Stuck in a Loop with my wife

My wife accuses me of lingering anger towards her, and of having small things escalate too quickly.

She's right.

She's a had a lot of health problems for a long time. I've carried a lot at home, for income, for caring for her at times, with the kids, etc.

She went through periods of true depression and I received a lot of verbal anger.

*I don't want to, or intend to speak poorly about her. I know she gave me 110% of the reserves she had, but she was tapped out for a long time., almost 10 years of crippling illness. I couldn't imagine the life she had. *

There were also things I really screwed up during these times. She DIDN'T get the emotional support from me she needed. I did the physical things that had to be done, but failed to look after her emotionally.

Her health has turned. Some answers have been found, and she is doing, much, much better in recent months.

I feel like I am bursting, all the time, waiting for some positve validation from her. I've told her very, very clearly what I need. I see her heaping validation and positivity on other people, including people that openly turned their backs on her 5 years ago during the worst of her illness.

The other thing is, that when she was sick, I was torn apart at times for the little bit of time I took to have with friends whose support I needed. I mean, guys who physically took burdens off my hands for things I couldn't keep up with, who later said, "Can you help me on Saturday with this project at my house." I was let know often where my responsibilities and time were supposed to be.

I feel like I waited for her for all these years. I feel like I cut ties with people I needed in my life, just be around more and do more at home. I was emotionally unavailable to my wife, I KNOW, because you have to bottle your emotions to get through something like we went through. I, literally, cleared her throat and kept her from gagging on her tongue more than once, and went to every doctor appointment with her for years. You can't do that, and work, and be the Dad, and be emotional.

Now she is flowing with positivity and life for everyone else.

My lingering desire for validation is really wrecking us now. I've been so bottled up for so long I can't talk without flooding with everything.

RDMercer

It sounds like you have been wonderful for many years.

Have you discussed your feelings with her?

I have. I don't do it well. I get angry quickly because a lot comes out.

I feel like I have been waiting my turn for emotional validation for a long time. I'm like a starving person. I don't just need validation, I need a lot of validation.

When I've told her that, she told me to address it with a therapist, that she's done all she's going to do.

The thing is, for her, she is still very vulnerable. She definitely has done some things to hear me and emotionally validate things we've gone through, she really has, BUT to do that very much means she has to face the effect her physical and mental illness had on me and the kids.

She wants a new life and a chance to re-connect with old friends, and I see these other people seeing and getting the best of her energy. She wants to shed all this negativity and pain.

Meanwhile, I'm starving for her to say I did a good job, that I looked after all of us, I literally kept us going and kept us alive, I took on new job roles during COVID shutdowns to keep us afloat and maintain income security for us, I maintained our home, made meals, looked after her.

And to her new circle of friends, I know I look like an *****, a bitter, cranky distant husband who isn't taking part in his wife's new found health. They have no idea how much I've done and carried, and for how long. They don't know how her pain and frustration was taken out on the kids at times, and how I intervened. I never made her look bad to the kids. I tried to validate them, and care for them and hug them and love them, and try to explain to them how much pain mom is in.

So Sorry you're going through this! Please Do not give up! It does seem like you're wishing to reconnect with your own wife but unfortunately this is something that both of you must want for it to work i think. Have you already tried to propose couple counseling to her if you haven't tried it already? i am not sure if she'd be willing but if she accepts it may prove useful perhaps. i think it's important to remember tha toyu have value outside of your own Marriage too although i can understand this may be hard for you. Perhaps individual therapy is not a bad idea either. Do what you can to improve yourself as long as you respect others of course. Stay Safe. Sending many safe, warm hugs to BOTH you, @RDMercer, your Family, your Friends and ALL of your Loved Ones! Keep fighting and keep rocking NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS, OK?!

It sounds like you are saying that you need more validation than she feels able to give. She has given you some, what she can, but not enough.

The reason, if I understand you correctly, that she can't give you the full acknowledgement that you deserve is that it would draw her attention to how devastating she was to the family--not intentionally, but it would be very hard for her to face even so.

Are you saying that she does feel sufficient gratitude, does recognize what you do, but isn't able to express that?

A particularly galling part of this is the energy she has for others. One perhaps wonders how can she have so much energy for others but not for you?

Maybe she does have that energy, but it feels too frightening to spend it in a way that brings her face to face with the devastation. Maybe it's emotionally easier to spend the energy elsewhere.

What sort of validation (if any) do you get from a therapist?

I notice the use of the passive voice here.

Why do you suppose that she is doing better? No doubt that by far the biggest reason is YOU.

So I have a suggestion fwiw.

How about if you write out everything you have done to support her, your family, those around you, during her illness?

Write this out in a lot of detail.

And then: take five minutes every day to reread that. And when I say reread it I mean slowly, carefully, envisioning what you are reading in your mind's eye.

Like it was a sacred text.

If your kids or wife are around at that moment, look at them as part of this process.

You wouldn't have to get through all of the writing every day, after five minutes simply take up where you left off on the next day.

I would propose doing this religiously every day for, say, 2-4 weeks.

I like this. It's like self validation.

I think I will add the things I know she's done to extend herself to all of us and cope.

My fear is, just SELF affirmation will polarize my thinking.

She's vulnerable.

I was able to progress in my career along the way too. Things like that were never celebrated because, as she said, it's a reminder she's been dead weight for a long time by comparison. My career progression in part off set our lost income.

The energy for others is infuriating, but she is finally able to leave the house regularly.

I helped her find health answers along the way, but she went through a large surgery in May that finally propelled things forward.

Thank you

My husband lived with a severe chronic health issue for our entire marriage, so I understand where you are coming from.

Let me make a suggestion though.

Rather than seeking validation for the past, work on renewing your relationship in the present. Set up date nights with each other. Take a trip (even a staycation). Start fresh rather than rehashing the past.

Part of my husband's struggles was mental: depression, delusion, some emotional blackmail. It was a difficult time. But he got past that (similarly to how you describe your wife), and rather than rehashing what we had been through, we chose to revitalize and reconnect. We took the time to date each other again. We renewed our commitment to our future. We regrouped and moved forward. We had to change direction rather than continuing to look backwards.

My husband's physical health never improved. I'm glad to hear your wife has had that blessing.

I lost my husband two months ago to Covid. Time is too short to lose over the past. Sit down with her and reconnect, not about the past - you both know what happened - but about the future. Time is short. My experience was that in our reconnection, I found the validation for everything I had gone through previously, not necessarily in words all the time, but certainly in action. Just don't put things on hold waiting for those words before you move forward. The words will eventually come. She knows what you did for her; she just may not be in a place to look back right now - that was a painful time for her and, if she is anything like my husband, she feels a lot of remorse for that.

There is your answer. It's quite clear to me. Sometimes we marry people who don't give back when we need something. You ask them for it and if it is not coming (and she is being extremely clear it won't), then you might need to see what divorcing her looks like. Because your needs will not be met here.

If you choose to stay, you will stay knowing that she doesn't intend to give you the validation you seek and she has told you to see a therapist.

Think of a swimmer struggling in the ocean.

When you speak of "answers", I see that as the swimmer making their way toward shore.

Certainly a great thing!

But the person who kept her (and the family) afloat until the answers came also deserves great honor. That is also a key role, and often an underappreciated one.

I'm having a hard time containing my frustration.

Here is the loop. For a loop to end, one of us has to make a change.

Yesterday we talked, and I shared, openly, vulnerabilities I have. I grew up in an alcoholic home. I had a LOT of responsibility from an early age and often felt like I was in over my head. I clung to people, hoping someone would intervene at times. She knows this. I told her, the repeated threats to leave me incite a ton of anxiety and make it hard to NOT be defensive.

I also told her, during her depression stretches (years), she said a lot of big, bad things about me, and still does at times now that she is recovering. I am vulnerable to this. I feel deeply defective. I need some positivity and reassurance to undo those things in between.

We talked for an hour, and we TALKED. It was good.

Later, watching TV with youngest kid, and she says she doesn't feel well and wants to go to bed. Me and kid say goodnight and keep watching TV. 30 minutes later she comes out, angry, that me and kid are still up. It's ridiculous, it's late. OK, kid also sleeps really late because there is no morning schedule at home (I didn't say that). I was to blame for the late night, and for not working with her to have time in the evening. I said, we never talked about that tonight. She said my actions indicated there was no possibilitiy of it. She said there was no working with me. I apologized several times, said we would prioritize a change and went to bed (separate room).

At 1AM she wakes me to tell me we don't have a future together and there is no working with me. She wants separate lives. When I say, "No one read it that you going to bed because you didn't feel well meant the night was over for everyone. You could have said something different to alert me to what you wanted." To that I was told I'm way too defensive.

I said, You woke me at 1am to tell me we don't have a future together, and you voice that I am too defensive? I just told you this is a vulnerability for me. I've said it for years, but said it clearly from an emotional place tonight. I'm not yelling. I'm not angry. But I'm also not solely to blame for kid being up late either.

THAT became, "The list of my faults and errors is so long. You don't ever stop. You don't ever let up. You're too defensive to talk to."

Holy. Crap.

I don't think she is manipulative. I think she is mentally ill and broken.

ANYTHING I say that counters what she is saying is regarded as an attack and "tearing her down" and "treating her like an emotional punching bag". So.... I keep a lot of stuff to myself. Then she says there is no emotional connection.

Last night I thought about how much I wanted to stay married. Then I suddenly asked myself, "If I won the lottery, would I stay married?" That.... Is very hard to answer. I don't know that I would. I think I like my home and lifestyle more than anything right now.

But, I also believe love and marriage is a choice. And "in sickness and in health" matters for mental illness too.

I'll admit I haven't read through this whole thread. What caught me is this overwhelming need for validation. I understand that. You do need to give yourself validation tho for all you've done. You can't demand it, expect it or ask for it from your wife. She is who she is. I'm not saying you haven't been through a lot, you have helped her. Maybe she likes the energy vibe from her friends and needs that. Hugs

She is mad the kids stayed up watching tv late during summer break? Please. Why such outrage? I assume you work and she doesn’t. The kid goes to school and she doesn’t. Now when you and your kid are off, you want to stay up. So what? She is off all the time and has free schedule to do what she wants but she demands everyone accommodates her schedule. Please. There is no way to win with this woman. You have a patience of a saint

It wasn't about the staying up late. It was about her wanting you to read her mind - she meant something different. You are right about that. The problem is in the communication, and communication problems are huge in a marriage.

It sounds like she has a way to go as far as recovering from issues with her mental health, and this really comes down to her being willing and able to continue to work on those issues or not. You seem to be trying to find answers and willing to take an honest look at your side of this situation. Good work in taking it to her and talking about it.

Rome wasn't built in a day, but it was a process with everyone on board and working. What you have to decide is whether you are both on the same page in starting and continuing that process, or whether that process is even going to happen. It won't happen quickly, and it very well may require both of you to be willing to work on your own issues individually with a therapist and even perhaps some marriage therapy.

With my husband, we were both on board, both in individual therapy, both willing to see our part in the dynamic, and both able to make the changes needed to improve our communication and personal boundaries (really the root of the matter). It took a few years of working on it - it wasn't a quick change. But it did happen and our marriage greatly improved. But it takes two.

Thanks everybody.

Thanks ArtleyWilkins. I am of the same mindset.

I honestly see the disticntion between who she is, and the effect of mental illness. I love who she is.

RDMercer

I don't want to stir the cauldron, but from what I read it seems like your wife was waited on hand and foot during the entire term of her long illness, and it has given rise to a sense of entitlement within her. I mean for many years she didn't have to work, had zero responsibility towards the kids, she was entirely focused on herself. Most people are not so privileged. I've seen people with terminal cancer who had to go to work in order to put the bread on the table. Compared to the hardships most people go through, with chronic and debilitating illnesses, your wife has had it quite easy. Thanks to you. Now she is behaving rather narcissistically. I don’t think it'll help you to discuss things with her. I strongly recommend therapy for you. You obviously need a place to vent your frustration and do a bit of soul-searching. If I have entirely misread your situation then I apologise. I have no desire to offend you or your family. I just noticed a few red flags, that's all.

I carried a lot of the responsibility for a long time.

I'm in therapy to just vent. After 2 years, I don't know if it helped. Maybe focused on the negative too much.

Our oldest is in HS. A few months ago he said, I think you think you aren't much of a man because mom gets so angry at you. But I've seen you take her anger for long stretches, maybe hours, say little back, then be fully there for her when she needed you if she got really sick an hour later. You have more emotional control and you're more of a man than anyone I know. And you spent time with us, did homework with us, made meals, whatever, since years.

LAST NIGHT, youngest kid voiced how cranky mom is with us lately, and how much time she spends with her new friends. I said, well, mom was stuck home for a long time. She needs friends. I also said, "Mom is cranky at me, not you. I haven't been very emotionally supportive lately."

Kid said, "I've been alone a lot since kindergarten, and now she's feeling better, I'm still alone." Kid also said, "Maybe mom is like this because you aren't there for her enough, butDad, you do a lot. You work. You fix the house and the cars. You take us to sports or just to get out of the house, you drove me to school everyday. You cook. Maybe mom gets to have friends, but she could help you some too. You can't do everything and still, like, be there for her all the time too. I don't think she should be cranky at you."

I've never said a word to them about this stuff.

I'm floored today. Just floored. The kid that said that is yooooung.

That sounds really rough and I can’t imagine what you’re going through. I’d get super frustrated in your position.

That being said, the words that are in my mind aren’t mine to say. I can say it doesn’t look your wife is participating in your marriage and I would agree that she is behaving narcissistically. Have you heard the term codependent?

Oh my gosh, yes, I'm familiar with codependency.

I've done what had to be done for a long time. I'm not looking to take on more.

I recall the rest of your story with your wife vividly. Sorry, but your wife is and always has been very selfish in this relationship. This is no different than before. You’ve told her in the past that you need more intimacy. She said you’re going to get what you get from her and no more.. She doesn’t want to give to you or to accommodate your needs. Selfish. At this stage I would divorce her. **** that. Who needs to be treated so poorly after all you’ve done for her. You’re her doormat to vomit all over. You’ve given and you’ve given in this relationship with very little return. Divorce.