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#21
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I'm all for marriage if individuals choose it and want it for themselves. What I disagree with are the myths in society as to why it developed and why it continues to be pushed on young folks ($53 billion industry in the U.S.). With regard to raising children, marriage remains the "norm" or desirable in many societies but rates of parental child abuse and neglect are still very high. Are you saying that institutionalized marriage contributed to the development of childhood vaccines @openeyes? |
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DazedandConfused254, Open Eyes
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#22
@Bill3 do you have any interest in weighing in on human need for close relationships, a preferred number, or how that fosters identity development?
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Bill3
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#23
Hi SilverTrees!
I am very much grateful that you asked this question, as it reminds me that I am not alone in my bewilderment over how much one needs to socialize to be happy. There is a concept that has been illustrated by Malcolm Gladwell in his signature work "The Tipping Point", that describes the maximum number of relationships that one person can handle before becoming emotionally and relationally stretched. This limit was originally devised by the British psychologist, Robin Dunbar in 1992, in conclusion to a study conducted through varying the size of non-human primate communities. It was determined that the maximum number of relationships that one can handle at a single point in time is 150. There is some variation between 100 and 250, but 150 is the most commonly accepted "middle ground", as well as the number orignally discovered by Dunbar. In our culture, known for desiring busyness and constant connection, someone may wonder "what is the scale of each relationship in this 150-person community?" In Medium's link for this article (see at the end of this post), the author does a fine job providing an overview of the study, breaking down the number into 4 components: 5 intimate friendships (possibly the most important closer friendships?), 15 good friends, 50 total friends (5 intimate, 15 good friends, therefore leaving 30 casual friends), and 150 acquaintances. Both Dunbar and Medium have used examples of this concept at work, the earliest of which was found in Neolithic time period, where 150 was the average size of a farming community before a split to smaller communities was warranted. The 120-150 people found in most army troop was a social standard set by soldiers in the days of the Roman Empire. In "Tipping Point", a modern example takes the concept even further to explain the recent success of Gore-Tex, a manufacturer of fabrics that repel moisture, making clothes and camping items more waterproof and hiking boots slip-resistant. What explains the success of the company's product? Keeping the community small. The parent manufacturer of the product, WL Gore and Associates is very selective on who enters the Gore-Tex division to prevent over-population of workers, thus creating a personable work environment. The average size of the Gore-Tex division is close to Dunbar's Number, which is a small enough number that nametags are not even necessary! This may be a very analytical approach to social relationships, but I feel very passionate about Dunbar and his findings. In a world that often seems to pressure people to socialize or form large networks, this has been a very encouraging finding, and hope that you feel the same way too. Dunbar’s number — the law of 150 – Esther Sugihto – Medium __________________ DX'd Moderate GAD and depression in April 2021. But it is only a part of me, not defining me. "If you can dream it you can do it!" ~ Walt Disney |
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Anonymous44076
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#24
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Marriage and family was important for different reasons in human history, many early settlements needed families to work together on farms. Many farms stayed in famiies for generations too. Many businesses were family owned and run too. |
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Anonymous44076
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#25
Look at my late father. He had one person he was close to—my mother. But he was enmeshed in society. Congenial with co-workers, coached and played baseball, fixed stuff for people in the neighborhood, friendly with staff at McDonalds etc., so he had a lot of lesser connections and he was at peace.
But when my mother died he lost his purpose for living. He was fine with one close friend, given his other connections, but not fine with zero and no purpose. I like this (approximate) quote from Nietzsche: “If a person has a Why, they can cope with almost any How.” |
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Anonymous44076, Anonymous49426, Innerzone
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#26
I want to reply to all of you properly later. I want to say that you have given me much to think about...I mean that as a compliment!
Bill, that Nietzsche quote just blew me away. As well as your story about your father. Wow. I am so grateful for you PC folks and your insight. Truly. |
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Bill3
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Bill3, Open Eyes
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#27
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Buffy nearly dies in a fight with a vampire and begins to have thoughts about her own mortality, so she asks Spike about his fights with other slayers because he's killed two of them. Spike tells her that it wasn't a lack of skill or a failure in technique which led to their deaths. He didn't exploit a weakness in their attack, but rather, they had lost the will to live. Buffy hadn't (yet) because she had ties to the world - her mom, sister, and friends. Death chases us all, and eventually, all of us will forget the reason we keep running. Eventually, we all stop. Maybe it isn't always relationships which give us purpose, but I think it often is. You've opened Pandora's Box, Silver. |
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Bill3
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#28
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Sometimes one comes to a fork in the road in their life and can't figure out which direction to take. Often they can set for a bit and ask questions and then get enough of an answer that helps them choose a direction with some more confidence. I have a feeling this is what has helped Silver already when she needs to make a life path decision. |
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#29
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Maybe I just haven't figured out how to balance between constant connection and alone time, but after being stretched and living life with very few personal boundaries, I've been practicing how to achieve that balance and that's where I found Dunbar's concept promising! __________________ DX'd Moderate GAD and depression in April 2021. But it is only a part of me, not defining me. "If you can dream it you can do it!" ~ Walt Disney |
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#30
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What makes you think that those with a lot of likes and social media friends get more respect? Perhaps it's that they're liked and have many friends because they're respected. They've done something to earn that respect, or they're just generally charismatic. |
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#31
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#32
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I have been recovering from toxic social experiences so I hope it doesn't sound like I'm complaining too much! __________________ DX'd Moderate GAD and depression in April 2021. But it is only a part of me, not defining me. "If you can dream it you can do it!" ~ Walt Disney |
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Open Eyes
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#33
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But yeah, I get what you're saying with "blurred lines" when it comes to personal boundaries. |
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DazedandConfused254
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#34
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Actually yes to both. After I decided to leave the groups who sent me spiraling in the first place some of the people in those groups tried to lure me right back in, refusing to understand that I was juggling both misunderstandings with friends and hectic transitions simultaneously. Others in my so-called "support group" have forced me to come out of my shell even though I am someone more likely to enhance current friendships rather than branch out. A large part of why I left the groups I previously enjoyed as a young dumb college student is they were too sensitive and personal with seemingly everyday occurences. So yes people expected me to open up and share everything about me, but at the same time I risked criticism for what I shared. Not helpful when I've been going through this rough patch in my life. And most people at where I attended school were flashy with their social life and flaunted it on SM. Kind of like "everybody else is doing it, why not you", that sort of mentality. __________________ DX'd Moderate GAD and depression in April 2021. But it is only a part of me, not defining me. "If you can dream it you can do it!" ~ Walt Disney |
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