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Default Jan 17, 2021 at 09:08 AM
  #21
I posted this in my other thread, but it really belongs here.

Death always has a profound influence on me and makes me deeply reflect on life. Life is SO very precious and short.

If I gained one thing from this tragic experience, it's a good reminder to me about being happy in life. I refuse to be in unhappy situations or circumstances and always have.

And there is always a way out, other than suicide. It's SO sad to me that he felt he had no option BUT. I fell in love with his potential and all that I saw in him that I thought was good, positive and amazing. I always thought he had great potential, yet he just couldn't get himself off the ground - and apparently never did, which saddens me immensely. In the beginning, I only saw the good in him and I believed in him. When we broke up, he said to me thank you for believing in me when I couldn't.

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Default Jan 18, 2021 at 06:06 AM
  #22
I went to my parent's home yesterday and we talked at length about my ex fiance. They had met him several times. Their first impression was that he had no center, that he was very needy and very dependent on me. They did not speak well of him at all yesterday.

And I felt badly for speaking poorly of him after his death. There's something about me that doesn't like to do so. I don't want him hearing these things from an afterlife - I don't want to criticize someone who has just passed.

I wanted to focus more so on the tragic reality that this poor man felt he had no other choice and no other options.

Perhaps I have far too much compassion for people who do not deserve my compassion. Yes, he was abusive towards me. Yes, he turned my life into a nightmare for those three and 1/2 months that he lived with me. I had to kick him out of the home after several months. It was a terrible time in my life and I had a terrible experience with him towards the end.

Regardless of the harm he caused me, I still feel compassion for him. I had forgiven him for everything he did last December by email.

It's very very sad to me that he never found the help he needed in order to be and feel successful in life. It's a real tragedy, and I felt his grandmother's enormous pain the other day when we spoke. She is still in shock and is totally heartbroken, naturally. She said he was like a son to them.

I am still processing this right now. I know I will move on soon and will focus on other important things in my life that I must attend to. But this has effected me deeply, and it's just so very sad.

I won't be speaking with my parents about this again.

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Default Jan 18, 2021 at 08:42 AM
  #23
Honestly the way this man was in every aspect and how the whole thing transpired no parents would find that acceptable or had good things to say. I’d be devastated if my daughter brought someone like him home. And if anyone abused her! I’d of course have to accept thats who she chose but I wouldn’t have much blessing in my heart. You have to look at it from their position, why would they speak nicely of him

I don’t think it’s realistic to never speak poorly of people who died. Your parents didn’t speak poorly of him at the funeral or to his family, that would be unacceptable. You were with him rather briefly in a long scheme of things and they likely don’t feel like they have to offer so much comfort to you now or find good things to say. Would they have to do it for every ex you had? Did they know his family? They could send a card.

I think you seeking comfort from wrong people about death of an ex (your soon to be ex and your parents) and maybe the amount of comfort you need about this man passing sounds excessive to them. Are you still seeing a therapist? Do any of your friends knew him or you had mutual friends? You could comfort each other better if you all knew him well.

I wonder if this death devastated you so much because of current divorce and maybe it triggers something else? Does it mask the pain over divorce? Sometimes we subconsciously shift pain on to something else
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Default Jan 18, 2021 at 09:09 AM
  #24
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I wonder if this death devastated you so much because of current divorce and maybe it triggers something else? Does it mask the pain over divorce? Sometimes we subconsciously shift pain on to something else
This. Yes, perhaps so. My emotions are haywire right now about my divorce AND my ex's death.

I also have been in my ex's shoes several times in my life. Perhaps I identify with the hopelessness he must have felt. I empathize a lot with him over how awful he must have felt at the time.

Perhaps it's simply just being empathetic to his plight. Or perhaps it's something more.

I am no longer seeing a therapist due to costs, but I have my abuse advocate who functions similar to a therapist. She's supporting me through my divorce right now. I will speak with her on Wed this week again.

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Default Jan 18, 2021 at 09:42 AM
  #25
Of course being emphatic about what happened to him is normal regardless how he treated you. He died in young age.

I am just saying that expecting your husband, and especially your soon to be husband, and your parents feel much about it or offering much condolences or much comfort is not very realistic
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Default Jan 18, 2021 at 09:46 AM
  #26
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Of course being emphatic about what happened to him is normal regardless how he treated you. He died in young age.

I am just saying that expecting your husband, and especially your soon to be husband, and your parents feel much about it or offering much condolences or much comfort is not very realistic
I expected my parents at the very least to be supportive - why wouldn't I? We're very close - sure, they may be more defensive about him on my behalf, but I didn't anticipate them completely bashing him as much as they did. I get it, but the poor guy killed himself. I think it deserves RESPECT at the very least.

And my husband? I expected some amount of sympathy. Yet he made it all about himself, as usual.

I have standards in behavior - they're high, but a death and suicide? I expect ppl in the face of loss and death to provide sympathy. I don't feel this is unrealistic.

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Last edited by Have Hope; Jan 18, 2021 at 10:05 AM..
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Default Jan 18, 2021 at 10:16 AM
  #27
You are divorcing your husband so emotions are raw on both sides. He might not have it in him to comfort you over death of another man. If he was the person providing with what you need during marriage, you’d not be divorcing. He is soon to be ex.

Your soon to be ex husband has been abusive and unfaithful and that’s why you are divorcing him. You now want him to be kind and loving and become nurturing and comforting over death of your other ex.

I get that you expect him to be comforting but not too many soon to be ex husbands would especially when it’s so emotionally volatile. You told him he is a monster and you hate him (for good reasons) but now you want him to turn around and support you grieving over some other guy. Your husband is a moron but even he cannot be expected to do all that.

I do get high standards in behaviors. But why do you expect high standards from your husband if you are divorcing him? If he behaved with high standards, you’d stay married. And if you have high standards in people ( I know you do) why do you go for low standard people but then expect high standard behaviors. That’s why I said it’s unrealistic. It’s like trying to buy flowers in a butcher shop. They don’t carry them

I don’t know about parents. Not sure. My daughter is a widow. She is getting married second time. My daughter was in a bad shape when my dear son in law died and she needed a lot of support from all of us on both sides of the family. It was a painful ordeal. Perhaps your parents don’t feel they need to provide support as if you were a widow or at least a current girlfriend or this man was continuous presence in everyone’s life. And they are supporting you in divorce so they might not have much left to give. Aren’t they older? Plus you said they aren’t usually that supportive

I just don’t think you need another thing to be upset about. How these people react to the ex’s death. It’s not in your control.
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Default Jan 18, 2021 at 10:22 AM
  #28
Divine, it's not logic, it's emotion. Emotion is not logical. And I have had purely an emotional response to his death.

However, I expect people to have compassion for someone who felt so hopeless in their life, that they had no option but to kill themselves. And I expect those who care about me to have compassion for ME through a loss of someone I used to care about.

I expect my husband to be humane and human. He is not human. I didn't expect him to console and comfort me, no - I expected him to have a human response.

I told him he's a monster after his response about my ex fiance's passing, making it all about HIM, instead of acknowledging and having compassion over a tragedy.

But you're right - I will let all of this go. I have an interview and other issues to focus on.

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Last edited by Have Hope; Jan 18, 2021 at 11:53 AM..
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Default Jan 18, 2021 at 03:06 PM
  #29
I dont think its wrong to have expectations about what people should provide you. The thing is though that expectations can never be met if the people you are expecting from do not know what they are. I know that seems silly but IME its true. There is nothing wrong with high standards. But if the people we expect to meet these standards havent met them before or have no intentions of meeting them at all, we are bound to be hurt and dissapointed.. Perhaps your parents thought because the exfiance was dead it was ok to bash him. I would have immediately said that bashing was not ok, and what I needed was xyz. I am guessing the shock over their bashing jarred you so you werent able to say anything in the moment. And because you werent able to say anything maybe they thought they had a go pass and that you didnt mind. As far as current husband goes I would say the same thing may apply. I believe you probably have already told him what you need. And youve told him what your standards are. He has proven over and over again that he cant meet them. In fact Id go so far as to say he WONT meet them. That is a choice. He probaby thought his lack of compassion would be a nice weapon to hurt you with. Sadly it was and it did hurt. But he has proven over and over how awful he is so dont expect anything, ever from him again.

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Default Jan 18, 2021 at 03:13 PM
  #30
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I dont think its wrong to have expectations about what people should provide you. The thing is though that expectations can never be met if the people you are expecting from do not know what they are. I know that seems silly but IME its true. There is nothing wrong with high standards. But if the people we expect to meet these standards havent met them before or have no intentions of meeting them at all, we are bound to be hurt and dissapointed.. Perhaps your parents thought because the exfiance was dead it was ok to bash him. I would have immediately said that bashing was not ok, and what I needed was xyz. I am guessing the shock over their bashing jarred you so you werent able to say anything in the moment. And because you werent able to say anything maybe they thought they had a go pass and that you didnt mind. As far as current husband goes I would say the same thing may apply. I believe you probably have already told him what you need. And youve told him what your standards are. He has proven over and over again that he cant meet them. In fact Id go so far as to say he WONT meet them. That is a choice. He probaby thought his lack of compassion would be a nice weapon to hurt you with. Sadly it was and it did hurt. But he has proven over and over how awful he is so dont expect anything, ever from him again.
Thanks @sarahsweets! Their bashing DID take me by surprise and I couldn't say anything in the moment - you are 100% accurate about that.

My husband has proven he is entirely selfish and self serving, even in the face of death, of all things. This was yet another shocker for me. Yet another wake up call amidst my grief, and yet another indication of his true colors. No, I will never expect anything other than pure selfishness from him.

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Default Jan 18, 2021 at 03:37 PM
  #31
I don't know, @Have Hope. If everybody around you show no compassion towards the man then maybe it's you who has too much empathy (again?). As I said before, a tragic death in eyes of many people (including me) does not give absolution. He was who he was. Suicide doesn't change that. Don't blame them, I think criticism would be a natural response of many people in such circumstances.
 
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Default Jan 18, 2021 at 03:51 PM
  #32
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I don't know, @Have Hope. If everybody around you show no compassion towards the man then maybe it's you who has too much empathy (again?). As I said before, a tragic death in eyes of many people (including me) does not give absolution. He was who he was. Suicide doesn't change that. Don't blame them, I think criticism would be a natural response of many people in such circumstances.
@MisterPaul, I'd FAR rather have empathy and be who I am than have none at all. No one will understand how I feel. And yes, I feel badly for the guy. Does that make me a sad specimen of a person because I feel sadness and empathy over his obvious pain? It makes me a very good hearted person, which is what I'd rather be in this world.

And no, his suicide does not absolve him, but I forgave him. And our relationship was long ago at this point - four years ago. I chose to walk away from that relationship and for a very good reason. But people can forgive, let go and move forward in their lives. That's what forgiveness is. I have let go of all the pain he caused me. There is no reason for me to harp on it at this point in time.

And why on earth do I need to conform to how everyone else is responding about it? I am an independent person and an independent thinker. I don't have to follow suit. And I'm the one who was involved with him, not my parents and not my husband.

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Default Jan 18, 2021 at 05:46 PM
  #33
There is nothing wrong with you feeling empathy and compassion and being sad about death of this man. There is no issue with you feeling any type of emotions. It’s your right. I don’t believe anyone tells you to not be compassionate.

I think your expectation that other people must feel sympathy towards someone they’ve never met or met only few times and only knew him as your extreme abuser is unusual. You could feel empathy but why do they have to? Especially if he caused you harm? Why must they grieve him?

And maybe they aren’t providing sufficient comfort for you because they don’t feel it’s YOUR loss like you are his widow and need comfort. I am sure they’d not speak poorly of him to people whose loss it truly is, his family.

You are married to someone else. My daughter was in a brief relationship after her sweet husband died. The guy was asinine, she got out quick. He was horrid, she was vulnerable and he was one of those who preyed on vulnerable women. She is now getting married. To a wonderful man. My loyalty is to him. Not to a jerk she encountered. If that horrible man she was with died, I’d not rejoice of course, it’s evil. But I’d not be overcome with grief. He hurt my daughter, my daughter would never expect me to be all empathic and sympathetic and grieve over this dude I can’t care less about. She’d never expect that. It doesn’t mean she is not compassionate or that I lack empathy. We are very loving people

You are right, you could grieve over this man even though he was extreme abuser but your parents and husband have no obligation to have any particular feelings about him or his death. They didn’t even know him.
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Default Jan 18, 2021 at 07:23 PM
  #34
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There is nothing wrong with you feeling empathy and compassion and being sad about death of this man. There is no issue with you feeling any type of emotions. It’s your right. I don’t believe anyone tells you to not be compassionate.

I think your expectation that other people must feel sympathy towards someone they’ve never met or met only few times and only knew him as your extreme abuser is unusual. You could feel empathy but why do they have to? Especially if he caused you harm? Why must they grieve him?

And maybe they aren’t providing sufficient comfort for you because they don’t feel it’s YOUR loss like you are his widow and need comfort. I am sure they’d not speak poorly of him to people whose loss it truly is, his family.

You are married to someone else. My daughter was in a brief relationship after her sweet husband died. The guy was asinine, she got out quick. He was horrid, she was vulnerable and he was one of those who preyed on vulnerable women. She is now getting married. To a wonderful man. My loyalty is to him. Not to a jerk she encountered. If that horrible man she was with died, I’d not rejoice of course, it’s evil. But I’d not be overcome with grief. He hurt my daughter, my daughter would never expect me to be all empathic and sympathetic and grieve over this dude I can’t care less about. She’d never expect that. It doesn’t mean she is not compassionate or that I lack empathy. We are very loving people

You are right, you could grieve over this man even though he was extreme abuser but your parents and husband have no obligation to have any particular feelings about him or his death. They didn’t even know him.
Divine, you misunderstood me. Maybe I have not explained myself well enough. I wasn't expecting compassion for HIM; I was expecting compassion for ME and for what I was experiencing after hearing this horrific news.

No, no one close to me knew him like I did. But a close girlfriend of mine just said it perfectly to me: I had been intimately close with him for a year - we were long distance for 5-6 months first before everything went to hell. During those 5-6 months, I felt sheer and utter happiness with him. We were on cloud 9 and totally in love. He impacted me. I have never given more of myself to anyone. Sure, it was the wrong person to give myself to in the end. But he was a potent and important aspect of my life.

No one realizes this in my family. And perhaps I haven't explained myself well enough to them to elicit their compassion for me and the level of grief and devastation I felt.

And honestly I think they were myopic in their perspective. What they spoke of was how selfish it is to commit suicide. They thought about how it would impact THEM, if something like that had happened to THEM, which is selfish by itself.

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Trig Jan 18, 2021 at 08:07 PM
  #35
Discussing that suicide is selfish is ignorant of them. No one knows why people do what they do plus they didn’t even know him. That’s I agree was not right at all

It sounds like those 5-6 months you were not seeing each other in person and dating virtually and a lot of sheer happiness was a bit of a fantasy. When he arrived in person, he turned out to be not a wonderful love story and he was not suitable for relationship and abusive to boot. I wonder if when you broke up, you grieved the version of him that you thought he was, like grieving a dream that could never come true. And you are doing it all over again

Maybe that’s why it is so intense and others just don’t get it because they kind of know of real him. Abusive, mean and dishonest. They don’t feel like it warrants comforting you

I do understand you want them to comfort you but they see him as an abuser and might not understand why you need comfort about his death. You only knew each other for a year and only 3 and a half months in person and he was bad news and mean to you. They might not grasp why is it so intense

What was so profound about him and his place in your life? Did you feel that’s how real love feels? but you didn’t really know him. You were in love with a fantasy, real him was so mean to you. I feel like there is something that causes these intense emotions and not fully moving on from these troublesome men. Like even when you have a new man you are still not moved on from the old one. It keeps on lingering and resurfacing

I should bow out. I don’t want you to keep suffering about these abusers but I guess i am not helpful. I just have real fear that you’ll keep going for these men and as more abusive they are, more intense you feel for them and more important they are for you. Like the most abusive is the most important. That kind of scares me. I hope you can discuss this with abuse advocate or with good therapist in the future.

Wish you the best
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Default Jan 18, 2021 at 08:35 PM
  #36
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Discussing that suicide is selfish is ignorant of them. No one knows why people do what they do plus they didn’t even know him. That’s I agree was not right at all

It sounds like those 5-6 months you were not seeing each other in person and dating virtually and a lot of sheer happiness was a bit of a fantasy. When he arrived in person, he turned out to be not a wonderful love story and he was not suitable for relationship and abusive to boot. I wonder if when you broke up, you grieved the version of him that you thought he was, like grieving a dream that could never come true. And you are doing it all over again

Maybe that’s why it is so intense and others just don’t get it because they kind of know of real him. Abusive, mean and dishonest. They don’t feel like it warrants comforting you

I do understand you want them to comfort you but they see him as an abuser and might not understand why you need comfort about his death. You only knew each other for a year and only 3 and a half months in person and he was bad news and mean to you. They might not grasp why is it so intense

What was so profound about him and his place in your life? Did you feel that’s how real love feels? but you didn’t really know him. You were in love with a fantasy, real him was so mean to you. I feel like there is something that causes these intense emotions and not fully moving on from these troublesome men. Like even when you have a new man you are still not moved on from the old one. It keeps on lingering and resurfacing

I should bow out. I don’t want you to keep suffering about these abusers but I guess i am not helpful. I just have real fear that you’ll keep going for these men and as more abusive they are, more intense you feel for them and more important they are for you. Like the most abusive is the most important. That kind of scares me. I hope you can discuss this with abuse advocate or with good therapist in the future.

Wish you the best
It's intense because I can relate. I almost went to the hospital the other night because I was suicidal myself!

I am not grieving the loss of a fantasy. I already did that and went through that process.

No one seems to get it. No one understands. I will close this thread.

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Default Jan 18, 2021 at 08:45 PM
  #37
((((((((Have Hope))))))))



Have Hope, I'm very sorry for your pain upon hearing this news.

((((((((Have Hope))))))))

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Default Jan 18, 2021 at 08:56 PM
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Have Hope, I'm very sorry for your pain upon hearing this news.

((((((((Have Hope))))))))

Thanks so much @Bill3.

I have asked Admin to close the thread now.

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Default Jan 18, 2021 at 09:15 PM
  #39
I am sorry. I get it, death to suicide is very hard to cope. I am familiar with it, I lost people to it. I get it why your feelings about his death are intense and you being able to relate.

What I meant by not getting “why it’s so intense” I meant why your attachment to him is so intense, you found out he died because you googled him. I failed to grasp why he is so important. So I guess that’s what I didn’t get.

Grief I understand. Sadly grief is a lonely feeling because no one can ever truly understand someone else’s feeling of grief. It’s a private feeling. Sorry again. You know I am on your side, just failed to grasp about this guy.

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