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Default Feb 27, 2021 at 01:57 PM
  #61
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Nah. My self esteem is intact. It's not dependent on what others say or do. I outgrew that a long time ago. All I feel is anger. No shame, no guilt, just a lot of frustration and anger.
Understood. Thanks for correcting me. A lot of frustration and anger.. do you mean at present or in general and overall?

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Lightbulb Feb 27, 2021 at 03:34 PM
  #62
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Understood. Thanks for correcting me. A lot of frustration and anger.. do you mean at present or in general and overall?
It's all relative, one person's agony may be someone elses pain, but pain comes in degrees.

It's new behavior from him since my last inpatient. I was out of control. It was bad, very very bad. I was crying, screaming at everyone, including the police. I refused to take my meds because I wa still having meltdowns so I thought it was useless to swallow a bunch of useless chemicals (8) that weren't stopping my insanity.
Finally I sent a text telling my p-doc that I was getting out of control. He texted me back to tell me to get my *** to the hospital. I cried and pitched a fit.

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Default Feb 27, 2021 at 07:02 PM
  #63
I am sorry you struggled so much that you had to go inpatient. It sounds like that may have frightened your husband and he can experience triggers. You seem to have recovered from being triggered. That’s good.
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Default Feb 27, 2021 at 08:08 PM
  #64
There have been a number of Things in my nearly 40-year marriage. The biggest, most glaring THING is always about finances. My husband is an abusive control freak when it comes to me spending any money at all. I'm talking a single dollar. Seriously. In part I hate him for it. In part I recognize that his behavior is an aspect of his OC personality.


But then, I'm sure he could list Things about me, too.

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Default Feb 28, 2021 at 04:01 AM
  #65
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Understood. Thanks for correcting me. A lot of frustration and anger.. do you mean at present or in general and overall?
Just at present. He hasn't always been like this. I think everything changed when I went on permanent disability.

I'm not going to pretend like marriage is easy. It takes a lot of work and good communication and you sure as hell better be able to tolerate one another. Be friends first and lovers second. That's the basics. All the other stuff that happens over the decades, the fights, the making up, children, two careers, four houses, one small business, shooting competitions, Disney World, a German Shepherd dog, 4 cats, a hedgehog, and a skink (lizard).

In the last few years, things have not been so good. While I'm better now due to ketamine and lithium, I can't deny my crazies. When I'm having an episode, I know it's miserable for my family, but nobody seems to stop and think that it just might be worse for me. That's what I'm really fed up about. I'm sick of people whining because I'm sick. My husband just happens to be the worst offender at the moment.

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Default Feb 28, 2021 at 08:40 AM
  #66
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When I'm having an episode, I know it's miserable for my family, but nobody seems to stop and think that it just might be worse for me. That's what I'm really fed up about. I'm sick of people whining because I'm sick.
I totally understand this. Sometimes the conversation around how hard it is for caregivers/family is so offensive because they speak like it isn't so much worse for us, the people experiencing it.

Not asking them to ignore the impact it has on them, but they often seem to forget that it's way worse for us.

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Meds I've tried: Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa, Effexor, Remeron, Elavil, Wellbutrin, Risperidone, Abilify, Prazosin, Paxil, Trazadone, Tramadol, Topomax, Xanax, Propranolol, Valium, Visteril, Vraylar, Selinor, Clonopin, Ambien

Treatments I've done: CBT, DBT, Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS), Talk therapy, psychotherapy, exercise, diet, sleeping more, sleeping less...
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Default Feb 28, 2021 at 11:02 AM
  #67
I get frustrated in wanting others to understand how hard it is for me, how much work it can be when I get triggered and that it's not a question of making a conscious decision to experience a trigger. Yet, at the same time I know that had I not experienced this challenge first hand, I would not understand it either. And even when someone tries to learn about a MI challenge, it doesn't mean that person is going to suddenly understand it the way the person suffering wishes they would.

What stood out to me @Werewoman is that even though you got so triggered, you managed to get it under control. That's progress rather than carrying that anger and resentment for days or weeks on end. When I saw your thread title and then read what you shared, honestly, I know that question very intimately "when do you say enough?". I began to understand what you wanted too. I know how that goes as well. Sometimes even trying to spell it out for another person doesn't work. And it can turn into the kind of response that makes it harder, you know what I mean, one of those "just" responses that never helps one iota.

Yes, you are right about how many things a couple has to learn about through 30 years of all kinds of things that come into their lives. There certainly is a lot of gray isn't there? And sometimes there is a "thing" that a partner never seems to get. That's especially challenging when it comes to battling a MI. I know what you wanted, that certain freedom to do something big for yourself and be able to enjoy it instead of having that turn into some kind of "kill joy". It's actually amazing how far back that can go for someone. Sometimes there can be "a thing" that has power over a person that they don't really choose, it's just there in the subconscious mind that is wrapped in confusing emotions.

One movie I think was amazing for it's time and what was known at the time about MI was "The Snakepit". Without using the labels we have now, so much was revealed in that movie and the patience the psychologist had to help the main charector figure out "why" she was struggling so badly that she could not function. He finally helped her figure out "the thing" she carried that could cripple her that she was not aware of.

I wanted to focus more on "the thing" that upsets you. And your husband doesn't understand, and he can get triggered and frustrated, but he does love you and tries. This "thing" is so hard to put into words, but the feeling it causes can be intense, even crippling, much like in that movie that slowly unfolded to where this woman could finally see what it really was. And medications only help so much, often "the thing" has a lot of power and often the medication helps reduce the impact of whatever it might be until we can sort through it and then work on healing and controlling it better.
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Default Mar 01, 2021 at 01:25 PM
  #68
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I get frustrated in wanting others to understand how hard it is for me, how much work it can be when I get triggered and that it's not a question of making a conscious decision to experience a trigger. Yet, at the same time I know that had I not experienced this challenge first hand, I would not understand it either. And even when someone tries to learn about a MI challenge, it doesn't mean that person is going to suddenly understand it the way the person suffering wishes they would.

What stood out to me @Werewoman is that even though you got so triggered, you managed to get it under control. That's progress rather than carrying that anger and resentment for days or weeks on end. When I saw your thread title and then read what you shared, honestly, I know that question very intimately "when do you say enough?". I began to understand what you wanted too. I know how that goes as well. Sometimes even trying to spell it out for another person doesn't work. And it can turn into the kind of response that makes it harder, you know what I mean, one of those "just" responses that never helps one iota.

Yes, you are right about how many things a couple has to learn about through 30 years of all kinds of things that come into their lives. There certainly is a lot of gray isn't there? And sometimes there is a "thing" that a partner never seems to get. That's especially challenging when it comes to battling a MI. I know what you wanted, that certain freedom to do something big for yourself and be able to enjoy it instead of having that turn into some kind of "kill joy". It's actually amazing how far back that can go for someone. Sometimes there can be "a thing" that has power over a person that they don't really choose, it's just there in the subconscious mind that is wrapped in confusing emotions.

One movie I think was amazing for it's time and what was known at the time about MI was "The Snakepit". Without using the labels we have now, so much was revealed in that movie and the patience the psychologist had to help the main charector figure out "why" she was struggling so badly that she could not function. He finally helped her figure out "the thing" she carried that could cripple her that she was not aware of.

I wanted to focus more on "the thing" that upsets you. And your husband doesn't understand, and he can get triggered and frustrated, but he does love you and tries. This "thing" is so hard to put into words, but the feeling it causes can be intense, even crippling, much like in that movie that slowly unfolded to where this woman could finally see what it really was. And medications only help so much, often "the thing" has a lot of power and often the medication helps reduce the impact of whatever it might be until we can sort through it and then work on healing and controlling it better.
As always, your words of wisdom ring in my ears.
Thank you for being you!

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Default Mar 03, 2021 at 12:58 PM
  #69
Well, it would seem I have it all wrong. He says I'm an electrical socket and he's tired of getting shocked. Understandable. I didn't think I was that bad, but apparently I am.

I have a cousin, he's older than me and both he and his mother have battled bipolar so I talk with him frequently about it. Basically he told me I needed to "own my bipolar" if I ever want to learn to control it. I'm not sure what he means, and so far he hasn't answered me yet, but he will, and usually he says things I don't want to hear. 😁

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Default Mar 03, 2021 at 04:27 PM
  #70
Well you have bipolar and cptsd too. I think what your husband is trying to say is that you can trigger him. It sounds like he loves you yet genuinely gets confused.

Mental illness is no picnic. And others struggle to understand it. People don’t understand unless they experience it for themselves.

I think it’s a step in the right direction that you are trying to listen. I think it’s also a positive that you recovered instead of going on and on with anger etc. Thats a big deal.
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Default Mar 04, 2021 at 12:12 PM
  #71
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Well you have bipolar and cptsd too. I think what your husband is trying to say is that you can trigger him. It sounds like he loves you yet genuinely gets confused.

Mental illness is no picnic. And others struggle to understand it. People don’t understand unless they experience it for themselves.

I think it’s a step in the right direction that you are trying to listen. I think it’s also a positive that you recovered instead of going on and on with anger etc. Thats a big deal.
The more I pursue answers, the worse it gets. This morning the first thing he said was that he was just waiting for the next meltdown that he's gonna have to deal with. After that it was just all negativity complaining about triggers and I don't remember what all. I was hyperfocused on staying calm.

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Default Mar 04, 2021 at 10:25 PM
  #72
Well it sounds like he needed to vent some frustration out. Don’t absorb it and just listen and stay calm. Learning to manage your challenge takes time. Remember medication only helps so managing better can happen and it doesn’t happen over night.
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Default Mar 05, 2021 at 06:06 AM
  #73
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The more I pursue answers, the worse it gets. This morning the first thing he said was that he was just waiting for the next meltdown that he's gonna have to deal with. After that it was just all negativity complaining about triggers and I don't remember what all. I was hyperfocused on staying calm.
It sounds to me like he isn'.t supportive to you through your meltdowns and instead is negative towards you about your illness and all that you go through. Ideally, he would try to support you through each meltdown and he would read up on your MI so he can support you effectively. It seems instead you receive negative remarks and condemnation.

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Default Mar 05, 2021 at 12:14 PM
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It sounds to me like he isn'.t supportive to you through your meltdowns and instead is negative towards you about your illness and all that you go through. Ideally, he would try to support you through each meltdown and he would read up on your MI so he can support you effectively. It seems instead you receive negative remarks and condemnation.
In all fairness, when I lose control, it's really bad, but I do wish he would try harder to understand what mental illness is. He believes he knows, but his ignorance is obvious at times.

This is all new behavior for him. He's always looked after me, reminding me to take my meds and eat something. I have no appetite. That's why none of this makes sense. Why does it bother him now. Is it just that after 25 years of dealing with me, he reached the end of his rope.

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Default Mar 05, 2021 at 12:29 PM
  #75
He could word it differently. Like he worries about you having more meltdowns or what not. “Gonna have to deal with” is a little harsh. I understand he is tired and it cannot be easy. His delivery is a bit off though.
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Default Mar 05, 2021 at 01:23 PM
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In all fairness, when I lose control, it's really bad, but I do wish he would try harder to understand what mental illness is. He believes he knows, but his ignorance is obvious at times.

This is all new behavior for him. He's always looked after me, reminding me to take my meds and eat something. I have no appetite. That's why none of this makes sense. Why does it bother him now. Is it just that after 25 years of dealing with me, he reached the end of his rope.
Mental illness is hard even for those suffering from it to understand even when they try to learn about it. It’s good that you admit that you have had very bad episodes. IMHO your husband is probably triggered and wonders if you are going to have a bad episode. When it happens he probably feels helpless and men especially do not like to feel helpless.
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Default Mar 05, 2021 at 05:41 PM
  #77
I, for one, am not expecting him to be superhuman but to demonstrate basic human compassion towards someone (his spouse!) who is struggling with a MI. Is that too much to ask to show some respect rather than to lose it and treat you so badly? I really don't see how that is helpful.

I also don't see it as justifiable that just because someone (he) runs out of patience, it is okay to demean, shout down, abuse someone else.
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Default Mar 06, 2021 at 07:08 AM
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I, for one, am not expecting him to be superhuman but to demonstrate basic human compassion towards someone (his spouse!) who is struggling with a MI. Is that too much to ask to show some respect rather than to lose it and treat you so badly? I really don't see how that is helpful.

I also don't see it as justifiable that just because someone (he) runs out of patience, it is okay to demean, shout down, abuse someone else.
This is not normal behavior. He's been supportive all along through the decades. I really wonder if he's burned out.
My cousin who is also bipolar gave me some great advice. He told me I have to own it first, then it will be easier to control. I needed a few days to think about what he meant by that, and I think it means taking 100% responsibility for your illness and how it affects others. Own the meltdowns, the sudden outbursts of anger, own it even when you don't remember what you did (happens to me a lot). I stopped blaming everything I do wrong on my illness, stopped making excuses, like throwing a hairbrush through the bedroom window and saying I was aiming for the wall. I have damaged walls, doors, and furniture in a fit of rage. I don't know if it will stop or not. Time will tell.

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Default Mar 06, 2021 at 09:04 AM
  #79
When it comes to MI, it can be a lot of work to control how it affects us. You have two conditions that can be very challenging for your conscious mind to get under control. It's like when someone suffers from migrane headaches and they get so bad the person can't function. It's not something that person can JUST decide not to have and struggle with. And some have learned to do things despite the genuine pain of the migrane and others that don't have that problem don't know how challenging that makes doing tasks despite that pain is.

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In all fairness, when I lose control, it's really bad, but I do wish he would try harder to understand what mental illness is. He believes he knows, but his ignorance is obvious at times.
I have felt this myself in that I suffered horrible ptsd episodes and I felt frightened and very alone with it. Yet, as I mentioned other people are not going to genuinely understand it unless they experience it for themselves. In fact, people can say some throughtless and disrespectful things when it comes to ptsd. Like, it's the new in thing to say now. For someone who genuinely struggles with it, hearing that said in such a dismissive way can actually be triggering and disrespectful like what an abuser would say.

Quote:
The more I pursue answers, the worse it gets. This morning the first thing he said was that he was just waiting for the next meltdown that he's gonna have to deal with. After that it was just all negativity complaining about triggers and I don't remember what all. I was hyperfocused on staying calm.
Oh boy, can I relate to this! My husband has witnessed me experience flashbacks, and he has witnessed someone who is extremely toxic trigger me into having a flashback too. Yet, he can say all the wrong things even though he witnesses it. YES!!! I have had that same kind of reaction where there was negativity and I tune that out because I too am hyperfocused on staying calm. That is why I wanted to focus on "that thing" with you. And I also noticed that while you did get triggered, you managed to overcome it too. It can be something a medication helps with to a certain extent. At least enough to notice "the thing" and better define it. I know that's important because in order to tame something the first step is "name it to tame it".

Wouldn't it be nice if others around us could understand that? I wish I could say any therapist would know, but that's not true either. Yet when one does actually know, it can make all the difference in the world.

It IS important though to keep in mind that your husband has witnessed you experience some really bad episodes, so in all fairness to him he won't know how bad you are going to get. That is scary for anyone and not an easy thing to be around. I try to keep that in mind when my husband reacts badly when I need him to be calm and more supportive instead.

We cannot go and change our past, however, it's important to one's mental health to understand how our past affected us in ways we did not realize and cause problems for us in the present. There are times where I can't understand what is triggering me, it can take a lot of time to figure it out. When I do figure it out and try to describe it and put it into words? The one thing I hate to hear is "well if you know that then JUST or DON'T ALLOW". Truth is that just because we identify something, it doesn't mean it JUST stops affecting us or isn't intrusive when something similar takes place.

People can say some pretty mean things. Yes, they can claim they know because maybe they read about a certain MI challenge, yet, their responses clearly show they STILL don't get it. When that happens, I have to try to work on being patient with that too on top of my inner challenge with PTSD and so many traumas that go way back for me. Oh I can definitely relate to "the more I pursue answers the worse it gets". I can't say enough the patience one has to develop to slowly unravel the things we may not have consciously realized hurt us and can come forward so intrusively. What I can say is that when some else "gets it", it's such a comfort and can help us not feel so alone with it.
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Default Mar 06, 2021 at 02:31 PM
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When it comes to MI, it can be a lot of work to control how it affects us. You have two conditions that can be very challenging for your conscious mind to get under control. It's like when someone suffers from migrane headaches and they get so bad the person can't function. It's not something that person can JUST decide not to have and struggle with. And some have learned to do things despite the genuine pain of the migrane and others that don't have that problem don't know how challenging that makes doing tasks despite that pain is.


I have felt this myself in that I suffered horrible ptsd episodes and I felt frightened and very alone with it. Yet, as I mentioned other people are not going to genuinely understand it unless they experience it for themselves. In fact, people can say some throughtless and disrespectful things when it comes to ptsd. Like, it's the new in thing to say now. For someone who genuinely struggles with it, hearing that said in such a dismissive way can actually be triggering and disrespectful like what an abuser would say.


Oh boy, can I relate to this! My husband has witnessed me experience flashbacks, and he has witnessed someone who is extremely toxic trigger me into having a flashback too. Yet, he can say all the wrong things even though he witnesses it. YES!!! I have had that same kind of reaction where there was negativity and I tune that out because I too am hyperfocused on staying calm. That is why I wanted to focus on "that thing" with you. And I also noticed that while you did get triggered, you managed to overcome it too. It can be something a medication helps with to a certain extent. At least enough to notice "the thing" and better define it. I know that's important because in order to tame something the first step is "name it to tame it".

Wouldn't it be nice if others around us could understand that? I wish I could say any therapist would know, but that's not true either. Yet when one does actually know, it can make all the difference in the world.

It IS important though to keep in mind that your husband has witnessed you experience some really bad episodes, so in all fairness to him he won't know how bad you are going to get. That is scary for anyone and not an easy thing to be around. I try to keep that in mind when my husband reacts badly when I need him to be calm and more supportive instead.

We cannot go and change our past, however, it's important to one's mental health to understand how our past affected us in ways we did not realize and cause problems for us in the present. There are times where I can't understand what is triggering me, it can take a lot of time to figure it out. When I do figure it out and try to describe it and put it into words? The one thing I hate to hear is "well if you know that then JUST or DON'T ALLOW". Truth is that just because we identify something, it doesn't mean it JUST stops affecting us or isn't intrusive when something similar takes place.

People can say some pretty mean things. Yes, they can claim they know because maybe they read about a certain MI challenge, yet, their responses clearly show they STILL don't get it. When that happens, I have to try to work on being patient with that too on top of my inner challenge with PTSD and so many traumas that go way back for me. Oh I can definitely relate to "the more I pursue answers the worse it gets". I can't say enough the patience one has to develop to slowly unravel the things we may not have consciously realized hurt us and can come forward so intrusively. What I can say is that when some else "gets it", it's such a comfort and can help us not feel so alone with it.
I just love you! it's like you're in my head. 😳 Are you sure that's a safe place to be? Cuz there's some crazy s**t flying around up there.

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You're only given one little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it. ~ Robin Williams

Did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? ~ Pink Floyd
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