[sarahsweets]

Hi there: I have always known my extended family had racists undertones. (not my mother or siblings, father is dead). My uncle, his wife and kids have always "walked the racist line". Actually they really havent but I grew up around them so I guess I didnt see it the way I do now.
I blame politics 100%. My brother is gay and his partner is black. Last year my Aunt said stuff like : "Let me take a picture with B I have always wanted a black and white pic". Or she would call him a chocolate eclair and then say : " You know Im kidding right? " Well what do you think a new black member of the all white family would say? My brother is makes no bones about how he feels and let her know. Now, we have a pandemic and the rhetoric is worse. They act like its ok to hate "those people" but not 'B". Or my brother who is gay. Its the other "gays" that are the problem but oh, no, not him. My mother wasnt raised this way so I have no idea where my uncle gets this from.

He has never been particularly nice to me anyway. I defriended him because he kept sending me trump stuff when I specifically told him not to. In fact my last message was " DO NOT EVER send me another trump thing again" and he did. That side of the family rails against "libtards and snowflakes" it goes on and on. My immediate family will not be doing holidays with them but with Fauci's guidelines it gives us an out. My brother and I told my mom that they need to know the real reason and I know she is dreading the convo. I do not understand why people with racist ideas are everywhere now. Well I do really its just disheartening when its your family. Has anyone else had to contend with this and how? Did you have conversations or confrontations >?
To those that respond: Please use the mention function (@sarahsweets) so I dont lose track of the thread and not participate. Thanks.

[divine1966]

It’s tough @sarahsweets My dad periodically makes nasty comments about people. Yes there’ve been confrontations over the years. Now when he is old, it’s pointless. I don’t participate in discussions anymore, I change topics, play “grey rock” and move on. In ideal world people would change their ways. In this world, I am not sure. I think we still should educate people and I try to do so when I can but not when they get too old

[sarahsweets]

Very true @divine1966. The thing that gets me is my mother and uncle were raised by the same parents and she isn’t like that. And it’s gone way beyond “occasional “. It’s blatant. I honestly do not want to spend any holidays with them. I am wistful for what it might have been but the reality is they are hateful people and I adore my brother no matter who he loves.

[divine1966]

It’s amazing how things work out. My BFF’s mother is the sweetest lady, yet her uncles raised in the same family are horrible human beings. Delinquent white supremacy racists. Go figure. @sarahsweets. I don’t blame you for not wanting to be around these people

[Open Eyes]

It's unfortunate @sarahsweets but most of the time the root of racism is about "fear". That's what prejudice is about too mostly "fear of". When it comes to "fear of's" it's important to learn how to listen as often a person will show you by what they say to you what their true fear is about. It sounds like these relatives harbor some deep fears they don't know what to do with.

It's what my mother taught me when I was little. My mother would be ironing and she would watch old movies. I would sit and watch them with her. One day I was watching a movie with Shirley Temple where she was dancing with a man that happened to be black. That's when my mother began to tell me how mean Black people were treated, how they were not allowed to mingle with White people or use the same bathrooms or water fountains and many other things. When my mother told me this it was clear to me she was unhappy about that and thought it was mean. And years later she told me how she was told she could not play with other children on the beach because she was not rich enough to do so. So my mother knew what it felt like to face discrimination, it was a genuine feeling that she empathized with the most. The things my mother told me to "notice" that were wrong left a lasting impression.

Just because someone is related to you doesn't mean you have to agree to engage them when they say things that you find pushing their fears or ways of handling these fears on you. It can be unfortunate, but often politic's can divide family and friends and people in general. And this isn't anything "new" either, it's pretty much always been there.

One thing I do know is bad people come in all colors, as good caring people also come in all colors too. The pigment of someone's skin doesn't say anything other than mostly their origin and how their body adapted to the amount of sun they happened to be exposed to. It's just very stupid once one considers the biological science of it.

[Bill3]

@sarahsweets must you see this uncle? What if you don't?

[Open Eyes]

Agree with Bill as if you told this relative not to push his opinions on you and he continues to do so then it’s best to limit your contact as much as possible. And that should be true no matter what a person affiliates with politically. We all have a right to have our own opinion.

[sarahsweets]

Well @Bill3 I dont suppose I have to see anyone I dont want to. Honestly I dont think we will. My mother will have to have a hard conversation with her brother about all of this. Its not that I wouldnt have the conversation myself but I also wouldnt let me mother have a holiday alone with them.

[Marie123]

I think it is important to speak up when you hear those remarks. Keep it simple,such as I don't want to hear that. They aren't going to change their thoughts. There is a quote by Elie Wiesel: "When good men do nothing, evil continues." I guess staying away from them as much as possible is important, also. Don't engage in a conversation, or argument, just simply state you won't stay around to hear that. They know how you feel, and I think enjoy making those racist remarks....people like that love to get someone going and arguing. Racism has always existed, and sadly always will; all we can do is when we hear it; say something.

[divine1966]

People often say ridiculous racist and homophobic things because of ignorance. How they turn out to be so ignorant in 2020 is amazing. Ignorance certainly isn’t a bliss and isn’t an excuse because nowadays there are many ways for people like your uncles to educate themselves.

If they choose to remain ignorant, they’ll pay the price because decent family members won’t associate with them. They’ll be stewing in their hatred on their own @sarahsweets

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by Marie123

I think it is important to speak up when you hear those remarks. Keep it simple,such as I don't want to hear that. They aren't going to change their thoughts. There is a quote by Elie Wiesel: "When good men do nothing, evil continues." I guess staying away from them as much as possible is important, also. Don't engage in a conversation, or argument, just simply state you won't stay around to hear that. They know how you feel, and I think enjoy making those racist remarks....people like that love to get someone going and arguing. Racism has always existed, and sadly always will; all we can do is when we hear it; say something.

That’s the good point about them enjoying arguing about the matter because it gives them platform for spewing offensive comments further. Stating that you aren’t going to participate in hate talk and going away might be a better option with people like this

[Bill3]

@sarahsweets

I also wouldnt let me mother have a holiday alone with them.

Why not?

[poshgirl]

Harbouring such ignorance in modern society is unbelievable. Yet there are still people around who foster racism as if it's a badge of honour.

It's also done because the leader of their political persuasion believes it's right to condone that behaviour. We are all entitled to our own beliefs and to manage them accordingly. Your relatives' behaviour is bigotry and I agree, the best course for you is to distance yourself from such unacceptable behaviour.

[Open Eyes]

@sarahsweets, when you get upset like this it's a good time to sit and read the serenity prayer.

[sarahsweets]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

@sarahsweets, when you get upset like this it's a good time to sit and read the serenity prayer.

Do you mean upset with my family or something else. I do not see how the serenity prayer will somehow work to make me feel less angry toward them for blatant racism.

[sarahsweets]

Originally Posted by Bill3

@sarahsweets


Why not?

Well if she chose to go which she has said she won’t but if she did I would go with her so she wouldn’t be odd man out.

Unfortunately, once a person is racist they tend to stay that way no matter what interventions take place to school the racist on why their language and beliefs are so misguided. I couldn't convince my grandparents that black people were just like white people. My grandmother returned my Christmas gifts that I gave to her for Christmas, after I introduced my black boyfriend to my parents and grandparents on Christmas Eve. Eventually, she came around after my dad confronted her for her behavior, but she was still a racist. Once a racist, always a racist.

[Open Eyes]

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

Do you mean upset with my family or something else. I do not see how the serenity prayer will somehow work to make me feel less angry toward them for blatant racism.

Ok, I did not say you can't be angry @sarahsweets. Actually, I posted here in your thread and happened to be very sick that day and after I posted I was going to delete some things because I was worried about touching on the political too much and it wasn't my intention. I was too sick to get back and edit.

You asked me questions based on what I posted and was unable to edit and I did spend a lot of time actually answering your questions and I quoted you, but my post was edited while I did that so all that time I invested in answering you would not post. YET, it was not really a waste after all in that it made me realize some things, and how certain things can trigger me that I had not realized before.

You asked me how I know certain things were said, what's my source. Well, given you are younger than me I have lived through things where I did actually hear people say things. Maybe you can watch footage and read about Martain Luther King who was most likely assassinated before you were born. For me, I was a child of 12 years old when he was assassinated and I was able to live and actually see the affect he had and listen to my parents talk about him. My parents showed respect for him, and my parents did not care for "discrimination" (which includes racism and prejudice).

I actually had a friend in high school that was black and she was funny and nice and I had her to my house and she had me others to her house for sleep overs. Her parents lived in a nice more affluent town and her father was a doctor. I went to a private school and from what I recall, she was the only Black student. She was in a lot of my classes and her presence was friendly and comical and the classroom seemed empty without her and her constant comedic existence that got us laughing, her name was Linda. And I can't remember her last name, and just this morning I realized that I could look her up in my year book.

I graduated in the seventies, and I tried different things, different jobs and one of the things I tried was working in sales. At that time more things were being made in Japan and the company I worked for sold their copy machines. This was a period where Xerox was going to face competition. Xerox was an American company and many big companies had Xerox copiers. And Xerox had cornered all the ink and paper supplies for their machines too. I went through sales training and I was given a terriotory to sell in. And I had to work out of a home office near that territory. I had to go out and talk to companies of all kinds and convince them to purchase the ink and paper that was way cheaper for them to use than buying from Xerox. I got paid a weekly salary and $15 for every new account I signed. Well, back then it was a good setup and it gave me incentive to do as many calls as I could each day which I did.

Truth is, I was the way into the door too. And the real goal was to eventually convince these companies to buy the copiers made by companies in Japan. These copiers were faster and better than Xerox. Back in the seventies there was a lot of copying and paper use. So, when I walked in and talked about the cost reduction advantage of purchasing paper and ink and toner from my company that works just as good, it did make bigger companies listen. I actually liked it because I got to meet a lot of different people. And at that time, I was ok with the product too in that it worked fine and was very cost affective so I was not pushed to lie.

In that home office I worked out of, there were salesmen that sold the line of copiers. Some made for big companies, some for smaller companies too. When I broke the ice and learned a company may be interested in getting a new copier because theirs were breaking down too much and were not efficent, I would give a salesman the lead.

There was a Black man in this group of salesmen and he was a very nice man who was married and trying very hard to provide for his family. He was nice like my friend Linda and I did respect how he wanted to work hard and be a good husband. So, when I got a lead I was very happy to hand it to him.

He made an appointment and went and to my horror the man at that company literally threw a fit and actually said "how dare you send a black man" to me!!". I felt horrible and was so embarrassed for this man that I was so excited to give my lead to. At that time there was also that voice that was saying "I do not want my children growing up in a "Racial Jungle". I will never forget how that sentiment was very real, BECAUSE I lived it. I was so young at that time and it was not like I could really say anything either. I was not prepared to experience that either.

As I mentioned to you in one of my posts, when my mother finally shared with me what she was told when she was young, "you have to stay here, you can't mingle with THEM" which happened to be the wealthy crowd that had summer homes on the island she lived on. That had a very deep meaning to me at the time, and I realized why it was so important to her to talk to me about discrimination. She understood how that felt, she empathized and looking back from where I am now when she talked about that all those years ago when I sat and watched Shirley Temple, she wanted me to know truths about what I was watching. Oh I remember all too well, "you live here, you go to school here too, NOT WITH ME or MINE".

Just wanted you to know "my source" and how I seem to know certain things. There are things I don't need to read about because I lived it and heard it first hand.

The serenity prayer helps me at times because I had to remind myself "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference". Sometime sarahsweets, it's very hard.

[Open Eyes]

Originally Posted by Motts

Unfortunately, once a person is racist they tend to stay that way no matter what interventions take place to school the racist on why their language and beliefs are so misguided. I couldn't convince my grandparents that black people were just like white people. My grandmother returned my Christmas gifts that I gave to her for Christmas, after I introduced my black boyfriend to my parents and grandparents on Christmas Eve. Eventually, she came around after my dad confronted her for her behavior, but she was still a racist. Once a racist, always a racist.

That's what I faced, but not by my parents. My father was a financial advisor and at that time he called on all kinds of different business owners. I ended up meeting people that were all different and they were all respected and treated the same. I was not prepared for what I ended up experiencing. My parents were friends with individuals that were of different religions, followed different political views, and I got comfortable meeting all different kinds of people that were nice. They had no problem with me being friends with Linda, and they were good friends with a Jewish family and they were THE nicest people. While my mother did tell me things, somehow I was simply not prepared for how people really were, perhaps I just thought people were more like my parents, well, I learned they were NOT.

Eventually, she came around after my dad confronted her for her behavior, but she was still a racist. Once a racist, always a racist

Sigh, you are younger than me so you did not experience things I experienced. Yet, there is some "truth" to what you say here. And sometimes "yes" a person is confronted for things they say, but every now and then they slip and revert even with a "I own you" sentiment. It's hard seeing things others don't and knowing things by living it and remembering when others might not realize it.

Last but not least, my parents were in fact Republicans and they were the least racist prejudice people I knew. There are many times however, I see or hear people say "those Republicans are so racist". That infamous sentiment of ALL X'S ARE". And I know first hand that is simply not true. In fact, this entire "all X's are" sentiment is what's wrong. I find it triggering that I somehow can't say I don't like a certain person because and am suddenly an offense either or am trying to push something "other" on someone.

[lizardlady]

Open Eyes, I disagree that the root of racism is fear. At least it isn't always. My best friend's family are hard core racists. They are not afraid of minorities. They just plain hate anyone who does not look and think like them.

Last year one of them looked at me oddly and asked if I was a "tree hugger." Looked 'em in the eye and said "Yep, all my life." I suspect it changed their opinion of me.

My daddy's family are all redneck bigots. Again, they don't fear minorities they just flat out hate anyone "different." They consider anyone who is not white, male and of European descent as inferior. To their "credit" (heavy sarcasm) they are equal opportunity bigots. Whether it's skin color, ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender, political beliefs, if you ain't just like them you are less than and hated.

[lizardlady]

@sarahsweets;

I said in my reply to OpenEyes that my daddy's family are hardcore bigots. They hate anyone who does not look and think like them. I'm glad we live at opposite ends of the country. I'd probably end up shooting off my mother to them if I had to deal with them now. I think you are wise to not spend the holidays with your uncle, etc.

I might be spending the holidays with family of my best friend. The relatives are very conservative, very bigoted. I'm trying to sort out what I can say or do if they start in. On one hand I don't want to have to listen to hate speech. On the other hand, I will be at their home. There's no way in hades I'm going to change the way they think/believe. I'm thinking of asking them not to use those words around me.

As for why racist/bigoted people seem to be everywhere lately... I believe they've been around all along. It's that the current environment gives them permission to be open about it.

[Open Eyes]

Open Eyes, I disagree that the root of racism is fear. At least it isn't always. My best friend's family are hard core racists. They are not afraid of minorities. They just plain hate anyone who does not look and think like them.

Last year one of them looked at me oddly and asked if I was a "tree hugger." Looked 'em in the eye and said "Yep, all my life." I suspect it changed their opinion of me.

My daddy's family are all redneck bigots. Again, they don't fear minorities they just flat out hate anyone "different." They consider anyone who is not white, male and of European descent as inferior. To their "credit" (heavy sarcasm) they are equal opportunity bigots. Whether it's skin color, ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender, political beliefs, if you ain't just like them you are less than and hated.

Perhaps the fear for them is accepting, some can NEVER accept and simply choose to hate. What gets me is hating due to skin color. My husband has olive skin color as he takes after his mother who comes from Portugal and portugese heritage. My daughter inherited what I consider a beautiful skin color, always somewhat tan? What I did not know until she was older is how she faced discrimination where some of her piers insisted she must be mexican or hispanic and was not "white" enough. Ugh, she never told me that when it happened and kept it to herself. My daughter was stunningly beautiful in her high school years, she did not think so according to her piers. (Just want to mention I live in a VERY blue state)

So it's unfortunate in that some individuals do "hate due to skin color", yes you are right.

[divine1966]

“Equal opportunity bigots”. Lol I know it’s not funny but made me chuckle, equal opportunity haters. Hate everyone who isn’t like them. I am convinced hate comes from ignorance. Some people don’t comprehend much and don’t know much (not due to cognitive limitations, simply due to lack of desire to learn anything), live isolated lives, read conspiracy theories, repeat what others say mindlessly, never travelled and never experienced diversity and are too lazy to learn. Sadly their ignorance causes problems to others who are on a receiving end of their hatred. Sad.

I kind of agree that most people don’t change their ways. But some do. The ones willing to learn and explore and step out of their limited surrounding and open their horizons. Some do change their ways. For example, I know people who were convinced that homosexuality is a choice, they simply lack education and knowledge on the matter. When they made an effort to learn, they discovered how wrong they were. It’s commendable. It’s never too late to learn and grow. There is hope for some people.

[divine1966]

Oh I agree lizard lady, bigots were always there. They are just more comfortable exposing their views right now.

I grew up with Black kids as friends my entire life. My best friend in 1st grade was a Black boy in my class My 2nd best friend was a Hispanic boy. My 3rd best friend was an Asian girl. In first grade! My parents would let me walk home from school to their houses (this was in the 1970s). I learned about these 3 cultures from my elementary school friends’ families, which I’m so grateful for.

The rude awakening came by the time I hit high school. Kids in high school and college can and are SO racist, when they don’t grow up in a family environment where tolerance of all races is the norm. I remember eating dinner at my friend Kyle’s when I was 8 years old. His older siblings and his parents just accepted me — this little while girl — for who I was, not b/c I was white. They taught me about soul food, gospel music, and were really nice to me and I always felt happy at Kyle’s house. But the kids I went to high school with — rich white kids who never experienced racial diversity and were just complete assholes to any minority students who were enrolled there. I’ll never forget it. Same story at my college; despite the racial diversity, racist white kids galore there from wealthy families. My best friend in college was a Black gal from Detroit. She was so much fun! We were great friends.

I have zero tolerance for racists. Maybe that makes me as bad as the racists? That I won’t tolerate bigotry?