[menojy]

we've been together for 3 years, he's respectful, caring, loving, and I adore him .
one day we were talking on the phone after I had a big fight with my mother and here goes the conversation ....

He: If we were married and you had a fight with your family in front of me, and they asked about my opinion, would it bother you to tell you you're wrong in front of them ?
I :Yes, no problem to tell me I am wrong but just not in front of them and not while we're arguing .. and anyways, it would be better to just stay away from it, no need to take sides ..
He: but if they ask me my opinion? I would feel obliged, and I would say you're wrong because it's just a situation that will pass.
(that really annoyed me)
I : just say I don't know or I don't want to get engaged, that would relieve you from any pressure .
He : okaaay, now if that fight was between you and my family ? I would want to express my opinion.. hey I just want to know how that makes you feel , I am so conflicted, I believe you should be free to do what you want but I am sometimes so traditional when it comes to family.
I : you're not dear ! you're asking me to obey you even if I am right (I know that due to previous conversations), so if your mum and I got into a fight and you believe I was right, you won't be able to say that in front of her and you will make me appear as if I am wrong, is that correct ?
He : Yes
____________________________end of conversion____________________________

He's also so upset about his sister in law, because she doesn't visit his mother as much and she's supposed to "serve" her (his mother) but she doesn't ! And when we talk about our future he always says that we're not going to be like his brother and sister in law, which means I am supposed to be the servant his mother never had ... or that's how I feel .

I am so scared specially that we're thinking about getting married next year.
I would love to have a good relationship with his family, what I can't accept is to be a servant for them, or that they take me for granted.
I don't want him to take sides,I am not asking him to agree with me, I just want him not to humiliate me infront of his family saying I am wrong and should make sacrifices even when he thinks I am right. I want my space of freedom to keep silent or go away when I am mad after a fight with his mum. Am I being unreasonable ?
How can I talk with him about that without hurting him ?

(Still don't know what would get us (his mother and I) into a fight in the first place, it's just all hypothetically)

[ChipperMonkey]

I think its important for spouses to stay out of arguments happening between their significant other and another family member. That is, if a man's wife is fighting with her sister, he should stay out of it, even if asked his opinion! Why the need for triangulation? The two people fighting need to resolve things between them without dragging in another party. As soon as you introduce another party into the argument, you have instantly TRIPLED the amount of possible animosity! Long story short, fight your own battles and don't seek out backup in the heat of the moment. Its ok to go home and ask for support, but don't escalate things in front of the other family member. That's just asking for long term trouble!

[hvert]

It seems to me that if you are husband and wife, that makes the two of you a family. You two should be the 'first' family priority. The extended family (your parents, his parents) are second to the relationship between you and your spouse.

I agree with what you said, that it is important to support your spouse in front of your extended family. It's a little strange for him to bring this subject up anyway, especially if you are not fighting with his family. Do you know why he is doing that?

[SnakeCharmer]

This thing about serving his mother and obeying him ... how literal is that? Does he, perhaps, have some conservative religious or ethnic traditions that are different from your own beliefs about the roles of husbands and wives within a marriage?

It sounds as though you're arguing about hypothetical situations that could happen but are not actually happening right now. If they do happen a year or five years down the road, who knows how either of you will react? Perhaps at the moment, you're talking around the real issues.

You asked if you were over-reacting. I don't know. It seems like wasted energy (to me) to get upset about hypothetical situations that may or may not happen some time in the future because we really can't predict what we might do if our emotions are riled up, say, three years from now.

If the two of you do, indeed, come from different religious or political backgrounds, then I applaud you for trying to figure these things out before marriage. It's important to find out if there are some deal breakers for either you or him?

If my H expected or demanded that I obey him and serve him and his family because that's the wife's role, it would be a deal breaker for me. I couldn't take it. I wouldn't comply. Resentments would build on both sides because his expectations and my actions would not be in accord.

If he asked that we show each other respect, especially in front of other people, I would agree wholeheartedly. If he asked that I be willing to give, as well as receive, love, care, and support, I'd like that, too. We'd be agreeing to both give and receive the same things. We'd be equals.

I think that may be what your feeling upset about. Not the hypotheticals themselves, but the idea that your caring, loving, respectful, adorable boyfriend expects you to become his subservient wife and you're not liking that idea very much. Is that possible?

Keep talking. Try to not get upset about any particular hypothetical situation and talk more directly about the expectations you both have about the roles of husband and wife. If you feel really strongly about this, it's not to early to tell him that you're willing to vow to "love, honor and cherish" him, but not, "love, honor and obey." I think that's the real issue.

Best of luck to you both.

P.S. I just noticed you're from Egypt. Sorry that I didn't notice that before. The different beliefs between a traditional man and a more modern woman can create big conflict. Keep talking and perhaps you can come to compromise.

[menojy]

Originally Posted by SnakeCharmer

This thing about serving his mother and obeying him ... how literal is that?

If the two of you do, indeed, come from different religious or political backgrounds, then I applaud you for trying to figure these things out before marriage. It's important to find out if there are some deal breakers for either you or him?

P.S. I just noticed you're from Egypt. Sorry that I didn't notice that before. The different beliefs between a traditional man and a more modern woman can create big conflict. Keep talking and perhaps you can come to compromise.

What he said about his sister in law was literally the word "serve" (my sister in law is supposed to serve my mother)

We are both from Egypt, we are open minded though, we share the same religious, cultural beliefs, we both refuse what the society is pushing us to do, we share the same values that is different from the society we live in so no problems there .

The problem is that he doesn't like to appear as a bad person/a bad son expressing his rejection to society and that makes him adopt a traditional behavior in front of others (because here in Egypt being that different could result in losing everyone around) but I am not .
He's asking me to allow him to practice that traditional behavior with me only in front of people but I can't stand it ! I was never used to suppress my beliefs, I am not so much afraid of people hating me for my beliefs as he is .

And according to that (tradition) the wife should be more obedient to her husband and that would extend to his family as well.

He's kinda torn between the two ideas, he's liberal, but he's afraid to show it, but being a conservative/traditional may hurt some people around him as well, so he doesn't know what to do. But I think he's more afraid of that kind of hatred than hurting some people around (me being one of them)

[menojy]

Originally Posted by hvert

It seems to me that if you are husband and wife, that makes the two of you a family. You two should be the 'first' family priority. The extended family (your parents, his parents) are second to the relationship between you and your spouse.

I agree with what you said, that it is important to support your spouse in front of your extended family. It's a little strange for him to bring this subject up anyway, especially if you are not fighting with his family. Do you know why he is doing that?

Both of us actually do that all the time
we have concerns all the time about the future, we imagine ourselves inside some situations to be prepared for consequences or at least not to be shocked if they happen. He's just afraid it might happen.

[blur]

i think i would probably look more at how he has acted in the 3 years that you have dated, with respect to the family interactions you have experienced, rather than hypothetical situations. i would certainly consider what he is saying in those hypothetical situations though. you don't sound unreasonable to me at all but then i am a westerner.

it might be good to talk to him about what he means about serving his mother so you are clear as to what that really entails. i think if you marry him just don't expect this to change. just go in knowing it is how he is. if he ended up changing then great but don't tell yourself that he will probably change to convince yourself to marry him.

from a western perspective his hypothetical behavior would be frowned upon, but i realize it is different in your culture as i know someone who dated an egyptian guy. is premarital counseling something that is available in egypt, either from a counselor or faith group? if it is, that might be good to look into. there might even be workbooks you could buy on premarital counseling.

[brainhi]

This is so personal to your principles. Your man does not want to rock the boat. That is what he has learned to do and it works for him.

I can understand that it would hurt you that he does not stand up for you. I guess you could come up with some type of agreement - and he needs to understands how much this hurts you. He may never treat his family different. You can not change him any more than you can hold back on something you feel passionate about and you want to be validated.

It's not always important to be right - unless it compromises your principles too much because resentment will follow and the resentment will hurt the relationship.

[hvert]

That really is a huge difference of opinion, if he wants you to take on the traditional roles in front of people and you don't want to. I guess it is good you are discussing these hypotheticals because it is giving each of you a clear idea of what sort of life the other wishes to lead.

[menojy]

we just had the talk and he relieved me a lot, he said that those hypothetical situations just pop in his mind sometimes and it's unlikely to happen for real, and even if it happened he would never force me to do something I don't want to do (which proven right through our three years together), and even though he would like to see us (his family and I) get closer,he would like it if I treat his mother the same way I treat my mother but it's totally my choice to be as much involved with his family as I want, no pressure, no worries.

He also said that we are much more important than all those things, if one of us can't handle pressure at some point then it's not worth jeopardizing our relationship, and if some of our concerns would cause us trouble, it's better that we deal with it in a way that keeps us together not tear us apart.

I think I am lucky ..

Thanks a lot for helping everyone