste another moment with this man who acknowledges he has a dark side and fantasizes violent acts towards those who anger him.

[sapphirefish]

Originally Posted by healingme4me

I am curious, why you started off the post, with a disclaimer. Has someone in your offline life, mentioned something to that effect?

[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]I put that out there, because I see all the sides of him that someone who may not know him sees and can look at things from that point of view. The majority of what I see is good ans stable. I don't see any rational reason to be afraid of him since he always treats me well and has never threatened me personally. [/COLOR]

Originally Posted by healingme4me

Perhaps, the intent isn't to come across, as intimidating, but I'd find threats towards others, as a form of intimidation, hence, perhaps, why you are now, wondering in the back of your mind and even expressed to him, a concern about what ifs'.

[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]So you think it sounds like he might be trying to intimidate me in some unconscious way?[/COLOR]

Originally Posted by healingme4me

Is he addressing this dark side and anger, with anyone other than yourself? Is this only when he's been drinking?

I don't know if he's ever told anyone else, but it seems to be something he doesn't want everyone to know. And this only comes out when he is drinking. Although the other day when we were talking about forgiveness, he was sober and was still expressing that he was angry with this girl because she took so much from him that he can't get back.

[Rose76]

I think this guy is jerkin' your chain. He gets some kind of satisfaction out of telling you scary things. Basically, he has found a way to make you feel intimidated, and he's getting off on it.

You might want to consider stopping him from using you as an audience for sick talk. Just cut him off the second he starts talking about violence. Have zero tolerance for it. Be unwilling to be with him when he does this kind of talking. Also, refuse to watch movies with him that you find disturbing, or that escalate his expression of fantasies of violence.

Don't keep telling him that the talk about violence makes you scared. I think he is enjoying that. Just tell him that you don't want to hear that kind of stuff. He's doing this for drama; cut through the drama, and don't feed into it.

Basically, this talk he's doing about how he'ld like to do evil to his ex's is his way of warning you not to cross him in the way he feels his ex's have done. He's really threatening you. You'ld be smart to dump this guy, IMHO.

[marmaduke]

As long as you do not feel afraid of your b/f and he does not have a history of violence. I would say don't worry about this.
He is just letting off steam.

You see, I HATE my mother. I HATE her. She ruined my life, f##king ruined it. I will NEVER be the person I should have been.
When drunk, I can say some terrible things, shocking things. My partner tells me 'That's enough. Stop it. He is shocked, embarrassed that I would say such things about my mother.

The next morning I regret saying those things, not because I don't mean them, but because I know he doesn't get it, other people don't get it. I am frightened they will now believe I am a horrible person or a crazy.
It makes me angry they don't get it. It makes me angry I didn't have a normal mother and they did.
My partner had a good mother, he was loved, and her loved her.
Its not fair. That's my thoughts, its not fair. But then life is often unfair.

So I must bury my real feelings toward my mother, even pretend I like her, that care for her. I realize that makes me sound more normal.

I'm not normal though. I'm damaged.

Anyway, I'm rambling.

If you love him, and he loves you try to understand, he has issues. Somewhere along the line he has been very hurt.
Has he got a good relationship with his family? I suspect these anger problems are deep rooted in childhood.

He told me once a long time ago he had a dark side and he was afraid I wouldn't like it.
I find the fact he has self awareness a good sign, many really bad people would never admit they are anything but perfect.
Would he consider anger management therapy? It might be a good idea.

Agree with other posters though, if you do feel threatened, you should get outta there.

[marmaduke]

Yoda, did your b/f ever admit he had a dark side?

I would never trust anyone who hurt an animal. Big Red Flags, your gut instinct was right on that one.

[sapphirefish]

Originally Posted by sapphirefish

And I'd really like some advice, what's the point in saying I wouldn't want your advice if you won't give it? Taunting me is useless.

Originally Posted by marszy

This would be a good one for Dear Abby.. You don't want to hear what I think...

My first response was really more in response to Marszy...

Originally Posted by Yoda

Everyone experiences anger. But there are healthy ways of expressing anger and unhealthy ways.

You asked for advice. My advice is don't waste another moment with this man who acknowledges he has a dark side and fantasizes violent acts towards those who anger him.

Thank you for your advice and sharing your experience. I will consider it as I think this through.

Originally Posted by Rose76

I think this guy is jerkin' your chain. He gets some kind of satisfaction out of telling you scary things. Basically, he has found a way to make you feel intimidated, and he's getting off on it.

Basically, this talk he's doing about how he'd like to do evil to his ex's is his way of warning you not to cross him in the way he feels his ex's have done. He's really threatening you. You'ld be smart to dump this guy, IMHO.

This makes sense. I'll also take your advice into consideration.

Originally Posted by marmaduke

As long as you do not feel afraid of your b/f and he does not have a history of violence. I would say don't worry about this.
He is just letting off steam.

You see, I HATE my mother. I HATE her. She ruined my life, f##king ruined it. I will NEVER be the person I should have been.
When drunk, I can say some terrible things, shocking things. My partner tells me 'That's enough. Stop it. He is shocked, embarrassed that I would say such things about my mother.

The next morning I regret saying those things, not because I don't mean them, but because I know he doesn't get it, other people don't get it. I am frightened they will now believe I am a horrible person or a crazy.
It makes me angry they don't get it. It makes me angry I didn't have a normal mother and they did.

Thank you as well for sharing your experience and giving some advice. I am not happy you feel this way, but it is good to know he may not be the only experiencing this level of anger...

Originally Posted by marmaduke

If you love him, and he loves you try to understand, he has issues. Somewhere along the line he has been very hurt.
Has he got a good relationship with his family? I suspect these anger problems are deep rooted in childhood.

Would he consider anger management therapy? It might be a good idea.

Yes, I love him very much and I have definitely been able to put any short term fear aside. As I said before he is amazing the majority of the time I am with him. But I have definitely considered asking him again to get help if we continue on. He has a great relationship with his parents and visits them one - three times a week. I've also met them, and like them very much. they also like me very much. From what I understand, he had a normal, healthy childhood. I know his dad worked out of town a lot when he was growing up, and can be negative about certain things pertaining to the reality of life, but I can't see him having deep seated anger over this. Everything seems to be healthy with them now.

Originally Posted by marmaduke

Agree with other posters though, if you do feel threatened, you should get outta there.

Thank you again for your help. I am definitely keeping my eyes and ears open. I am trying to be really smart about this and not get caught up in the romance to keep me from making the right decision. However, I love him in so many ways for the person he is, and I know he loves me very much. If he were threatening me, I would definitely been gone already. But as it stands, he is always helping me and encouraging me. He never degrades me, he's a perfect gentleman. He checks up on me and takes care of me when I am sick. He also loves animals and is very concerned for their welfare. He even gets upsets when animals get hurt. So it's almost like it is so outside of him when he talks about these people that way. I also don't know if helps to share what really happened with the ex. She basically up and left him one day after she stole a lot of valuable things from him... Anyway, I have a lot of thinking to do and talking to this man. If anyone has anything else to say, please share. I'm definitely torn up over this.

First I would be more careful about jumping to the conclusions of some others that have said dump him, don't waste your time with this guy and stuff. Not that it's of no concern, please hear me out first.

Violent visualization and reality are two differnt things. I personally am not one that gets into fights or is violent with people when in a vengeful manner, in other words I don't go out to find someone that angered me in order to hurt them physically. If I were to end up in a fight it would be unavoidable and self defense personally. There's my disclaimer.

In spite of what I've said, I've vocalized such things about people that were so appalling in their behavior that my only way to clarify just how angry they made me was with idealizing hurting them in some way. Does not mean I'd do it, nor does it mean that I ruminate about it or anything, it's more making a point. I don't go around making off handed comments about someone I'm miffed at and say I'd like to maim or kill them or anything. But its a far cry from what a person would do that they would actually say such things. That he has mentioned these things are not what I would be concerned about.

First, obviously you think highly of him for some reason. Clearly all we are seeing is the issue at hand because frankly this forum is for posting problems, challenges and worries. So that is all we see. So I'm hesitant to jump to a conclusion that this is all about what he's like.

Questions I have are - how often does this happen, how vivid are his premeditations (imaginary or not) and does this happen only when he drinks?

First thing is, if it's often and the only way he voices anger, that he's quick to jump to violent ideas because of this anger, this is a problem. It should be addressed and he needs to learn to deal with his anger even if only in his mind, differently. If it's once in awhile and at extreme anger at something/someone that's not as unreasonable but still may be a problem.

Does he actually describe such violent acts in vivid detail? This would concern me also because it means he's taken the time to think about and imagine these things, which really makes me wonder if he does ruminate about such violence. Again, he needs to deal with this violent desire before at some point he really is angry, someone is there and he acts out. IF he's really thinking about when, how and why he would do them, what if that opportunity presents itself?

Lastly my biggest concern is the drinking. Seems like from your post he is reasonable in talking about the anger when he's sober, he apologizes and sees things in a less skewed way. When he's been drinking it seems like it comes out. My concern would be that maybe he shouldn't even be drinking or maybe you should not be around when he does so. I worry about what if this drunkenness and violent thinking escalates sometime when he's really out of control and drunk? YOu can't really tell him not to drink, it's not up to you but you can protect yourself from being around that violent thnking by being out of the picture when he's drinking.

As for the comment that he's getting a rise out of you by talking about violence and getting off on the idea of you being afraid, I say that there is no way to tell in what you've said whether that is happening and since it's when he's drinking that it happens, he apologizes for it later, it doesn't seem to me he's doing it to jerk your chain and mess with you. I think his inhibitions are down and anything on his mind just comes out when he's drunk. I would not jump to the conclusion that he's manipulating you by making you fearful. Just doesn't seem like that to me.

I would communicate with him more about it and see if he can talk more about why he thinks about such things. Find out if it's a major issue by feeling him out more in this area. I'm no ready to tell you this guy is a loser and you need to dump him.

[Rose76]

Back in olden times, it was well understood and accepted that the way a man talks around other men is not the same as the way a man talks around women. If a male didn't understand this, he would be considered a jerk by his fellow males.

Now we've gotten into this new social mindset, whereby women are supposed to understand that a man has to let off steam by saying whatever comes into his head and women need to understand that this is just emotional honesty. I say "Bull-do-do!" When a man flaunts his anger and morbid fantasies of violent retribution in front of his lady-love, he knows darn well that he is being intimidating. And he is choosing to have that effect.

You are looking to be this guy's girlfriend, not his psychiatrist or his therapist. It is not the job of women to sweet talk men out of their violent urges. It may seem like I am reaching some big conclusions based on a modest amount of information. Well, I am basing it on that, correlated with what I have learned through a lot of living. Some of the toughest guys I've known in life were the gentlest with women. Guys who talk tough like you're describing tend to be punks.

Another thing: I've heard the excuse from guys who talked nasty when they were drunk that "Oh Honey, it was just the beer talking." Baloney. Alcohol can sometimes reveal truth that gets covered up by a guy when he is sober. This guy is chronically pissed off and carrying a bunch of big chips on his shoulders about how victimized he has been. He is not a strong man. Pretty soon, if not already, you'll be weighing your words and walking on eggshells to avoid ruffling his feathers the wrong way. You'll find that gets pretty old.

Originally Posted by Rose76

Back in olden times, it was well understood and accepted that the way a man talks around other men is not the same as the way a man talks around women. If a male didn't understand this, he would be considered a jerk by his fellow males.

There is still some truth in this. I wouldn't argue against that there are things that would be more appropriate around women vs men. But fact is times have changed and today with as much of a push for equality it's made it difficult to hold to such values, which by the way I don't actually disagree with. Lines have been blurred in many ways, and to the demise of the social structure of our world.

Now we've gotten into this new social mindset, whereby women are supposed to understand that a man has to let off steam by saying whatever comes into his head and women need to understand that this is just emotional honesty. I say "Bull-do-do!" When a man flaunts his anger and morbid fantasies of violent retribution in front of his lady-love, he knows darn well that he is being intimidating. And he is choosing to have that effect.

I don't completely disagree with you but I would not go as far as to say that he is intentionally and knowingly being "intimidating" If it's not directed at the other person, it's not necessarily true that he realizes how bad it is coming out. It is true, if at such point that she made it clear to him that this was disturbing to her, that he is making a conscious choice to do so, but to assume he is trying to be intimidating is just assuming too much.

You are looking to be this guy's girlfriend, not his psychiatrist or his therapist. It is not the job of women to sweet talk men out of their violent urges. It may seem like I am reaching some big conclusions based on a modest amount of information. Well, I am basing it on that, correlated with what I have learned through a lot of living. Some of the toughest guys I've known in life were the gentlest with women. Guys who talk tough like you're describing tend to be punks.

Again there is some truth to what you're saying and there really is a time and a place for certain talk. Tough does not mean lack of the ability to be gentle when necessary. Well maybe I should reword that. Being a MAN does not equate to being tough to everyone and macho. It means being able to be tough when necessary but gentle at times too and with the appropriate people, namely, your female partner/so/wife.

I don't know if it was from my post that your reply about being the guy's therapist. I agree that that's not what it should be. It's not her place to do this or "fix him", at all nor is it for a man to do for his lady either. But there is an amount of getting to know more about this anger that could be fleshed out for her to figure out if this is a real danger or not.

Another thing: I've heard the excuse from guys who talked nasty when they were drunk that "Oh Honey, it was just the beer talking." Baloney. Alcohol can sometimes reveal truth that gets covered up by a guy when he is sober. This guy is chronically pissed off and carrying a bunch of big chips on his shoulders about how victimized he has been. He is not a strong man. Pretty soon, if not already, you'll be weighing your words and walking on eggshells to avoid ruffling his feathers the wrong way. You'll find that gets pretty old.

When I mentioned the drunkenness, i don't think I was clear in my point. I agree 100% that it is no excuse for it. What I do disagree with is that a person has inner feelings that are hindered by social norms and etiquette and much of that can go away from alcohol. My reply is two fold. First off, if this comes out when he's drunk, perhaps it's a sign of some things tht he's thinking at other times but does not voice. I make no excuses for this guy. If this is something he says when drunk not only is it a problem with perhaps inside he is far more violent than he lets on, but also that when he is drunk at what point does he actually really lose it and carry out something that he's going to regret?

I don't want to make it sound like I am minimizing this behavior at all. What I am saying is that it's something to be wary of, if she's not sure of things with this guy, she needs to be cautious at best. I do see that there is potential in that this guy may become violent. I just don't write off people as quickly and judge them as easily without enough detail.

[Rose76]

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

I just don't write off people as quickly and judge them as easily without enough detail.

S4ndm4an, I respect what you are saying and your earnestness about wanting to be fair with people. Criteria that make sense to you, as a man, in the way you evaluate other men, may not be totally applicable to what is appropriate for a woman. I say that because women have a long and thick history of rationalizing anti-social behavior on the part of men with the feeling that "I can love him out of this. He just needs to get from me the love he's not had."

I have never, ever met a woman who said, "Gee, I gave up being with this great guy because I mistakenly thought he had unacceptable anger issues. Come to find out, he is actually a teddy bear inside a gruff exterior, and I could have had a marvelous life with him like his current lady has." I've never met anyone with that narrative.

I have met lots of women who have said, "Gee, I never really believed he would actually hurt me because he swore he never would, and now my life is awful with him, and I wish I had seen the signs earlier. I kinda did, but he told me I could trust him, and I really thought I could, but now I don't."

The O.P. has said she loves this guy. That tells me that she is already disposed to bending over backwards to explain away and rationalize all the crap he's coming out with. "His last woman did him wrong, poor guy. He's so insecure. He's so sensitive. I just want to take him in my arms and comfort him." This is how women think, and this is how women get into awful bad trouble and live miserable lives. You don't have to tell a woman in love to be fair to a guy. She is already doing that to death. Already, this O.P. sees herself walking down the aisle with this guy. I guess I am trying to counter-balance that tendency.

He only scares her a little bit. She is wondering how scared does she have to get before she should say "this is not what I want." He's a great guy, except when he drinks . . . except when he's angry . . . except when she innocently dances with someone at a party . . . except when someone insults him . . . except when a romance doesn't go as he'ld hoped . . . except when he feels disrespected . . . except when he watches a violent movie . . . except when he gets aggravated at work. If you eliminate all these things that set him off, he is a really great guy. Well life is full of things that set people off. Right now he's in the throes of "new love." If he's this easily triggered now, wait till he has a baby screamin' in the next room and he gets a supervisor who criticizes him at work and he finds supporting a family tough to do and he finds that life just gets tougher, as you take on more responsibilities, and your body just gets older with each passing year.

I'm not saying that the destiny of the original poster is that she will get beaten up by this guy. If he has no history of physical violence, that is not the biggest risk. The biggest risk is that this guy can't roll with the punches and will be increasingly miserable with his lot in life, as he sees that it's probably not ever going to get easier. A resentful guy is never a good husband.

Nobody is clairvoyant and nobody has a magic crystal ball. There are probably lots of wonderful things about this guy that I don't know and appreciate. But, after re-reading the O.P.'s first post, I am even more convinced: This guy's a weenie.

You judge a person's character by how they handle adversity . . . not by how fine they seem when everything is going okay.

[healingme4me]

Originally Posted by Rose76

S4ndm4an, I respect what you are saying and your earnestness about wanting to be fair with people. .

I do want to ditto this sentiment. And do find it fair to have such perspectives, because it's a matter of making certain that to the best of our abilities, in reading another's personal perspective in relationships, that we aren't enabling or even perhaps encouraging the bashing of others, or even to encourage not to look at both role of self and role of partner in all of it.

I just question, on a personal level, how much benefit of the doubt has occurred in all my years of marriage and in divorcing, went on, around me. It still goes on, I know it does. Some feel my ex made a momentary error in judgment, without knowing the full history. Others vilified. Which, isn't necessary. Some vilify me, not fair.

Rose makes some excellent points, in this most recent post, worthy of the OP re-reading or reading.

Some of us, as indicated by responses, cite some red flags. It's up to the OP to decide, however, what is her truth.

[trying2survive]

Originally Posted by sapphirefish

Hello everyone. This is my first time to post on this forum. I tried searching for some other answers to this problem, but I can't really find anything, so here goes.

I have been dating a really wonderful guy for almost 9 months. He has many of the qualities I have always wanted in a man. He treats me like a queen too. However, he has some anger issues. Not with me, with other people. Before I go into detail about his anger, I want to make something very clear. He has never once said anything negative towards me or threatened me in anyway. He & I have had a few arguments throughout our relationship (some more serious than others), and he has never said or done anything to make me afraid. We always get through our arguments coming out better in our relationship than before.

However, there are a couple of people in his life that he is very angry at. I understand why he is angry at them, however it makes me scared when I hear him bring them up and what he would do to them if he ever saw them again. I am very much against violence and he knows how much it bothers me. I can't even really watch extremely violent movies, because some of them disturb me. However, he loves violent movies and says that it appeals to his dark side. He told me once a long time ago he had a dark side and he was afraid I wouldn't like it. Usually he only talks about it when he is tipsy or drunk. On the other hand, he is one of the calmest and most rational people I know when sober.

The first time any of this "dark side" came out was after his work Christmas party. One of his coworkers asked me to dance. It just happened to be someone he didn't like very much. On our way home that night, he was pretty drunk, and kept telling me how angry it made him that he was dancing with me. He then proceeded to give me gory details of how he wanted to kill him and what he would do. I told him that I didn't like him talking that way and he eventually stopped. It really frightened me to hear him say that because I never imagined he would want to hurt someone that badly. When he was sober the next day, we discussed it in great detail. He told me he would never really do that to someone because he is not crazy and wouldn't want to ruin his life. However, he was angry at the guy because he treated him poorly at work. He had even mentioned going to talk to someone about it because it bothered him. A couple of months later, someone at his work insulted him in a different way, and while we were watching a movie with some fighting, my guy started going on how he really wanted to beat the guy he works with in the ground like Rocky was doing.

Fast forward to this past weekend, and my boyfriend and I are watching movies. We were drinking some wine, and I fell asleep during the movie we were watching. When that one was over, he put on another movie he wanted to watch, which was particularly violent. I woke up to this movie already a little disturbed because I feel that way waking up in the middle of the night, and there is a lot of killing in this movie. I mentioned to him I didn't like the movie, but he didn't turn it off at first. He was pretty drunk on wine by this point and basically told me that he wished he could do some of the violent things in the movies to one of ex's that really betrayed him. I could understand his anger because she did some horrible and seemingly unforgivable things to him, but I could understand why he would think of killing her. I told him that it really scared me to hear him talking that way and he ended up turning the movie off.

The next day we talked about it, and he said he really didn't mean to scare me, and he hoped I didn't think of him differently. However, he felt what she did to him was unforgivable. He said if he ever saw her again it wouldn't be pretty. I told him he needed to forgive her because it had been a long time and he needed to stop carrying this weight around. But he said he couldn't. He said he really didn't know what else to tell me except he was sorry. I mentioned to him that it really scared me because what if I ever made him angry and he got violent? He told me he would never do anything to hurt me. A part of me believes him, because I feel like this is really toward people who have outright disrespected him and have done horrible things, and he just wants to protect me. I've never even seen him physically do anything to express his anger, just verbally. However, there's a part of me I can't deny that his anger scares me a little.

I really don't know if there is anything I can do to help him? I don't want to break up with him, because I love him very much and I know he's a good person, maybe even the man I could marry one day. It's just when he drinks and gets angry he starts to talk like this. Does anyone have any advice or experience on this topic?

this could be a dangerous and slippery slope, what happens if he feels YOU betrayed him someday?? he seems nice now, but as relationships get older
unexposed tendacies have a nasty habit of cropping up and coming to life.
it sounds like he really needs some anger management, also you are only hearing HIS side of the story of what his ex supposedly did to him. in my experience every story has 3 sides his side, her side and somewhere in the middle is the truth, b careful you might have a pandora's box on your hands.
good luck!

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by marmaduke

Yoda, did your b/f ever admit he had a dark side?

When he was abusive to me, no, it was never his fault. He blamed me for making him angry, making him lose control.

After the third or fourth time that he was jailed for domestic violence he went into rehab for his addictions and while he was there he wrote me a letter and apologized for his behavior. But within weeks of getting out of rehab he again threatened my life and assaulted me.

Sometimes I hesitate to give advice because I don't know how much danger the abused person is in and I don't think my story is the right way to handle abuse; there was no happy ending. Often I just post resources like the domestic violence hotline.

Originally Posted by Rose76

S4ndm4an, I respect what you are saying and your earnestness about wanting to be fair with people. Criteria that make sense to you, as a man, in the way you evaluate other men, may not be totally applicable to what is appropriate for a woman. I say that because women have a long and thick history of rationalizing anti-social behavior on the part of men with the feeling that "I can love him out of this. He just needs to get from me the love he's not had."

I have never, ever met a woman who said, "Gee, I gave up being with this great guy because I mistakenly thought he had unacceptable anger issues. Come to find out, he is actually a teddy bear inside a gruff exterior, and I could have had a marvelous life with him like his current lady has." I've never met anyone with that narrative.

I have met lots of women who have said, "Gee, I never really believed he would actually hurt me because he swore he never would, and now my life is awful with him, and I wish I had seen the signs earlier. I kinda did, but he told me I could trust him, and I really thought I could, but now I don't."

The O.P. has said she loves this guy. That tells me that she is already disposed to bending over backwards to explain away and rationalize all the crap he's coming out with. "His last woman did him wrong, poor guy. He's so insecure. He's so sensitive. I just want to take him in my arms and comfort him." This is how women think, and this is how women get into awful bad trouble and live miserable lives. You don't have to tell a woman in love to be fair to a guy. She is already doing that to death. Already, this O.P. sees herself walking down the aisle with this guy. I guess I am trying to counter-balance that tendency.

He only scares her a little bit. She is wondering how scared does she have to get before she should say "this is not what I want." He's a great guy, except when he drinks . . . except when he's angry . . . except when she innocently dances with someone at a party . . . except when someone insults him . . . except when a romance doesn't go as he'ld hoped . . . except when he feels disrespected . . . except when he watches a violent movie . . . except when he gets aggravated at work. If you eliminate all these things that set him off, he is a really great guy. Well life is full of things that set people off. Right now he's in the throes of "new love." If he's this easily triggered now, wait till he has a baby screamin' in the next room and he gets a supervisor who criticizes him at work and he finds supporting a family tough to do and he finds that life just gets tougher, as you take on more responsibilities, and your body just gets older with each passing year.

I'm not saying that the destiny of the original poster is that she will get beaten up by this guy. If he has no history of physical violence, that is not the biggest risk. The biggest risk is that this guy can't roll with the punches and will be increasingly miserable with his lot in life, as he sees that it's probably not ever going to get easier. A resentful guy is never a good husband.

Nobody is clairvoyant and nobody has a magic crystal ball. There are probably lots of wonderful things about this guy that I don't know and appreciate. But, after re-reading the O.P.'s first post, I am even more convinced: This guy's a weenie.

You judge a person's character by how they handle adversity . . . not by how fine they seem when everything is going okay.

You make some very good points and much of it I don't disagree with. I wont' go point by point as I sometimes do because it will get too long but suffice to say that I am not entirely in disagreement with you especially with your latest reply.

Thing is for the most part I was actually trying to say that this is, indeed something to be concerned about and it is a warning flag for her, but only that I don't like anyone making critical decisions (in either direction) without much thought on both sides.

Definitely not something to overlook or brush under the rug.

[Rose76]

I want to apologize for probably becoming a bit overbearing in my zeal to make my point. To: s4ndm3n: We probably are not far apart at all in what we think. (Not that we have to think alike.) As you say, this is something to be concerned about, but I really don't know that it's the ultimate "deal breaker." Only Saphire can decide that. If only perfect people could make lasting relationships, then everyone would stay single forever. This guy may be a "fixer-upper," and Saphire may be just the gal to tackle the task.

[marmaduke]

Originally Posted by marmaduke
Yoda, did your b/f ever admit he had a dark side?
When he was abusive to me, no, it was never his fault. He blamed me for making him angry, making him lose control.

I think that most abusers do not admit fault which is why they never change, why change if you are perfect?
My ex 'husband' was an abuser mostly verbal but occasionally he would shove, pinch, punch, Chinese burn. It was not unusual for him to 'lay the law down' tell me how useless, lazy, stupid, fat I was while jabbing a finger in my face, or holding his fist up as if about to punch.
He told me I had 's##t for brains'
He always blamed me. Always. Said if I didn't want him to behave like that then I 'shouldn't wind him up'
I walked on egg shells. Awful way to live. Dreadful father pretty much ignored the kids.
I wish I left him so so many years earlier.

I thought maybe as the OPs partner admitted fault there might be hope.

Saphire, will he go to therapy, anger management, if he will it would be a good sign.

[sapphirefish]

I wanted to write a response, as I have not in a few days. First of all, thank you everyone for your advice. Some of it I agree with, some of it, I am not so sure. I have been through a lot of emotions all week. Since he and I don't see each other until the weekend, I've been able to process all of it. As I have said before, he has never been anything but loving towards me, so I don't feel an immediate threat, thank goodness. I am still concerned the anger could somehow turn on me one day. I have read a lot. This article has really helped me. "So You Love An Angry Person - article by Dr. Lynne" (You can find it online) I've also talked about it again with my best friend who knows him very well. She thinks we need to discuss it, but she really believes we should try working on it before we get to that point because it may not be fully understood yet (which I tend to agree with). I'm feeling stronger about it, and not as afraid so I feel ready to speak with him about it. He's always open to discussing problems with me, so I don't feel like it's going to be a problem, but who knows? I am going to be looking for the right time to do so. In general, he is a relatively healthy person, and I really believe he will be able to face this side of himself. If not, I may have to break things off. Although I don't know what will happen in the furture, I am confident I will not be tolerating that kind of talk any longer.

[trying2survive]

Originally Posted by sapphirefish

I wanted to write a response, as I have not in a few days. First of all, thank you everyone for your advice. Some of it I agree with, some of it, I am not so sure. I have been through a lot of emotions all week. Since he and I don't see each other until the weekend, I've been able to process all of it. As I have said before, he has never been anything but loving towards me, so I don't feel an immediate threat, thank goodness. I am still concerned the anger could somehow turn on me one day. I have read a lot. This article has really helped me. "So You Love An Angry Person - article by Dr. Lynne" (You can find it online) I've also talked about it again with my best friend who knows him very well. She thinks we need to discuss it, but she really believes we should try working on it before we get to that point because it may not be fully understood yet (which I tend to agree with). I'm feeling stronger about it, and not as afraid so I feel ready to speak with him about it. He's always open to discussing problems with me, so I don't feel like it's going to be a problem, but who knows? I am going to be looking for the right time to do so. In general, he is a relatively healthy person, and I really believe he will be able to face this side of himself. If not, I may have to break things off. Although I don't know what will happen in the furture, I am confident I will not be tolerating that kind of talk any longer.

good for you! it sounds like you got a good handle on things, i hope things work out for you guys, good luck!

[Rose76]

One of the things you might want to notice is: Does he talk this dark stuff around other people, or only when he is alone with you? If he saves it up just for you, that could mean he knows he is out of line and testing to see what you'll put up with.

[marmaduke]

am confident I will not be tolerating that kind of talk any longer.
I agree, you need firm boundaries which he must respect.

Still think a therapist or anger therapy might be good though. Those angry feelings will still be inside him, just unspoken if he can let then out in a safe constructive environment maybe they can be laid to rest for good