Are small betrayals a big deal? please be brutally honest with me

Dated my ex about 5 years ago. We had a very loving, passionate relationship (seemingly soulmates). About a year in, while on his fb page, I noticed he had sent a girl a friend request. I asked him who she was, he told me it was a girl one of his male friends was pursuing and he wanted to snoop on his behalf. Weeks later he told me he lied. He met the girl while out and long story short, had briefly ended up in a sexting situation with her that lasted about 3 days. In the end, he told her he had a gf and never to contact him again. Months after that we broke up.

I recently reconnected with this ex. It's been 4 months. (I made a previous post on this forum saying I would not start a relationship with him.. but here I am.) We are not officially in a relationship, but we ultimately decided we could date and see if getting back together would work.

This week however, I discovered that he lied to me. This ex of mine is particularly friendly, with both other guys and women. He met a girl on a freelance job about 3 weeks ago. The girl has been in contact with him, venting about her current abusive relationship with her partner. My ex says he was just being a listening ear for her. A couple days ago though, I discovered that they had been speaking quite a lot without him telling me, even going out together with his group of friends.

The lie:
In his conversation with her (yes, I read them on his phone.. in his presence though), I noticed they were discussing an event that happened near where we live (my ex and I live close to one another). The thing is, about 3 weeks ago, I was discussing this event with my ex right after it happened and he shared some information about it with me. He told me that the guy who lived next door to him was the one who gave him this information. Earlier this week, I asked my ex whether what he said 3 weeks ago was true, he told me no, it was the girl who told him about the event. He says, he did not want to bring the girl and their frequent interactions up too much as well as told a 'white lie' because he thought it could unnecessarily worry me. He said he wanted me to get back to a place of peace knowing our past.

I found this to be a bit ridiculous as my thought was if that's what he wanted, then his approach was so wrong. Either don't talk to various women or be transparent with me about it. He seems to want to continue trying and put effort into changing his behaviour, however, I am baffled by the deceit.

Someone who knows us both is advising me to tell him exactly what I want him to do regarding his interactions with other women and not give up on him. Whereas for me, I feel what seems like small grievances and little white lies is enough reason for me to not move forward with a relationship. I actually want to be done with him all together, and let this go for good. Am I wrong for feeling like this? How normal/acceptable are white lies to save people's feelings? Do you tell white lies?

You're not wrong AT ALL for feeling like this, @astoldbyginger - you're NEVER EVER "wrong" about feeling a certain way. That's just the way you feel after all! If you feel like this relationship isn't ging to work out, just end it there. You have every right to do so. After all, it already ended. I don't think white lies are that big of a deal in itself, but he's lying about seeing other girls and I don't think that's ACCEPTABLE, even though he may have good intentions. It's not good when mistrust is happening from the beginning already. Give it a thought, but I'd go with your instincts on this. There's PLENTY of other guys who can and who will hopefully be MORE HONEST with you! That is just my opinion of course. Do what you feel like doing. Talking about ALL of this with him isn't a bad idea either, but you decide BY YOURSELF. Let us know how it goes and what you decide to do! Sending Many Safe, Warm Hugs To BOTH You, @astoldbyginger, Your Family, Your Friends, Your Ex-Boyfriend And ALL Of Your Loved Ones! Keep fighting and keep rocking no matter what happens, ok?!

I think all these “little white lies” are adding up to the fact that he’s just not honest with you. That’s my opinion. Relationships shouldn’t be this much work. Yes, it takes effort to communicate and work out differences of opinion and disagreements. But honesty should never be an obstacle in an authentic and fulfilling relationship. You clearly don’t trust him and gut feelings are right in my opinion. Your friend who is a mutual friend has a vested interest in both friendships. I don’t think this person can give you unbiased advice based simply on the facts. I think you can find someone who makes you happy. There’s a reason you two broke up the first time and you’re already unhappy again. Good luck to you.

Real good relationships between 2 people are NOT filled with this kind of lies & crap if they are ever to become a quality commitment. Settling for anything less just means you will be settling for this kind of treatment as long as you CHOOSE to be with them & tolerate being treated that way. Definitely not a choice I would ever make. If they haven't changed in the time you have been away from him it is highly unlikely change will ever happen.

Bottom line, YOU are the one that has to determine what YOU WANT in a relationship

I think that the explanation of the "white lie" might itself be a lie.

I am skeptical he said that so as to spare your feelings.

I support your impulse to move on.

This sums up my thoughts as well. I agree with everyone who has responded.

Trust your gut Astoldbyginger!

Personally you have invested a lot into this relationship over the years. He’s just not trustworthy.

Yes close the door on him and move on with your life, you deserve a greatly relationship and he is not it. .

He lies. And all his lies are about interactions with other women, it’s quite telling.. He isn’t a good relationship material. Wasn’t 5 years ago and isn’t now.

Also what you describe is not “white lie”, what this guy does is “a lie”. Why bother. He was ex for a reason, in my opinion he should stay in “ex” category

I read every reply and thank you everyone for your input and honesty. I have told him given what has transpired, I will not be able to move forward with a relationship and don't want to continue dating. There was an emotional response on his part. He does not want things to end under these circumstances. I will stand by my decision this time around though.

I have thought about this quite a bit. When I listen to him speak about things, he seems very convinced of what he is saying. However, spare my feelings from what? If that reasoning were true, he obviously has an inkling that what he is doing is somehow inappropriate, yet he is doing it anyway. He has been transparent about interactions with another female companion of his, so why did he need to lie about this one? I just cannot understand the logic behind what he chose to do, but I need to not make this my business.

Thanks Bill3.

When someone lies to you, you cannot help but think back to the conversation during which they told the lie. When he told me about his neighbour talking to him about this event, I cracked a few jokes about it and he laughed along. Thinking back to that is very disturbing. I have been wondering what other things he may have lied about. But whatever..

Thanks divine1966.

There aren't white lies; there are lies.

I think part of the disconnect is also that you both wanted different things. You want an exclusive relationship and he doesn’t. Hopefully, you’ll meet another man soon, and he will also want the same as you.

When you saw he was flirting with other women, both times you dated, you knew he wasn’t interested in being exclusive. It’s about boundaries. Rather than standing by, you put on the brakes when you see he’s not giving you what you want.

I think that would be understandable if it were blatantly true. What I mean by that is, this ex of mine may just be more in love with me than I am with him to the point of wanting to get married, or so he says. He says he wants to be in a relationship with me right now. I am the one who has requested we take things slowly as he needs to earn me back basically. The thing is, his actions do not reflect his words. So whether he might be very convincingly expressing a desire for exclusivity but does not actually want that, I cannot say for sure. What I think it is is that he wants to be in a relationship with me because he has not been able to find someone else who he connects with on such a deep level, but he actually is not ready to settle down, and does not realize it. His actions show that he still enjoys attention from various people, esp women and as someone else said here, that does not make him good, long-term relationship material. Or maybe it will work for some other woman, just not me.

I care deeply about him. Despite that I know I need to make the decision that's best for me and will bring me the most peace. I wanted to specifically ask about the lies because I notice when I discussed this with my very close friend, who is married, I was basically being advised to work through it. "White lies" in relationships is also something I have heard others talk about and I wanted to see how normal it was, and if people normally let these things go. But I notice now, based on everyone's honesty, which I am extremely grateful for, that what he was doing is beyond just white lies.

If he was as serious and as much in love as you say and committed about you, he’d not be secretly interacting with women and lie about it (which indicates ulterior motives on his part). He’d not act like a player. He’d act like a man who is seriously into you

When a man is as into a woman and is as serious like wanting to marry no way no how he’d do things this guy does.

He said things he thought you wanted to hear. That’s what guys like him do. They think if they tell you all this lovey stuff, you’ll fall for it. It doesn’t work this way. When you meet a man who really is serious about you, none of this stuff you described would be happening. He isn’t interested in exclusivity or commitment. Or things would be entirely different.

Yes there could be white lies in a relationship, like when I sometimes complain that I gained weight my husband telling me I look just as gorgeous as the day we’ve met. Well he might think so but logically speaking I can’t be possibly looking exactly like I was as I am aging. But if he secretly talked to women and lied to me, it wouldn’t be while lie. It’s just a lie.

I honestly recommend therapy to get to the bottom of your attraction to players and even wanting to go back to a player who is already known to be dishonest. Good therapy could help to sort sources of that attraction. So you don’t fall for it again. Good luck

Let me get this straight.

He wants to get married to you and yet three weeks ago he met a new girl that he lies to you about, has been close enough to be told intimate details about her current relationship, has talked extensively with, and has seen socially with other friends.

Plus whatever else he hasn’t told you, so as “to spare your feelings”.

I continue to support your decision to end things with him!

I had ex’s who also said those encouraging affirmations, led me to think they just weren’t ready (we were young), but they were not really in love nor serious about me. Maybe they really believed their own BS, I sure did.

Believe what people do and not what they say. Yes, small betrayals are a big deal IMHO.

Oh I missed where he actually is going out with this new girl, not just talking to her. So he is not exclusive, he is pretty much dating her and lying to you about it.

It’s concerning that you actually see it as signs of him wanting to marry you and being madly in love with you. I see signs of him playing the field, keep meeting different women and not being serious.

I am concerned that you perceive it completely differently than pretty much anyone would. Hence I believe in therapy being helpful here

Exactly, not in love and not serious or they’d just not act like it.

Players do it all the time. I have a friend who briefly dated a guy who turned out to be married with a pregnant wife. He managed to lie because he was working out of town.

I once was asked out by a guy whom I knew socially, thankfully I didn’t proceed with dating as i just didn’t like him in that capacity. But he was quite insistent that he likes so much and I just need to give him a chance, I was sure he was single and maybe lonely. I later found out that he had long term girlfriend the entire time when he was blowing my phone up. I still don’t know why he asked me out. So stupid.

Some guys like to play and in order to play they have to be good with telling women stories and be good about lying. Or at least for short period of time. And age isn’t an issue either. I’ve met players who were in their 50s. Players play at any age

Now if someone dated multiple women it’s fine as long as he is upfront about it. Not lying. It’s not wrong to not be exclusive as long as everyone is on the same page.

Oh also guys who aren’t serious usually are the ones who rush with relationships/sex etc Guys who are serious do wait for things to develop naturally

Rushing into things is not a sign of anything with substance

This hit me hard. Hahaha. OMG. But I guess this is what I need to hear . I went to therapy for the first time last month and will bring this up in my next session. Thank you.

It comes down to things that he has said, not things I perceived as signs. He says he loves me, he brings up marriage on his own. But I have not taken it seriously because I knew I had to assess things before even getting into a relationship with him. When it comes to him and his friends going places with the girl, I did not find this out until about 4 days ago. Since then I have decided this won't work for me.

There are other aspects to our relationship, his friends, this girl, and the situation in general that I have not mentioned here because I would then have pages of posts. Things are not always black and white which is why people tend to stay in things that are not healthy. But I have taken the main, troubling facts out to assess them and get honest feedback. I definitely do not want to be one of those people hanging onto a toxic relationship or consistently getting into them. I agree with bringing it up in therapy