Family Fallout - Advice Needed

Hi Everyone,

I'm in need of some impartial, unbias advice. As such I'm going to provide details here as fairly as possible.

My partner and I have recently had a baby, which is a few months old. There were complication at birth and later in the childs life and we've been lucky he has survived, he's going strong and everything is good.

My parents have been quite good up until now and everything was great. Recently though we had a get together, after which my parents were due to take our child home for the night to babysit. My mother was due to drive, as my stepdad had some drinks.

Upon leaving and placing our baby into the car we noticed that my step dad was taking the wheel, we noticed this as they were leaving our driveway - Now at this point he had around 4 beers (in cans), from what I've researched, this would make him almost one full unit over the legal limit, along with that he (IMO) was 'getting tipsy', not full on drunk, but certainly not completely sober.

I instantly rang my mother to query this decision, while they were driving and she claimed he only had 2 cans - I clarified that we had 4 of his empty cans in our possession and she became irritable with me, announcing that I was on hands free and the other passengers in the car (3 other children, excluding our baby, one of them being my smaller brother) and I was frightening them. The conversation ended as they were arriving home, after which I insisted she confirmed they had arrived safely.

My partner and I were furious, not only that this had happened but also at their attitude, having the audacity to be angry with me for questioning their decision in regard to my child.

My mother brought our son home the next day and my partner and I were quite dry and annoyed with her, she then left to a bad reception as we were still angry.

A week passed with no contact and eventually my mother arrived, announcing she had to say her bit. We allowed this and explained as best we could why we were angry, we explained that we understood they would never intentionally harm our baby, but that their decision to allow my stepdad to drive was indeed their fault and was not acceptable, and they would hence have to come to terms that we hold the power to decide what is and isnt acceptable for our son.

The conversation ended in a row, as my mother refused to accept any responsibility for her part in it, tried to paint herself as a by stander as she wasnt driving, her partner was, and ultimately asked if it was so bad why didnt we take our son from them by going to their house as soon as they arrived.

We found this attitude to be ridiculous and she was asked to leave.

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Essentially I just want to know I havent over reacted by having an issue with this? Im not very familiar with alcohol consumption and driving, but due to my research I've found that 4 cans of beer is 0.9 of a unit over the legal limit, and even so the legal limit is not a be all and end all, it is a suggestion that you're advised to avoid anyway.

Anyone got any advice? Thank you.

I would have had the same concern, as you, but I probably wouldn't put my child in the car with some that had drank 4 beers, of course you also have to consider over how many hours did he drink. If he had been there for the whole day 4 beers wouldn't be bad but he had drank in a short period of time I would have been concerned. Your mother should have drove and probably wishes she had but won't admit it.

As mentioned above, it depends a little on whether those 4-cans were in the course of one full day or right over dinner. Assuming the latter, seems to me you and your partner were pretty spot on in your reaction and dismay. I can't know for sure since I wasn't there, but their response to you was quite childish. Being dry and angry with them without actually sitting down and having a discussion about it is a little immature as well. It's good you finally were able to talk it out even if the end result wasn't great. If they can't see the problem with driving children while under the influence, that's on them. Not on you.

Hi everyone, I probably should have clarified.

The drinks were consumed over the period of around two hours - They came around for some food.

As far as allowing the child to get into the car - My mother had spoken all night about how she was driving, seeing as her partner was drinking. They got into the car without us watching, it wasnt until we ventured out to wave goodbye that we noticed, by which stage they had already reversed out of the driveway and begin turning, at this point I phoned immediately.

You are right and your mother (and step-dad) are wrong. Four beers in two hours is too much. Your mother knew it was too much - that's why she said that she would drive in front of you.

Take a look at how you are using the word "power." What you really mean to say, I believe, is that you have the authority to decide what is acceptable. I would totally agree with you on that . . . . and so do all the laws of the land.

As you have just found out, however, once you turn your child over to someone who physically removes the child from your presence, you have made yourself pretty much powerless over what happens to the child, while he is away from you. For that reason, putting your child into the physical care of another person, is something that you must use extreme caution about. You have authority to give your mother instructions about what is acceptable for your child. Once she is out of your presence, you are relying on trust that she will conform to your expectations. In this case, your mother did not stick with the understanding you thought you had with her. About the only power you have, at this stage, is the power to not let her go off with your son and, maybe, to not babysit, except under limited circumstances.

You are voicing a lot of anger. That anger is coming from you being frustrated that you cannot control what your mother does when she takes your son out of your presence. You might as well accept that you do not have control of that, and you never will. If you don't trust her judgement about your child's safety - and you have good reason not to - then it is your responsibility to not put your son in her care, or to do so only under limited circumstances . . . like those that do not involve transporting the child.

Your mother grew up in an era when people had much more relaxed ideas about how much beer, before taking the wheel of a car, is too much. In her judgement, what she did was fine, and I doubt you will be able to reprogram her thinking. She demonstrated that she is willing to ignore what you expect and substitute her own judgement, when she feels you are being overly cautious. It is very likely that she will do that again, perhaps in respect to some different issue. Eventually, you may decide that your mother is not a good choice for babysitting. I've known couples who have decided to not allow a particular grandmother (or other relative) to babysit. It's okay to make that decision. It's not okay to go around angry that you can't get someone to have the same judgement as you have. That's simply not going to happen, and you might as well accept the reality of that.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

You're right Rose, I am angry. I'm angry/frustrated that even when this was explained to her (as reasonably as was possible, we reassured her we knew none of this was done with bad intentions), her reaction was to shift blame and question why we didn't come and retrieve him from her house 'if it was so bad', which was just a ridiculous method of dodging her role in the situation.

I understand everything you're saying, our willingness to allow her to baby sit has been diminished, although there is no contact between us now at all, as my mother has chosen to focus the entire situation on the fact she was asked to leave our house for refusing to be reasonable, instead of focusing on what she's actually done to cause this.

I'm glad to see we weren't being over cautious though.

I disagree. Your mother was saying to you, "When you leave your son in my care, I shall use my judgement about what is safe. If you don't think my judgement is sound, then don't leave your child with me." That's actually a fair statement, in my view.

I totally support your decision to not let your child be transported in a car being driven by someone who has been drinking. Though, come to think of it, that was not actually what you decided. When you saw the car in your driveway, with your step-dad at the wheel, you could have said to your mom by phone, "Come back immediately!" They couldn't have gotten far down the road when you had your mom on the cell phone. But that's not what you did. You decided that the risk to your son was not great enough for you to cancel your plans. So you let the car proceed down the road.

Ask yourself what it is that you are really angry about. I think you are more angry that your mom was non-compliant then you are about your son being put in jeopardy. This sounds like it may be something of a power struggle between you and your mom. (There's that word again.) Ask yourself if this is really only about your son's safety. Your mother doesn't think it is, and I suspect she may be on to something.

Your son's safety didn't require that his grandmother be ejected from the house. What was that really about? Are you using the issue of your son's welfare as a proxy for something else. Just think about it.

As time goes on, you are going to need help now and then with your son. You have no idea what situations may arise that will cause you to leave your son in someone else's care. You may find that there are no perfect babysitters out there and that you could do a lot worse than your mom. Outside of you and your husband, probably no one will love this child more than your mom. In would be in both your son's and your interests for you to cultivate cooperation from your mom in a constructive way, rather than by getting implacably confrontational.

I don't know your mom, and, for all I know, she may be someone who is not a good choice for a babysitter. That may be a conclusion that you will come to, and I would support you in your right to make that decision. I don't see it, however, as a reason to cut off contact with her. I think you are angry about something else.

You're welcome to disagree Rose, but in order to believe what you're inferring I would be forced to put quite a few words in my mothers mouth that she didn't actually use. Your assumption of her meaning requires a bit of a bigger leap in judgement than what I took away from the interaction and I'm struggling to see how you came to that conclusion, but nonetheless.

We highlighted our opposition to it happening, that should have been final. There was no argument to take place here, no need for questioning my partner and I about what we did and didn't do - We highlighted the issue immediately via telephone, from that point our opposition and wishes were clear and the responsibility then rested on the adult whose care we placed our son in - my mother.

I appreciate your comments, although I think too much focus is being placed on an attempt to read subtext and the chosen use of words, which is only hindering the actual issue getting the daylight it deserves.

My mother came into our home after this incident with an agenda, aiming to shirk responsibility we had given her, and pose a series of questions that implied we should have done more. As soon as we realised we rang - Multiple times, it took time to get through and once we did get through the phone cut off and we were forced to try again, they had managed to get a reasonable distance along the road by this stage so rest assured it was in no way us choosing 'our plans' over our sons safety, I find that an assumption that is completely unnecessary to make given the information you had.

We attempted to reason with her, and highlight that, regardless to what she thinks, we disagree with it happening and that should really be the end of it. This was met with a series of 'why didn't you do x,y,z', which is completely unreasonable in the face of two people whos wishes you have not respected in regard to their child, when it was clear there was no reasoning with her, she was asked to leave.

While you assert that once we place our son in the care of someone else we must then give in to their judgement - This only applies partially. We respect that our chosen babysitter must use their judgement (based on our understanding of how good it is), however, if we ask them to do something with our child that they would not have otherwise judged necessary, then we expect our wishes to be respected, whether they agree or not - Like for example, if we wish for him to be put to bed at 7pm, but in their opinion 9pm would be suitable, our wishes should take precedent over their opinion - So I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one.

To round this up I have spoken to my mother since, highlighted my problems with everything that happened and it has been accepted. Had that been the case initially everything would be fine. At least its happened now.

It sounds like you have come to a good resolution of this, and that is an important outcome that may prevent future problems.

I did not communicate something very well. In no way do I believe that parents should give in to other peoples' judgement about what to do when they are caring for a child. I would have a hard time giving over the care of a child to someone who would disregard clear instructions. Like you, I would expect wishes to be respected. I'm glad that your mother has accepted your position on what happened. This is a safety issue. On safety there can be no compromise. Your judgement about what is too risky for your son should be final.